landrider

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by David Reuteler

BDoug Huffman said:

"Filmboard" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...
||
| Forum leader out there. . . I promise I'll stop with the
| long posts.

"Forum leader"? You misunderstand - a lot.

no, no. that would be me. the man behind the curtain.

now be nice or i'll pull your access.
--
david reuteler [email hidden] [/B]

If you guys paid attention you might have noticed that she posted from [email hidden]. Perhaps thats why she mentioned the forum leader, she may not have even known that she was posting outside the forum.

Dan.

BanditManDan said:

If you guys paid attention you might have noticed that she
posted from [email hidden]. Perhaps thats
why she mentioned the forum leader, she may not have even
known that she was posting outside the forum.

question me again and i'll revoke your permission to post.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

BanditManDan said:

If you guys paid attention you might have noticed that
she posted from [email hidden]. Perhaps
thats why she mentioned the forum leader, she may not
have even known that she was posting outside the forum.

question me again and i'll revoke your permission to post.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Actually, you should threaten to revoke your own permission
to post, b/c think of the resulting dearth of wit and
sagacity around here. ;-p

-B

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by David Reuteler

BBanditManDan said:

If you guys paid attention you might have noticed that she
posted from [email hidden]. Perhaps thats
why she mentioned the forum leader, she may not have even
known that she was posting outside the forum.

question me again and i'll revoke your permission to post.
--
david reuteler [email hidden] [/B]

Opps, I humbly appologize.

Badger_South said:

Actually, you should threaten to revoke your own
permission to post, b/c think of the resulting dearth of
wit and sagacity around here. ;-p

"Dead! And so great an artist!" -- Nero
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

Badger_South said:

Actually, you should threaten to revoke your own
permission to post, b/c think of the resulting dearth of
wit and sagacity around here. ;-p

"Dead! And so great an artist!" -- Nero

Perhaps you could appeal to their sympathy by dressing in
black and appearing humble, they'd let you live? ;-D

-B

On 19 May 2004 17:10:13 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Doug Huffman said:

"Filmboard" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
| Forum leader out there. . . I promise I'll stop with
| the long posts.
"Forum leader"? You misunderstand - a lot.

no, no. that would be me. the man behind the curtain. now
be nice or i'll pull your access.

Why would you want to pool my axes?
--
Rick Onanian

On 19 May 2004 17:10:13 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Doug Huffman said:

"Filmboard" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
| Forum leader out there. . . I promise I'll stop with
| the long posts.
"Forum leader"? You misunderstand - a lot.

no, no. that would be me. the man behind the curtain. now
be nice or i'll pull your access.

Why would you want to pool my axes?
--
Rick Onanian

I'm not fearful of being roasted and eaten, or feeling silly. What I fear is that I'm not likely to get an intelligent answer, unfettered by bias and mean-spiritedness.

Filmboard said:

I'm not fearful of being roasted and eaten, or feeling
silly. What I fear is that I'm not likely to get an
intelligent answer, unfettered by bias and mean-
spiritedness.

I'm curious on how you feel about other infomercials you see
on TV. Do you see one of those infomercial's for a set of
knives and think "Wow, this knife with a cheap looking
plastic handle just sliced through concrete yet still cut
through a tomatoe must have a super strong alloy that no
other knife in the manufacturer world has discovered, and
all for 4 easy payments of 19.95"?

If a infomercial product really was so wonderful,
revolutionary, and economical why isn't it on the store
shelves selling millions? I would say if a infomercial
product was in a store, it would not succeed because
consumers would be able to see the product up close and find
it is of low quality, overpriced, of dubious value, and
worse yet for the manufacturer easily returnable for a full
refund. Bad products are sold on infomercials for a reason.

This website may be of help for you.

infomercialscams.cominfomercialscams.comOpen ↗

--
---
Eric Yagerlener remove "usenet" from email address to reply

Quoted message said:

If a infomercial product really was so wonderful,
revolutionary, and economical why isn't it on the store
shelves selling millions? I would say

Not everybody has access to the same marketing
resources. That doesn't excuse the quality of most such
products, though...

Quoted message said:

if a infomercial product was in a store, it would not
succeed because consumers would be able to see the product
up close and find it is of low quality, overpriced, of
dubious value, and worse yet for the manufacturer easily
returnable for a full refund. Bad products are sold on
infomercials for a reason.

Infomercial products do end up on store shelves, after the
infomercial gets tired. Go to Wal Mart (especially the
cooking appliance aisle) and note the "As Seen On TV"
labels. People buy the stuff anyway; they sell a lot cheaper
on store shelves, and people figure it's worth a try for
that price, and they can try it today anyway...
--
Rick Onanian

Quoted message said:

I'm curious on how you feel about other infomercials you see on TV.

Okay, here's the thing. I guess this shows how we all make assumptions, while the reality may be totally different. For example I thought I was posting in a controlled forum on cyclingforums.com, but I see that I've been posting through their Bike Café forum into a usenet group. Now, another assumption has been made that I saw an infomercial and dialed up some 800 number, I presume, credit card in hand. Nope, I've never done that. I don't know what infomercial you're talking about.

One day I did an Internet search on something (can't remember what right now, but not bicycles), and I think it took me to some kind of World Riders site about a CA couple on a world bicycle trek. Somewhere in there I saw something about a Landrider, and a few days later I remembered the name and did a search, and found their web site. I'd already had a real waste of money when I bought the only adult size bicydle at the local Sears store, so I eventually placed an online order.

Now I'd be the last person to say that I've only made smart purchases in my life. I can immediately think of about $30-40K spent on two automobiles that were a disgrace to powered locomotion. I once lost money on some land. I took a real beating on some Ashton-Tate stock one year. So, if it turns out I've made a horrible mistake here, so be it. You know what, I can afford the $400 it cost me, and I have no way of measuring just what I should get out of a bicycle per dollar. If I learn about something better by participating in this forum. Great. But on the other hand, I've read comments about the Landrider that so far, in my direct experience, just aren't so. There are people who've said that you're in real trouble if you stop fast, because you'll be in a high gear, or who are afraid to think what will happen if the shift takes place while standing on the pedal. Now maybe it's because I'm a different sort of cycler than the rest of this crowd, but the point I started to make when I first chimed in, is that there seems to be a lot of animosity without direct knowledge about this bicycle. None of those things have yet happened to me. I ride several miles every morning, I come back and blow off the dust with an air compressor, wipe it down with a soft cloth, apply some light oil, and the thing keeps working; and I don't feel lousy like I did with the other bicycle.

At what point can you stop worrying about whether I or someone else was gullible, or could have gotten something better for less from the non-existent bike shop in my community? At what point can people on this and other groups stop their vitriolic attack on someone who asks about auto shifting, treating them like they must be pathetic brain-dead misfits, and rather explain logically to those who ask, what a better alternative might be and why? I've had plenty of stick shift autos (a couple of Fiat Spyders stick in my mind). Four or Five on the floor is not something to fear either, but I bet a bunch of you, like myself, have had some cars with auto transmissions.

It was years ago that it became second nature to me to set the lens aperture and shutter speed on a camera without using a meter and get a good shot in most lighting conditions, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying using an automatic camera. Because I do professional work, I insist that my automatic has manual controls as well, and a good eyepiece for focusing. But if you want to take photos while you bicycle with some little tyke of a camera that you have to hold at arms length so you can try to frame the shot on a poorly lit LCD screen; I'm confident you're getting a decent shot with your fully automatic that satisfies you, even if I could never use one of those for my own work, so I think it's okay for you to use a Sony with a floppy disk in it, barrel distortion in the lens and a center-bright flash with rapid edge fall-off. Because your use is different than mine. My cycling needs and probably most of the others inquiring about Landriders is different than yours.

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort." -- Albright

Filmboard said:

Quoted message said:

I'm curious on how you feel about other infomercials you
see on TV.

Okay, here's the thing. I guess this shows how we all make
assumptions, while the reality may be totally different.
For example I thought I was posting in a controlled forum
on cyclingforums.com, but I see that I've been posting
through their Bike Café forum into a usenet group. Now,
another assumption has been made that I saw an infomercial
and dialed up some 800 number, I presume, credit card in
hand. Nope, I've never done that. I don't know what
infomercial you're talking about.

One day I did an Internet search on something (can't
remember what right now, but not bicycles), and I think it
took me to some kind of World Riders site about a CA
couple on a world bicycle trek. Somewhere in there I saw
something about a Landrider, and a few days later I
remembered the name and did a search, and found their web
site. I'd already had a real waste of money when I bought
the only adult size bicydle at the local Sears store, so I
eventually placed an online order.

Now I'd be the last person to say that I've only made
smart purchases in my life. I can immediately think of
about $30-40K spent on two automobiles that were a
disgrace to powered locomotion. I once lost money on some
land. I took a real beating on some Ashton-Tate stock one
year. So, if it turns out I've made a horrible mistake
here, so be it. You know what, I can afford the $400 it
cost me, and I have no way of measuring just what I should
get out of a bicycle per dollar. If I learn about
something better by participating in this forum. Great.
But on the other hand, I've read comments about the
Landrider that so far, in my direct experience, just
aren't so. There are people who've said that you're in
real trouble if you stop fast, because you'll be in a high
gear, or who are afraid to think what will happen if the
shift takes place while standing on the pedal. Now maybe
it's because I'm a different sort of cycler than the rest
of this crowd, but the point I started to make when I
first chimed in, is that there seems to be a lot of
animosity without direct knowledge about this bicycle.
None of those things have yet happened to me. I ride
several miles every morning, I come back and blow off the
dust with an air compressor, wipe it down with a soft
cloth, apply some light oil, and the thing keeps working;
and I don't feel lousy like I did with the other bicycle.

At what point can you stop worrying about whether I or
someone else was gullible, or could have gotten something
better for less from the non- existent bike shop in my
community? At what point can people on this and other
groups stop their vitriolic attack on someone who asks
about auto shifting, treating them like they must be
pathetic brain-dead misfits, and rather explain logically
to those who ask, what a better alternative might be and
why? I've had plenty of stick shift autos (a couple of
Fiat Spyders stick in my mind). Four or Five on the floor
is not something to fear either, but I bet a bunch of you,
like myself, have had some cars with auto transmissions.

It was years ago that it became second nature to me to set
the lens aperture and shutter speed on a camera without
using a meter and get a good shot in most lighting
conditions, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying using
an automatic camera. Because I do professional work, I
insist that my automatic has manual controls as well, and
a good eyepiece for focusing. But if you want to take
photos while you bicycle with some little tyke of a camera
that you have to hold at arms length so you can try to
frame the shot on a poorly lit LCD screen; I'm confident
you're getting a decent shot with your fully automatic
that satisfies you, even if I could never use one of those
for my own work, so I think it's okay for you to use a
Sony with a floppy disk in it, barrel distortion in the
lens and a center-bright flash with rapid edge fall-off.
Because your use is different than mine. My cycling needs
and probably most of the others inquiring about Landriders
is different than yours.

This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed comment
has no place in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )

Bill "get emotional or get out" S.

Quoted post said:

This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed comment
has no place in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )

Bill "get emotional or get out" S. [/B]

Okay, so here's another thing. . .
All you people with your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't measure up to my standard is that while you're holding your shutter button down half way waiting for all the automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure and focus), the good shot has long passed. The relaxed candid look in your friends' faces, the great composition of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you and a large percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure are way beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe that; I just think for some good reason, you like the idea of pointing and shooting, keeping it simple. By the same token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a concern to me. There will be others down the road that are intrigued by it too. It's not for you, but you know, it may be just the right thing to get them out on the road, to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike paths. You won't get that to happen if you try to remain elitists. F.

Filmboard said:

Quoted message said:

This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed
comment has

no place > in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )

Quoted message said:

Bill "get emotional or get out" S.

Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with
your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though
your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't
measure up to my standard is that while you're holding
your shutter button down half way waiting for all the
automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure
and focus), the good shot has long passed. The relaxed
candid look in your friends' faces, the great composition
of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you and a large
percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear
message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure
are way beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe
that; I just think for some good reason, you like the idea
of pointing and shooting, keeping it simple. By the same
token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a
bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a
concern to me. There will be others down the road that are
intrigued by it too. It's not for you, but you know, it
may be just the right thing to get them out on the road,
to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to
eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike
paths. You won't get that to happen if you try to remain
elitists. F.

Not knowing when to shut up. NOW you're getting the
hang of this!

Bill "non-attribution quoting style notwithstanding" S.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by S O R N I

Not knowing when to shut up. NOW you're getting the
hang of this!

Bill "non-attribution quoting style notwithstanding" S.

Touché.

"Filmboard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with
your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though
your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't
measure up to my standard is that while you're holding
your shutter button down half way waiting for all the
automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure
and focus), the good shot has long passed. The relaxed
candid look in your friends' faces, the great composition
of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you and a large
percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear
message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure
are way beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe
that; I just think for some good reason, you like the idea
of pointing and shooting, keeping it simple. By the same
token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a
bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a
concern to me. There will be others down the road that are
intrigued by it too. It's not for you, but you know, it
may be just the right thing to get them out on the road,
to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to
eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike
paths. You won't get that to happen if you try to remain
elitists. F.

It's an apt analogy, but you've applied it backwards.

Imagine an infomercial that touted automatic cameras. That
said that people don't take pictures because focusing is too
hard, because the concepts of aperture and shutter speed are
beyond their understanding. That went on for an hour
explaining why traditional cameras are no good, and
automatic cameras are much better in every way.

PLUS -- and here's the kicker -- people are always running
out of film.

So they offer you a fixed-focus, plastic-lens point-and-
shoot camera with the **revolutionary** **new** **feature**
that is can load two rolls of film at the same time!

All for only $199.95!

That's how we feel about the Landrider. It's everything they
*don't* tell you about. The cheap, heavy frame. The lack of
a variety of frame sizes, making perfect fit a [censored] shoot.
The generally low-end complement of parts and fittings. The
fact that a bike that's better in every way can be had for
less money at a local bike shop.

The extra-special gizmo that makes the Landrider so special
solves a problem that's non-existent for most people once
they've spent an hour on a bike. If ease of shifting is
really an issue, buying a quality bike using one of
Shimano's Nexus series of internally-geared hubs, that can
be shifted while stationary and serviced at any bike shop,
is a much better solution.

The price you pay for a Landrider pays for marketing and, it
seems likely, immense markups on each unit sold. This bike,
if made by Huffy and sold at WalMart, would retail for $129.

RichC

"Filmboard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with
your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though
your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't
measure up to my standard is that while you're holding
your shutter button down half way waiting for all the
automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure
and focus), the good shot has long passed. The relaxed
candid look in your friends' faces, the great composition
of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you and a large
percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear
message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure
are way beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe
that; I just think for some good reason, you like the idea
of pointing and shooting, keeping it simple. By the same
token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a
bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a
concern to me. There will be others down the road that are
intrigued by it too. It's not for you, but you know, it
may be just the right thing to get them out on the road,
to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to
eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike
paths. You won't get that to happen if you try to remain
elitists. F.

It's an apt analogy, but you've applied it backwards.

Imagine an infomercial that touted automatic cameras. That
said that people don't take pictures because focusing is too
hard, because the concepts of aperture and shutter speed are
beyond their understanding. That went on for an hour
explaining why traditional cameras are no good, and
automatic cameras are much better in every way.

PLUS -- and here's the kicker -- people are always running
out of film.

So they offer you a fixed-focus, plastic-lens point-and-
shoot camera with the **revolutionary** **new** **feature**
that is can load two rolls of film at the same time!

All for only $199.95!

That's how we feel about the Landrider. It's everything they
*don't* tell you about. The cheap, heavy frame. The lack of
a variety of frame sizes, making perfect fit a [censored] shoot.
The generally low-end complement of parts and fittings. The
fact that a bike that's better in every way can be had for
less money at a local bike shop.

The extra-special gizmo that makes the Landrider so special
solves a problem that's non-existent for most people once
they've spent an hour on a bike. If ease of shifting is
really an issue, buying a quality bike using one of
Shimano's Nexus series of internally-geared hubs, that can
be shifted while stationary and serviced at any bike shop,
is a much better solution.

The price you pay for a Landrider pays for marketing and, it
seems likely, immense markups on each unit sold. This bike,
if made by Huffy and sold at WalMart, would retail for $129.

RichC

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Rich Clark
It's an apt analogy, but you've applied it backwards.

Imagine an infomercial . . . . The lack of a variety of frame sizes, making perfect fit a [censored] shoot. . . The fact that a bike that's better in every way can be had for less money at a local bike shop.

Here's where you've got the upper hand on me, I guess. I still have no knowledge of an infomercial. But it's becoming clear that's what has most of you so bent out of shape. As for lack of frame sizes, I had my choice of 12" 14" 15" 17" 18" 19.5" and 22" when I placed my online order (some of those are positioned as women's and some as men's); how many more would the LBS provide me? I don't know. And I've made it abundantly clear in the previous postings, there is no LBS in my community, and if I have to travel a hundred miles it's no longer a "L"BS, in my opinion. I don't expect you to use one of these bikes, or even recommend it; but it would be nice if it wasn't totally misrepresented here. But the public is misrepresented about digital cameras every day (perhaps not in an infomercial). Ooo, so you got a 5 megapixel camera; if its acquisition is on a single chip smaller than half of your little pinkie fingernail, you have virtually no correct color and a very sharp tonal curve in your photos, and you have a camera that is grossly overpriced for what it delivers. And if it's fully automatic, it likely stops the lens down first and then adjusts to the light with the shutter speed next, so that on a cloudy day or in the shade when you hold it out in front of you at arms length because they neglected to insert a $2 eyepiece, you just can't get as sharp a photo as you should simply because you can't hold it steady out there. If you by chance have one of these, you've been misled and are just as gullible; only an entire industry has gulled you, with more finesse than in this infomercial you refer to.

"Filmboard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed
comment has no

place

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in this forum. TYVM. (;-) ) Bill "get emotional or get
out" S.

Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with
your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though
your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't
measure up to my standard is that while

Be fair with the analogies. What is the ***same-priced***
alternative that is vastly superior to my point-and-shoot.

Matthew