Is coffee bad?

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> "bc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>>
>>
>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>
>>> Myself, I find that after having a cup or two of coffee every day for
>>> a
>>> week, I always want a day or two off from it, and sometimes I take a
>>> week or two off. When I first met my wife (we were both in college),
>>> she was one of those people who drank coffee all day long - we
>>> calculated 8-12 cups per day. She began having some health issues
>>> and
>>> her doctor told her to get off coffee - her detox wasn't much fun for
>>> her or anyone around her. 🙂 She now drinks 2 cups or so per day.
>>
>> My wife is definitely sensitive to caffein, and feels much better
>> after
>> detoxing some years ago. For me though, decaf is just not the same.
>
> The current compromise in our house is a mix of caffeine and decaf
> coffee. That let's us drink more of it. Decaf is definitely not the
> same, and the half and half mix is my wife's choice, not mine, and I'm
> not thrilled with it, but it's not nearly as bad as having to drink
> decaf.
>

Steve, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but a home roaser
will produce a far superior coffee. When I used to do roaster demos, I
would roast up some decaf and include it in the samples. Most people
couldn't tell the difference.

Decaf coffee is inherently damaged in the decaffeination process.
Therefore, to develop the flavor, it must be roasted more slowly and/or
at a lower temperature. It also stales much faster than regular coffee.
I can roast a good quality, organic decaf and serve it to a group of
people and maybe one or two will catch it right away. Most people will
figure it out after awhile when they don't get the traditional caffeine
"buzz".

Coffee lovers who have to give up their beloved java, always resent it.
When you can present an alternative like this, they often get very
excited. I was selling a $5,000 machine and I still received a lot of
inquiries for just this purpose. But with the variety of home roasters
available now, there is no excuse for giving up coffee flavor when
drinking decaf. You just have to "roll you own".

Not only will your wife love you for it, your friends will too. My wife
often roasts up small barches of coffee and gives it to friends She went
to get her hair cut yesterday and gave her hairdresser some fresh
roasted coffee. That guarantees some extra attention and service.

Lee Michaels

One more comment;

You can buy some very high grade decaf green beans. When this stuff is
freshly roasted to a little lighter than a traditional decaf roast, the
flavor is fully present. You won't actually save money with this
approach, but both you and the missus will be happier.

Very interesting thread, gentlemen. Another question or two before I
present the idea of buying a home roaster to my wife.

One "show stopper" for us when it comes to coffee makers is the carafe and
heating element or lack thereof that holds the brewed beverage. My wife
and I long ago realized we didn't like the taste of coffee that, after
brewing, was continually being heated, so we settled on coffee makers that
dispense the coffee into an insulated carafe without a heating element
below it.

Do you coffee experts think this makes as much difference as we do?
Particularly in the summer, we often let the coffee cool and drink iced
coffee, and even when we like it hot, it's still plenty hot for a few
hours in the insulated carafe.

If the insulated carafe style is deemed "worthy", can anyone recommend
something that grinds and then brews in a single machine that has an
insulated carafe? I don't think I've come across one of these before.
Right now, although we used to grind ourselves, we don't because we
couldn't find a suitable machine. Grinding ourselves would be a good
first step for us, I think.

That goes without saying. You only need to brew the coffee once. Anything
after that is cruel and unusual punishment. Around here, coffee is rarely
around longer than what is immediately consumed.

If it is necessary to actually store the coffee, we have some big airpots.
There are insulated containers with an airpump in the head. These will keep
coffee hot for hours and you can pump the handle on top to fill your cup. We
usually do this for company.

And if you are not using whole beans, you are using old, stale coffee. As
for a all-in-one coffee machine, just brew into the glass pitcher. Then pour
into the thermos or other insulated container. Anything that I have seen
that brews the coffee directly into an insulated container was quite pricey.

Runs With Knives said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> writes:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Steve, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but a home roaser will
produce a far superior coffee.

In most cases: Yes. But home roasting is not for the faint-of-heart,
IMO. Roasting coffee generates a significant amount of smoke and
chaff.

Disagree with this. The small air roaster generates a little smoke when I'm
roasting dark, and in fact if I roast for drip, it doesn't generate any
smoke (though there is a "coffee roasting" scent)

Quoted message said:

I buy fresh-roasted (while I wait, in fact) coffee, a pound at a
time. It takes me a bit more than two weeks to go through a pound.
I've found that the "bloom is off the rose," as it were, somewhere
during the 1-2 week period.

Tom at sweetmarias website for example believes that many beans peak
after they get time to degas a little.

Quoted message said:

. Brewing at the proper temperature: Water at 195F to 205F hitting
the basket (most [inexpensive] auto drip coffee makers have
insufficiently hot brew water--particularly those with a
warming plate.)

Yep. For this reason, I prefer the press to a drip machine. Another thing
I found worked well was something like the "swiss gold" method -- I simply
took the cone out of a drip machine, loaded it up, and held it over the cup.

Quoted message said:

. Proper brew time. This is trickier. Ideally, for brewed
coffee, the water won't be in contact with the grounds for more
than about five minutes.

(-; two words -- french press.

Quoted message said:

. Never let brewed coffee sit on a warming plate. Get it into
a (pre-warmed) insulated carafe immediately. Better yet: Brew
only what you're going to drink right away.

Yep.

Quoted message said:

. Good water. (IME Brita water filters usually produce acceptable
water from city taps or well water.)

Especially with espresso. Had boilers on espresso machines die because of
lime scale from tap water (even with Brita -- I suppose I didn't change the
filters enough). I always use bottled water now.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Steve Freides said:

Very interesting thread, gentlemen. Another question or two before I
present the idea of buying a home roaster to my wife.

One "show stopper" for us when it comes to coffee makers is the carafe
and heating element or lack thereof that holds the brewed beverage. My
wife and I long ago realized we didn't like the taste of coffee that,
after brewing, was continually being heated,

Leave it on the heater and it goes bad really quickly.

Quoted message said:

so we settled on coffee makers that dispense the coffee into an insulated
carafe without a heating element below it.

I agree with Lee here -- you could just get a thermos.

Quoted message said:

Do you coffee experts think this makes as much difference as we do?

I think actively heating coffee makes it undrinkable really quickly. So
you're dead right.

But I also think you've got some priorities wrong (from the myopic point of
view of someone who wants good coffee).

Extraction temperature is important. As another poster pointed out, very
few drip machines do this right.

I'd suggest getting a machine from a reputable vendor. I've purchased from
1st-line.com, and these guys are good. They only sell good quality equipment.

Take a look at these, they may interest you:

http://1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/homedrip.htm

Unless you're particularly partial to the all-in-one solution, I'd recommend
a french press plus a burr grinder instead, but it's your coffee.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> writes:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Very interesting thread, gentlemen. Another question or two before I
present the idea of buying a home roaster to my wife.

Check the Google archives for alt.coffee and the reviews at
coffeegeek.com before buying. I think Sweet Maria's may have
forums/reviews, as well.

Quoted message said:

One "show stopper" for us when it comes to coffee makers is the carafe
and heating element or lack thereof that holds the brewed beverage. My
wife and I long ago realized we didn't like the taste of coffee that,
after brewing, was continually being heated,

That's because, as I noted in a follow-up to Lee, warming plates
destroy the coffee.

Quoted message said:

so we settled on coffee
makers that dispense the coffee into an insulated carafe without a
heating element below it.

That possibly has two advantages, actually. The most obvious is the
coffee isn't being destroyed by being constantly heated. The other,
less obvious, reason is that many drip coffee makers with a warming
plate share a single heating element for the warming plate *and*
heating the brew water. These, almost w/o exception, do not produce
sufficiently hot brew water.

Quoted message said:

Do you coffee experts think this makes as much difference as we do?

No question.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

If the insulated carafe style is deemed "worthy", can anyone recommend
something that grinds and then brews in a single machine that has an
insulated carafe?

Again: Check the reviews at coffeegeek. I think the Cuisinart Grind
& Brew gets generally good reviews. But it's grinding with a "whirly
blade" grinder (not really a "grinder," per se), which is
sub-optimal. Better, far better, than buying pre-ground, tho.

Quoted message said:

I don't think I've come across one of these before.
Right now, although we used to grind ourselves, we don't because we
couldn't find a suitable machine. Grinding ourselves would be a good
first step for us, I think.

I grind with a Capresso Infinity. Filter the water with a Brita.
Brew with a Cuisinart Brew Central using a metal-mesh, gold-tone
filter.

Then again, you could always go with a super-auto. The Jura-Capresso
Impressa Z5 grinds, brews, heats/froths milk, does any of about, I
dunno, 6 or 8 different drinks at the push of a button, has
selectable brew strength... all for only about US$3,000 or so 😉.

--
Jim Seymour | "It is wrong always, everywhere and
WARNING: The "From:" address is a | for everyone to believe anything upon
spam trap. DON'T USE IT! Use: | insufficient evidence."
[email hidden] | - W. K. Clifford, ca. 1876

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Runs With Knives said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> writes:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Steve, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but a home
roaser will
produce a far superior coffee.

In most cases: Yes. But home roasting is not for the faint-of-heart,
IMO. Roasting coffee generates a significant amount of smoke and
chaff.

Disagree with this. The small air roaster generates a little smoke
when I'm
roasting dark, and in fact if I roast for drip, it doesn't generate
any
smoke (though there is a "coffee roasting" scent)

Quoted message said:

I buy fresh-roasted (while I wait, in fact) coffee, a pound at a
time. It takes me a bit more than two weeks to go through a pound.
I've found that the "bloom is off the rose," as it were, somewhere
during the 1-2 week period.

Tom at sweetmarias website for example believes that many beans peak
after they get time to degas a little.

Quoted message said:

. Brewing at the proper temperature: Water at 195F to 205F
hitting
the basket (most [inexpensive] auto drip coffee makers have
insufficiently hot brew water--particularly those with a
warming plate.)

Yep. For this reason, I prefer the press to a drip machine. Another
thing
I found worked well was something like the "swiss gold" method -- I
simply
took the cone out of a drip machine, loaded it up, and held it over
the cup.

Quoted message said:

. Proper brew time. This is trickier. Ideally, for brewed
coffee, the water won't be in contact with the grounds for more
than about five minutes.

(-; two words -- french press.

Quoted message said:

. Never let brewed coffee sit on a warming plate. Get it into
a (pre-warmed) insulated carafe immediately. Better yet: Brew
only what you're going to drink right away.

Yep.

Quoted message said:

. Good water. (IME Brita water filters usually produce
acceptable
water from city taps or well water.)

Especially with espresso. Had boilers on espresso machines die because
of
lime scale from tap water (even with Brita -- I suppose I didn't
change the
filters enough). I always use bottled water now.

Well, I'll reply to yours this time, Donovan.

We use a gold filter in our drip machine, not paper.

The water we use is RO filtered (reverse-osmosis) - it's about as pure
as one can get short of distilled water.

I'll read more, poke around more, and report back.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Quoted message said:

And no, I don't drink it...
I drink tea.
--

I know green tea is good. Unfortunately it doesn't taste like coffee.

True, but there is a whole world of teas. ;-)
I drink Earl Grays, hot.

Green Earl Gray (Grey?) tea is available. We get it at Trader Joe's.
Earl Grey is just the addition of a bit of oil of bergamot to the tea -
once can buy oil of bergamot separately although I've never done this
myself.

-S-

Quoted message said:

With cream and splenda......
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack
Nicholson

bc said:

Steve Freides said:

Myself, I find that after having a cup or two of coffee every day for a
week, I always want a day or two off from it, and sometimes I take a
week or two off. When I first met my wife (we were both in college),
she was one of those people who drank coffee all day long - we
calculated 8-12 cups per day. She began having some health issues and
her doctor told her to get off coffee - her detox wasn't much fun for
her or anyone around her. 🙂 She now drinks 2 cups or so per day.

My wife is definitely sensitive to caffein, and feels much better after
detoxing some years ago. For me though, decaf is just not the same.

- bc

After I read about the process to remove the caffeine I decided I'd
never drink it again.

--
Is this thing on?

Quoting OmManiPadmeOmelet:

Quoted message said:

But, I don't like green tea! :-P
It tastes wierd.

I don't care for the taste much myself. Unsweetened, it tastes weak
and bitter. Sweetened (with Splenda), it just tastes like a cup of
hot Splenda water to me.

With a generous squeeze of fresh lemon, it's not that bad though.
Steve's suggestion about the Earl of Grey (bergamot) flavored green
tea doesn't sound like a bad idea either.

I drink a few cups a week; generally when I just don't feel quite
motivated to lift for whatever reason. It seems to help me to get my
[censored] in gear, moreso than either black tea or coffee would.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Steve Freides said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

>
> And no, I don't drink it...
> I drink tea.
> --

I know green tea is good. Unfortunately it doesn't taste like coffee.

True, but there is a whole world of teas. ;-)
I drink Earl Grays, hot.

Green Earl Gray (Grey?) tea is available. We get it at Trader Joe's.
Earl Grey is just the addition of a bit of oil of bergamot to the tea -
once can buy oil of bergamot separately although I've never done this
myself.

-S-

But, I don't like green tea! :-P
It tastes wierd.

I prefer variations on black tea, of which there are many,
and it has it's own "medicinal" properties. :-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Suze suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious said:

Quoting OmManiPadmeOmelet:

Quoted message said:

But, I don't like green tea! :-P
It tastes wierd.

I don't care for the taste much myself. Unsweetened, it tastes weak
and bitter. Sweetened (with Splenda), it just tastes like a cup of
hot Splenda water to me.

Try matcha. Super fine powder mixed directly with water, the same as
in the Japanese tea ceremony. I don't guarantee you'll be fond of the
taste, but it will definitely be strong enough for you. The
psychoactive effectives are stronger, too.

"Suze" <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting OmManiPadmeOmelet:

Quoted message said:

But, I don't like green tea! :-P
It tastes wierd.

I don't care for the taste much myself. Unsweetened, it tastes weak
and bitter. Sweetened (with Splenda), it just tastes like a cup of
hot Splenda water to me.

I don't understand sweetener in tea or coffee - first of all, I don't
like articificial sweeteners and stay away from anything low-fat,
no-this or reduced-that. But sugar really changes the experience of
drinking tea. Lemon doesn't seem to ruin tea, neither does cream, and
likewise I don't find cream to ruin coffee, but sugar - yech. My
personal preference is for light cream in my cold coffee, nothing or
light cream in my hot coffee, and nothing in my tea.

Quoted message said:

With a generous squeeze of fresh lemon, it's not that bad though.
Steve's suggestion about the Earl of Grey (bergamot) flavored green
tea doesn't sound like a bad idea either.

Our favorite green tea is Japanese "sushi bar style" tea - I don't know
exactly what makes it "sushi bar style" but the Japanese have several
kinds of green tea and that's the one we prefer. (I think maybe there's
some sort of rice in it - will have to check...) Japanese friends of
ours get it for us from a Japanese grocery store, and in the summer we
usually use an old coffee carafe to brew up what we drink as iced green
tea. We mix and match, sometimes using all Japanese tea, something half
and half with plain American green tea, and sometimes throwing a Earl
Grey green tea bag into the mix. The variety is nice. We throw the tea
bags in and just leave them there for the day usually, generally using
2-3 tea bags for 8-10 cups of water, and it seems plenty strong.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

I drink a few cups a week; generally when I just don't feel quite
motivated to lift for whatever reason. It seems to help me to get my
[censored] in gear, moreso than either black tea or coffee would.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Suze suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious said:

Quoting OmManiPadmeOmelet:

Quoted message said:

But, I don't like green tea! :-P
It tastes wierd.

I don't care for the taste much myself. Unsweetened, it tastes weak
and bitter. Sweetened (with Splenda), it just tastes like a cup of
hot Splenda water to me.

With a generous squeeze of fresh lemon, it's not that bad though.
Steve's suggestion about the Earl of Grey (bergamot) flavored green
tea doesn't sound like a bad idea either.

I drink a few cups a week; generally when I just don't feel quite
motivated to lift for whatever reason. It seems to help me to get my
[censored] in gear, moreso than either black tea or coffee would.

As I am well aware of the benefits of green tea, I take a green tea
extract capsule as part of my pre-workout supplements...

And you are right. It gets you moving!

This way I don't have to taste it...

There are a couple of different brands on the market of the extract
capsule that are quite effective. Check Sun Harvest or Whole Foods.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Quoting JMW:

Quoted message said:

Try matcha. Super fine powder mixed directly with water, the same as
in the Japanese tea ceremony. I don't guarantee you'll be fond of the
taste, but it will definitely be strong enough for you. The
psychoactive effectives are stronger, too.

Thanks -- I may give it a go.

Quoting Steve Freides:

Quoted message said:

I don't understand sweetener in tea or coffee - first of all, I don't
like articificial sweeteners and stay away from anything low-fat,
no-this or reduced-that.

I don't really care for any of them except for Splenda, and in this
case am basically using it to cover up the taste 🙂.

Quoted message said:

But sugar really changes the experience of
drinking tea. Lemon doesn't seem to ruin tea, neither does cream, and
likewise I don't find cream to ruin coffee, but sugar - yech.

Interesting; I've heard several tea lovers say this.

Quoted message said:

My
personal preference is for light cream in my cold coffee, nothing or
light cream in my hot coffee, and nothing in my tea.

Quoted message said:

With a generous squeeze of fresh lemon, it's not that bad though.
Steve's suggestion about the Earl of Grey (bergamot) flavored green
tea doesn't sound like a bad idea either.

Our favorite green tea is Japanese "sushi bar style" tea - I don't know
exactly what makes it "sushi bar style" but the Japanese have several
kinds of green tea and that's the one we prefer. (I think maybe there's

Thanks for the recommendation.

Quoting OmManiPadmeOmelet:

Quoted message said:

As I am well aware of the benefits of green tea, I take a green tea
extract capsule as part of my pre-workout supplements...

And you are right. It gets you moving!

This way I don't have to taste it...

There are a couple of different brands on the market of the extract
capsule that are quite effective. Check Sun Harvest or Whole Foods.

Okay, may do so. I already take a lot of supplements in pill form
though. Between the fish oil, and the electrolytes, vitamins, blah
blah...

Oh the other hand, what's a few more ?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Suze suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious said:

Quoting OmManiPadmeOmelet:

Quoted message said:

As I am well aware of the benefits of green tea, I take a green tea
extract capsule as part of my pre-workout supplements...

And you are right. It gets you moving!

This way I don't have to taste it...

There are a couple of different brands on the market of the extract
capsule that are quite effective. Check Sun Harvest or Whole Foods.

Okay, may do so. I already take a lot of supplements in pill form
though. Between the fish oil, and the electrolytes, vitamins, blah
blah...

Oh the other hand, what's a few more ?

<lol> I know exactly what you mean...... ;-D
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Lee Michaels said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>> "bc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>>
>>>> Myself, I find that after having a cup or two of coffee every day for
>>>> a
>>>> week, I always want a day or two off from it, and sometimes I take a
>>>> week or two off. When I first met my wife (we were both in college),
>>>> she was one of those people who drank coffee all day long - we
>>>> calculated 8-12 cups per day. She began having some health issues
>>>> and
>>>> her doctor told her to get off coffee - her detox wasn't much fun for
>>>> her or anyone around her. 🙂 She now drinks 2 cups or so per day.
>>>
>>> My wife is definitely sensitive to caffein, and feels much better
>>> after
>>> detoxing some years ago. For me though, decaf is just not the same.
>>
>> The current compromise in our house is a mix of caffeine and decaf
>> coffee. That let's us drink more of it. Decaf is definitely not the
>> same, and the half and half mix is my wife's choice, not mine, and I'm
>> not thrilled with it, but it's not nearly as bad as having to drink
>> decaf.
>>
>
> Steve, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but a home roaser
> will produce a far superior coffee. When I used to do roaster demos, I
> would roast up some decaf and include it in the samples. Most people
> couldn't tell the difference.
>
> Decaf coffee is inherently damaged in the decaffeination process.
> Therefore, to develop the flavor, it must be roasted more slowly and/or
> at a lower temperature. It also stales much faster than regular coffee.
> I can roast a good quality, organic decaf and serve it to a group of
> people and maybe one or two will catch it right away. Most people will
> figure it out after awhile when they don't get the traditional caffeine
> "buzz".
>
> Coffee lovers who have to give up their beloved java, always resent it.
> When you can present an alternative like this, they often get very
> excited. I was selling a $5,000 machine and I still received a lot of
> inquiries for just this purpose. But with the variety of home roasters
> available now, there is no excuse for giving up coffee flavor when
> drinking decaf. You just have to "roll you own".
>
> Not only will your wife love you for it, your friends will too. My wife
> often roasts up small barches of coffee and gives it to friends She went
> to get her hair cut yesterday and gave her hairdresser some fresh
> roasted coffee. That guarantees some extra attention and service.
>
> Lee Michaels
>
One more comment;

You can buy some very high grade decaf green beans. When this stuff is
freshly roasted to a little lighter than a traditional decaf roast, the
flavor is fully present. You won't actually save money with this
approach, but both you and the missus will be happier.

Very interesting thread, gentlemen. Another question or two before I
present the idea of buying a home roaster to my wife.

One "show stopper" for us when it comes to coffee makers is the carafe and
heating element or lack thereof that holds the brewed beverage. My wife
and I long ago realized we didn't like the taste of coffee that, after
brewing, was continually being heated, so we settled on coffee makers that
dispense the coffee into an insulated carafe without a heating element
below it.

Do you coffee experts think this makes as much difference as we do?
Particularly in the summer, we often let the coffee cool and drink iced
coffee, and even when we like it hot, it's still plenty hot for a few
hours in the insulated carafe.

If the insulated carafe style is deemed "worthy", can anyone recommend
something that grinds and then brews in a single machine that has an
insulated carafe? I don't think I've come across one of these before.
Right now, although we used to grind ourselves, we don't because we
couldn't find a suitable machine. Grindibong ourselves would be a good
first step for us, I think.

That goes without saying. You only need to brew the coffee once. Anything
after that is cruel and unusual punishment. Around here, coffee is rarely
around longer than what is immediately consumed.

If it is necessary to actually store the coffee, we have some big airpots.
There are insulated containers with an airpump in the head. These will keep
coffee hot for hours and you can pump the handle on top to fill your cup. We
usually do this for company.

And if you are not using whole beans, you are using old, stale coffee. As
for a all-in-one coffee machine, just brew into the glass pitcher. Then pour
into the thermos or other insulated container. Anything that I have seen
that brews the coffee directly into an insulated container was quite pricey.

Yep. I just pour into a pre-warmed Thermos brand vacuum bottle(s) from
WalMart. About $8. Glass lined. I also have two of the unbreakable
stainless ones, but find the glass-liners seem to hold temps longer.

"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Lee Michaels" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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>
> "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>> "bc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>>
>>>> Myself, I find that after having a cup or two of coffee every day
>>>> for a
>>>> week, I always want a day or two off from it, and sometimes I take
>>>> a week or two off. When I first met my wife (we were both in
>>>> college), she was one of those people who drank coffee all day
>>>> long - we calculated 8-12 cups per day. She began having some
>>>> health issues and
>>>> her doctor told her to get off coffee - her detox wasn't much fun
>>>> for her or anyone around her. 🙂 She now drinks 2 cups or so per
>>>> day.
>>>
>>> My wife is definitely sensitive to caffein, and feels much better
>>> after
>>> detoxing some years ago. For me though, decaf is just not the
>>> same.
>>
>> The current compromise in our house is a mix of caffeine and decaf
>> coffee. That let's us drink more of it. Decaf is definitely not the
>> same, and the half and half mix is my wife's choice, not mine, and
>> I'm not thrilled with it, but it's not nearly as bad as having to
>> drink decaf.
>>
>
> Steve, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but a home roaser
> will produce a far superior coffee. When I used to do roaster demos,
> I would roast up some decaf and include it in the samples. Most
> people couldn't tell the difference.
>
> Decaf coffee is inherently damaged in the decaffeination process.
> Therefore, to develop the flavor, it must be roasted more slowly
> and/or at a lower temperature. It also stales much faster than
> regular coffee. I can roast a good quality, organic decaf and serve
> it to a group of people and maybe one or two will catch it right
> away. Most people will figure it out after awhile when they don't get
> the traditional caffeine "buzz".
>
> Coffee lovers who have to give up their beloved java, always resent
> it. When you can present an alternative like this, they often get
> very excited. I was selling a $5,000 machine and I still received a
> lot of inquiries for just this purpose. But with the variety of home
> roasters available now, there is no excuse for giving up coffee
> flavor when drinking decaf. You just have to "roll you own".
>
> Not only will your wife love you for it, your friends will too. My
> wife often roasts up small barches of coffee and gives it to friends
> She went to get her hair cut yesterday and gave her hairdresser some
> fresh roasted coffee. That guarantees some extra attention and
> service.
>
> Lee Michaels
>
One more comment;

You can buy some very high grade decaf green beans. When this stuff
is freshly roasted to a little lighter than a traditional decaf roast,
the flavor is fully present. You won't actually save money with this
approach, but both you and the missus will be happier.

Very interesting thread, gentlemen. Another question or two before I
present the idea of buying a home roaster to my wife.

One "show stopper" for us when it comes to coffee makers is the carafe
and heating element or lack thereof that holds the brewed beverage. My
wife and I long ago realized we didn't like the taste of coffee that,
after brewing, was continually being heated, so we settled on coffee
makers that dispense the coffee into an insulated carafe without a
heating element below it.

Do you coffee experts think this makes as much difference as we do?
Particularly in the summer, we often let the coffee cool and drink iced
coffee, and even when we like it hot, it's still plenty hot for a few
hours in the insulated carafe.

If the insulated carafe style is deemed "worthy", can anyone recommend
something that grinds and then brews in a single machine that has an
insulated carafe? I don't think I've come across one of these before.
Right now, although we used to grind ourselves, we don't because we
couldn't find a suitable machine. Grinding ourselves would be a good
first step for us, I think.

That goes without saying. You only need to brew the coffee once.
Anything after that is cruel and unusual punishment. Around here,
coffee is rarely around longer than what is immediately consumed.

If it is necessary to actually store the coffee, we have some big
airpots. There are insulated containers with an airpump in the head.
These will keep coffee hot for hours and you can pump the handle on top
to fill your cup. We usually do this for company.

And if you are not using whole beans, you are using old, stale coffee.
As for a all-in-one coffee machine, just brew into the glass pitcher.
Then pour into the thermos or other insulated container. Anything that
I have seen that brews the coffee directly into an insulated container
was quite pricey.

We own the Cuisinart Grind & Brew machine, which grinds the beans and
brews into an insulated carafe. It fits the "quite pricy" description.
It's also tempermental -- the hopper isn't quite big enough to brew the
full 10 cups, the various mechanical bits are prone to sticking, and you
have to dry out the hopper if you're going from one pot to the next. But
even given all that, we're happy with it--the coffee is great and you can
put it on a timer so you get fresh-ground coffee first thing in the AM.

The insulated pot is *definitely* worth it. Second choice for us would be
a machine that brews into the insulated carafe with a separate grinder
(which we did for years).

Hugh

--
Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
chocolate. ("Ladi"😉

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Steve Freides said:

Very interesting thread, gentlemen. Another question or two before I
present the idea of buying a home roaster to my wife.

One "show stopper" for us when it comes to coffee makers is the carafe
and heating element or lack thereof that holds the brewed beverage. My
wife and I long ago realized we didn't like the taste of coffee that,
after brewing, was continually being heated,

Leave it on the heater and it goes bad really quickly.

Quoted message said:

so we settled on coffee makers that dispense the coffee into an
insulated carafe without a heating element below it.

I agree with Lee here -- you could just get a thermos.

Quoted message said:

Do you coffee experts think this makes as much difference as we do?

I think actively heating coffee makes it undrinkable really quickly. So
you're dead right.

But I also think you've got some priorities wrong (from the myopic point
of view of someone who wants good coffee).

Extraction temperature is important. As another poster pointed out, very
few drip machines do this right.

I'd suggest getting a machine from a reputable vendor. I've purchased
from 1st-line.com, and these guys are good. They only sell good quality
equipment.

Take a look at these, they may interest you:

http://1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/homedrip.htm

We had that one for a while. The swing mechanism got wonky after a while--
it wouldn't get the grounds quite over to the pot and dumped water all
over the place. Plus the pot's not insulated.

Quoted message said:

Unless you're particularly partial to the all-in-one solution, I'd
recommend a french press plus a burr grinder instead, but it's your
coffee.

Now that's good coffee.

Trouble with the separate burr grinders is, in the winter they impart a
static charge to the grounds. When you go to knock the grounds into your
filter (or press) they leap away from each other and go all over the
tabletop.

I do not understand why no one makes a grinder that grinds directly into
the Mr. Coffee or Melitta filter holder. Now there's a product idea
waiting to happen.

Hugh

--
Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
chocolate. ("Ladi"😉

"Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Steve Freides said:

Very interesting thread, gentlemen. Another question or two before I
present the idea of buying a home roaster to my wife.

One "show stopper" for us when it comes to coffee makers is the carafe
and heating element or lack thereof that holds the brewed beverage. My
wife and I long ago realized we didn't like the taste of coffee that,
after brewing, was continually being heated,

Leave it on the heater and it goes bad really quickly.

Quoted message said:

so we settled on coffee makers that dispense the coffee into an
insulated carafe without a heating element below it.

I agree with Lee here -- you could just get a thermos.

Quoted message said:

Do you coffee experts think this makes as much difference as we do?

I think actively heating coffee makes it undrinkable really quickly. So
you're dead right.

But I also think you've got some priorities wrong (from the myopic point
of view of someone who wants good coffee).

Extraction temperature is important. As another poster pointed out, very
few drip machines do this right.

I'd suggest getting a machine from a reputable vendor. I've purchased
from 1st-line.com, and these guys are good. They only sell good quality
equipment.

Take a look at these, they may interest you:

http://1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/homedrip.htm

We had that one for a while. The swing mechanism got wonky after a while--
it wouldn't get the grounds quite over to the pot and dumped water all
over the place. Plus the pot's not insulated.

Quoted message said:

Unless you're particularly partial to the all-in-one solution, I'd
recommend a french press plus a burr grinder instead, but it's your
coffee.

Now that's good coffee.

Trouble with the separate burr grinders is, in the winter they impart a
static charge to the grounds. When you go to knock the grounds into your
filter (or press) they leap away from each other and go all over the
tabletop.

I do not understand why no one makes a grinder that grinds directly into
the Mr. Coffee or Melitta filter holder. Now there's a product idea
waiting to happen.

Hugh

It isn't just in the winter. Hell here in Florida (with our 99% humidly year
around) I get grounds flying everywhere. Now of course the AC cuts the
humidly down significantly, still.
Only thing about the French Press is, grounds will get into you coffee.
Some folks have a real problem with that. A simple manual drip, where you
can heat the water in a kettle to the proper extraction temp (just below
boiling) and have the extraction done in under 6 minutes, will really kick
your coffee flavor up several notches. That and grinding your beans, is 99%
of the way to getting great coffee, after than it is diminishing returns
(although, they can still be significant!).
Also, I love my Bodum vacuum (same grinds problem for my wife). Of course, I
am a big chemistry kid at heart.

--

Dr. Dickie
More to come...