Internet purchase - partial delivery.

Nick said:

If Chainreaction had delivered my total order I would have been happy
paying double for the one pair of shoes that fitted. I would not have
returned the pair that didn't. I would have thought my behaviour was
pretty normal?

I would have thought that 'normal' shoe buying would entail going to a shop,
trying on various sizes, and then buying the ones that fit.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Nick said:

Half an hour at least, postage, wrapping, possibility ChainReaction would
fail to pay for some unknown reason. I don't know how much your time is
worth? But doing this would be a greater cost than £40. Bearing in mind
ChainReaction could have solved this by simple email asking me to confirm I
wanted half my order.

With respect - If your time is so valuable then why don't you STFU?

--
SBSP

"Sponge Bob Square Pants" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick said:

Half an hour at least, postage, wrapping, possibility ChainReaction would
fail to pay for some unknown reason. I don't know how much your time is
worth? But doing this would be a greater cost than £40. Bearing in mind
ChainReaction could have solved this by simple email asking me to
confirm I wanted half my order.

With respect - If your time is so valuable then why don't you STFU?

I don't enjoy packing and shopping but I enjoy posting. Why do you read it?

Just curious but if your time isn't worth much how much is your legal
opinion worth?

Quoted message said:

--
SBSP

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick said:

"Joe Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> I recently attempted to buy two pairs of cycling shoes from
> chainreaction cycles. Uncertain which size would best fit me I
> ordered two pairs one size apart so that I could be sure one pair
> would fit. I checked that both sizes were available on the website
> and received a confirmation that my single order (both pairs) had
> been placed and would be dispatched in a couple of days.
>
> However a week or so later I received just one pair of the shoes and
> shortly afterwards was told that the other size was unavailable and
> had been discontinued and hence would not be delivered. My Visa
> card has been charged only for the one pair of shoes delivered.
>
> I checked the terms and conditions of www.chainreactioncycles.com
> and they made no mention of partial delivery.
>
> So I wrote to chainreaction asking that my money be refunded as
> they had not completed our contract for the delivery of two pairs
> of shoes. I stated that they could arrange collection of the
> unwanted shoes. They have refused to refund my money and state that
> I must first return the shoes and presumably bear the cost of
> return post. Returning the shoes is more effort for me than it is
> worth.

Had they supplied two pairs,(as you had ordered) then you would have
been returning one pair anyway. If the pair they sent had fitted
then you would have made a saving by not having to return the
unwanted pair, & no doubt you'd have been quietly happy about that
as anyone would. If you want the refund you'll need to pay the
return carriage to send them back. Unfortunately Sod's Law applies
as the particular pair they sent didn't fit.

Joe Lee

No I wouldn't have returned the pair that didn't fit. The time and
effort invloved isn't worth it for £40.

If Chainreaction had delivered my total order I would have been happy
paying double for the one pair of shoes that fitted. I would not have
returned the pair that didn't. I would have thought my behaviour was
pretty normal?

It's extraordinary behaviour because someone to whom £40 means so little
would usually spend more than £40 on one pair of cycling shoes (since £80+
shoes are better). But you have the right be to extraordinary! Just
don't be surprised that your story is being suspected because it is so
extraordinary.

Not that etxraordinary. Internet shopping seems designed for people who
don't have the time to go to the shops. I have'nt shopped at tescos recently
but I always used to have to pay a £5 for delivery. If I bought SD60 sandals
from the local shop they would cost £60. Not having to spend an hour going
to the shop and only paying £20 quid extra for both sizes seemed ideal. No
fitting mistakes, I could be sure I had the best fit.

If you know of a better pair of walkable, cycling shoes for hot sweaty, wide
feet I'm all ears.

There is no point in me lying. All I want is to know I will get what I
order. If they can't give me what I did order then they should check I still
want to continue before taking my money.

Quoted message said:

~PB

Crosspost snipped

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:48:17 +0100,

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

No I wouldn't have returned the pair that didn't fit. The time and
effort invloved isn't worth it for £40.

If Chainreaction had delivered my total order I would have been happy
paying double for the one pair of shoes that fitted. I would not have
returned the pair that didn't. I would have thought my behaviour was
pretty normal?

It's extraordinary behaviour because someone to whom £40 means so little
would usually spend more than £40 on one pair of cycling shoes (since £80+
shoes are better). But you have the right be to extraordinary! Just
don't be surprised that your story is being suspected because it is so
extraordinary.

I'm not sure it's that extraordinary. If I really urgently needed a pair
of cycling shoes (did happen to me recently) and wasn't sure what size I
needed (I suppose if you have unusually wide or narrow feet where you
might have to go up or down a size depending on the manufacturer) then I
might be prepared to buy two different sizes online and then never get
around to sending back the other pair.

OTOH, what does seem strange is that when a company does screw up in a
way I think is inexcusable (I'm not sure this would do it for me) then I
vow never to do any business with them again and I do make the effort to
complain (and in this case I would send the shoes back). British Gas and
Sainsbury's (Sainsbury's failed even to acknowledge my letter of
complaint that got sent to both the store and head office although just
an apology might have been enough for me to forgive them and British
Gas had me calling my solicitor) are two who have crossed that line.

Parcelforce delivering anything that requires a signature would be a
third except that I don't know how to avoid them. I've just made an
order with sjscycles and discovered it's a parcelforce signed delivery
which has cost me about 5GBP in phone calls (of which they probably get
4GBP) to try and get it delivered to the postoffice. Why is their
fscking telephone redelivery system so incompetant.

Computer: "When was the card left"
Me: "twelfth of september"
Computer: "You said 15th of May. Is that correct."

W.T.F. Come on. Do you really think someone is going to be ringing about
a card four months old! Eventually on about the third attempt it asked
me to enter the date using the keypad on the telephone - proving that
they are more interested in prolonging the calls than actually providing
a service.

Computer: "Please say your surname and then spell it. For example Smith
S M I T H"
Me: "Woodall W double O D A double L"
Computer: "You said P R F S A B. Is that correct"[1]
Me: "No"
Computer: "I'm sorry. I didn't understand that"
Me: "No"
Computer: "Try again. Please say your surname ..."
Me: "Woodall W double O D A double L"
Computer: "You said W double O D A double L"

Well blow me down with a feather. I find it hard to believe it could get
it so wrong the first time and perfect the second time unless it's been
deliberately programmed to behave like that.

Why can't this be done on the web? Oh, I forgot. They want to milk as
much money as possible from the mark they are delivering to.

Tim.

[1] The exact letters weren't this but I'm pretty sure they were all
consonants except the A which was the only correct letter.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Mike Scott said:

Peter Crosland said:

Provided you give them notice within seven days of delivery you can return
them for a full refund but you have pay the return carriage if the goods are
not faulty. Do a Google search for distance selling regulations for more
details.

Doesn't the cost and time period depend on whether the firm mentions the
DSR's appropriate incantation in their terms? Iirc if a customer's
lucky, and the company hasn't, then you get a month and a week and the
company gets to collect the goods. Or am I mis-remembering?

Yes, it does depend on whether the company mention your right to
return.

The period if they don't is actually three months, or is 7 days from
the date when they do inform you of that right, if that is earlier.

In this particular case, the company does mention it in their T&C so
that doesn't apply.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
"C++" should have been called "D"
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:01:18 GMT,

Wally said:

Nick said:

If Chainreaction had delivered my total order I would have been happy
paying double for the one pair of shoes that fitted. I would not have
returned the pair that didn't. I would have thought my behaviour was
pretty normal?

I would have thought that 'normal' shoe buying would entail going to a shop,
trying on various sizes, and then buying the ones that fit.

I recently needed to urgently buy a pair of cycling shoes that took Look
cleats. The (large) cycle shop near work didn't have a single pair that
were in the intersection of shoes that fit me and shoes that take Look
cleats. (And it's not like I have abnormally large or small feet) so I
resorted to the web. I deliberately (also) bought a pair of shoes that
were one size too small because they were dirt cheap (only one size
available) and I hoped would be fine for in the summer with thin socks
on and (fortuately) they do fit but I wouldn't have sent them back if
they hadn't. OTOH, I'm talking 15GBP here, not 40.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Nick said:

"Nobody Here" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick said:

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
>
>> Throw the in stock / out of stock part of their T&C in their faces and
> tell
>> 'em to refund your dough and come and get their goods. Mention that the
>> affair is already being discussed on the internet, and that casual
>> bystanders are rapidly becoming unimpressed with their attitude.
>>
> Point them at the relevant urc thread and they will be underwhelmed by
> the
> vitupertion.....
>

I'm curious Vernon you seem to be very keen to stick up for Chainreaction
when it appears to me that they mislead me first about the availabliltity
of
the items I ordered and also mislead me about how they handled out of
stock
items.

So I'm left 40 quid out of pocket through no fault of my own. Don't say,
I
can return them because this would be more effort than it was worth even
if
I did still trust Chainreaction. Where as a checking email would have had
minimal cost to Chainreaction.

If it's more trouble than it's worth to get your 40 quid back, it's
presumably not worth the trouble of banging on about it here, complaining
to them about it, or losing any sleep over??? If you're not bothered
to go to the post office and send off a parcel for a few quid for which
you'll get 40 of them in return, why bother us with your woes?

Cost of time and effort exceeds £40 - postage, simple really? It always
surprises me that people are so willing to write off their own time and
effort. Maybe others could achieve a return in minutes but I know it would
take me at least half an hour, probably more.

Well, if you cost all your time like that then surely you don't have the#
time to post here. I can well imagine that of you live an hour's drive from
a post office, and an hour's drive back, then it may not be worth the effort.
Do you? How long would it really take to go to the post office? If you're
that high-powered, get your PA to do it.

Quoted message said:

I posted to the newsgroup so that I might better understand what to expect
fand so that others could make a more informed descion about shopping with
ChainReaction and Internet companies in general. ChainReaction apparently
can't be bother to inform people about their policy of partial delivery.

Well, I think the answer seems to be that you got what you could expect.
They perhaps could have done it differently, but many or most internet
opertions don't.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe they
could have done better and offered you the choice, whatever. If you ask
me, it's pretty daft to fork out an extra 40 quid on a second pair when
you could have ordered just one pair, returned it for the next size if
it didn't fit, and then had your shoes for 40 quid plus a bit instead
of 80. Flippy neck!

As I said the time and effort of returning goods outweighs the cash I might
get back. I could have made an hours trip to the local bike shop tried both
pairs on and only bought one for £60, would that have been sensible?

Well, an hour isn't all that local, is it. What would you have done if
neither pair fitted, anyway? Thrown them both out, or returned them?

--
Nobby

Nick said:

An email to check I still wanted half the order would have cost nothing. As
it is they mislead me and I'm out of pocket.

So your time is worth lots and theirs is worth nothing? Hmmm. Perhaps
your standards are as double as your shoe purchases aspire to be?

--
Nobby

Nick said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No I wouldn't have returned the pair that didn't fit. The time and
effort invloved isn't worth it for £40.

If Chainreaction had delivered my total order I would have been
happy paying double for the one pair of shoes that fitted. I would
not have returned the pair that didn't. I would have thought my
behaviour was pretty normal?

It's extraordinary behaviour because someone to whom £40 means so
little would usually spend more than £40 on one pair of cycling
shoes (since £80+ shoes are better). But you have the right be to
extraordinary! Just don't be surprised that your story is being
suspected because it is so extraordinary.

Not that etxraordinary. Internet shopping seems designed for people
who don't have the time to go to the shops. I have'nt shopped at
tescos recently but I always used to have to pay a £5 for delivery.
If I bought SD60 sandals from the local shop they would cost £60. Not
having to spend an hour going to the shop and only paying £20 quid
extra for both sizes seemed ideal. No fitting mistakes, I could be
sure I had the best fit.

If you know of a better pair of walkable, cycling shoes for hot
sweaty, wide feet I'm all ears.

Fair enough. I didn't know they were *sandals*.

I'd have to be extraordinarily warm to ride a bike in sandals but that's
another debate entirely :-)

~PB

Nick said:

"Sponge Bob Square Pants" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick said:

Half an hour at least, postage, wrapping, possibility ChainReaction would
fail to pay for some unknown reason. I don't know how much your time is
worth? But doing this would be a greater cost than £40. Bearing in mind
ChainReaction could have solved this by simple email asking me to
confirm I wanted half my order.

With respect - If your time is so valuable then why don't you STFU?

I don't enjoy packing and shopping but I enjoy posting. Why do you read it?

Just curious but if your time isn't worth much how much is your legal
opinion worth?

As always on here (including my advice of course), exactly what you
pay for it.

And when you wonder why most people don't factor their time into
costs, you are forgetting that most people don't earn anything like
the £80 per hour (minimum) that you appear to value yourself at.

As a freelance IT contractor, I am *far* better paid than the average,
but still only value my time at about half what you seem to.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
COMMAND: A suggestion made to a computer.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Nick said:

Yep it definitely appears that ChainReaction are this type of company.

That is not the general opinion of Chain Reaction who won Singletrack's
Best Retailer award and generally get rave reviews for customer service.

FWIW if the shoes had been part of an order that was interdependant e.g.
brakes and brake levers, I think you would have a point but different
size shoes are not unless your feet vary in size. If they had been
faulty you could expect them to pay the return costs but simply because
they do not fit you I think it is up to you to return them. What would
you have expected to do if both pairs had arrived and neither fitted?

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

On 13 Sep 2005 09:21:39 -0700, "davek" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Sara said:

It doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I can't remember the last time I
ordered several items online somewhere and was not informed, in
advance, if they couldn't supply a complete order.

I don't know about you, but when I go to Sainsbury's to do my weekly
groceries shop, I don't just walk out of the shop empty-handed if there
is one item on my shopping list they haven't got in stock.

That isn't even remotely close to the same thing.

You are there, in the shop. You can choose whether to find a different
brand, or to wait until next week, or to just walk out altogether.

You have the chance to make that choice before committing to purchase
anything.

And of course, the grocery items are all normally separate purchases.
If you had been planning on baking a fruit cake, and they had no
raisins, you probably also would not then buy the flour.

Of course, from h POV of the retailer in this case, there was
absolutely nothing to suggest the purchase of the two separate pairs
of shoes, in two sizes, was linked. I should not think they commonly
get people buying two different sized pairs in the hope that one might
fit.

So from their POV, it was two separate orders, that just happened to
be made together, and paid for together. They fulfilled one, but
couldn't fulfil the other. And they only charged for the one they
could fulfil.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
I am in total control, but don't tell my wife.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:49:00 +0100, "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

No I wouldn't have returned the pair that didn't fit. The time and effort
invloved isn't worth it for £40.

If Chainreaction had delivered my total order I would have been happy paying
double for the one pair of shoes that fitted. I would not have returned the
pair that didn't. I would have thought my behaviour was pretty normal?

Only among people with more money than sense or time.

I would be surprised (very much so) if more than 1 in 1000 of their
customers would order on that basis.

You clearly earn so much that you just don't realise the value of
money to most people.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
You never finish a program, you just stop working on it.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Quoted message said:

I'd have to be extraordinarily warm to ride >a bike in sandals but that's
another debate entirely :-)

A friend of mine turned up at the pub last Friday night having ridden
through a downpour wearing spd sandals (from chain reaction!). Then
again, as you say, that's another debate entirely.

Nick said:

Just curious but if your time isn't worth much how much is your legal
opinion worth?

"The cash redemption value of Sponge Bobs legal opinion is 0.00001p"

--
SBSP

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:47:28 +0100, Alex Heney <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No I wouldn't have returned the pair that didn't fit. The time and effort
invloved isn't worth it for £40.

If Chainreaction had delivered my total order I would have been happy paying
double for the one pair of shoes that fitted. I would not have returned the
pair that didn't. I would have thought my behaviour was pretty normal?

Quoted message said:

Only among people with more money than sense or time.
I would be surprised (very much so) if more than 1 in 1000 of their
customers would order on that basis.
You clearly earn so much that you just don't realise the value of
money to most people.

Amen to that. Someone seems to have lost the plot. There are countless
thousands in this country who work a full days shift at [censored] jobs to
put 40 quid in their back pocket.

I honestly find it a bit offensive to hear someone say that amount is
too trivial to deign to visiting the post office.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick said:

Yep it definitely appears that ChainReaction are this type of company.

That is not the general opinion of Chain Reaction who won Singletrack's
Best Retailer award and generally get rave reviews for customer service.

Well I'm unhappy with them. By posting this thread I hope I have made people
like myself , who like to get what they order, aware of ChainReaction's
behaviour. Of course ChainReaction could easilly have done this in their
terms and conditions.

Quoted message said:

FWIW if the shoes had been part of an order that was interdependant e.g.
brakes and brake levers, I think you would have a point but different size
shoes are not unless your feet vary in size. If they had been faulty you
could expect them to pay the return costs but simply because they do not
fit you I think it is up to you to return them. What would you have
expected to do if both pairs had arrived and neither fitted?

My point is that I wouldn't have made the order if I knew of ChainReactions
policy, not a complaint that the shoes didn't fit. If I bought an item that
wasn't correct because of my mistake of course it would be my duty to bear
the cost of return.

But the only mistake I made was in trusting ChainReaction when they said:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Information.aspx?TranslationLargeID=6
==================
Product Availability
CRC updates the availability of the entire stock list on a daily basis.
Items that are 'Out Of Stock' will be displayed as such. In the rare event
of a problem with availability of a product marked 'In Stock', we will
contact you. You may then wish to cancel the order or wait until the item
becomes available.
==================

When I ordered both Items were marked In Stock. Also note my confirmation
upon ordering the two items was referred to as "your order" and "the order"
singular. No indication that the order was divisible.

FWIW I was certain that one pair would fit, I just thought they were a
little too big. I got sent the smaller pair. I can't ever remember returning
anything less than a £100.

"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick said:

Yep it definitely appears that ChainReaction are this type of company.

That is not the general opinion of Chain Reaction who won Singletrack's
Best Retailer award and generally get rave reviews for customer service.

Well I'm unhappy with them. By posting this thread I hope I have made
people like myself , who like to get what they order, aware of
ChainReaction's behaviour. Of course ChainReaction could easilly have
done this in their terms and conditions.

The only thing you've demonstrated is your obsessive personality & sheer
vindictiveness. No purpose has been served by your post other than an
attempt to inflate your own ego.

Joe Lee

I get realy [censored] by companies that don't deliver part orders when
everthing isn't available.