"I'm alright, Jack"

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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<<

Since it seems to be the "way of life" for some of the people that post

here

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against people that enjoy alternative medicine, perhaps if all of them had

to

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explain in a court of law just what their personal experience was in all

of the

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stuff they post about, that maybe they'd figure out that leaving people

the

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hell enough alone that have personal experience instead degrading their
experience, would be the better option.

It is your right to do what you want with your own health.

We would not need to be here at all, if you (I refer to the typical alt
supporter) were able to look out for others. But you are all so insulated
within your own little self-focussed "personal experience" worlds, that
you don't deep down care what happens to others. As long as you think YOU
personally have enough knowledge to escape serious fraud or injury from
useless or dangerous treatments that is all that matters to you. But you
are almost certainly wrong in that, too.

You must know that people are being scammed mercilessly by elements of
"alternative medicine", but even when people die to prove that treatments
are useless, your only response is that "people die within conventional
medicine too".

This applies to your leaders and trend-setters, too. I once heard Andrew
Weil admit in a TV
interview " Well, a lot of it (AM) is ridiculous, and a lot of it is
dangerous ---" but you don't find him being very active in countering
serious quackery.

You can never warn others what to be careful of, because you have developed
no
standards by which to make such judgements. . No medical claim is ever so
ridiculous or suspect that you are prepared to come out and say so.

That's why you may not think you need us, but you probably do more than you
think.

(I am aware that this is an over-generalisation, and it is not directed at
you personally, Debbee.)

Peter Moran

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From: "Peter Moran"

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"I'm alright, Jack"

A pity you think you are *alright*.

In the below, you have proven EXACTLY what you are.

Then you add to it with the pure AUCACITY to say that we don't care about
others.

And you are a doctor. It is no wonder so many are turning to alternative
medicine.

Here is the example of your complete DISHONESTY AND LIES.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/809196.asp

Peter Moran wrote:

All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman said"I
wonder what this berry does?".

Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially lethal gene
defects is a very legitimate and logic alavenue of medical research. So this is
nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .

It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was applied. It would
be unusual these days for such issues to not be addressed carefully by the
researchers and the ethics committees to which all clinical trials are
submitted thesedays. We cannot know how culpable the doctors are from this
rather emotive news item.

Peter Moran
==============================

Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger’s home in
Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the experiment was safe.

Documents

• Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
experiments.
• March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings about the gene
therapy experiment.

(No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson’s team had never told him
that anyone had ever raised questions about safety

(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter Moran.)

ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED
And that was just the beginning. Federal investigators, pouring through
Penn’s records, announced at the conference that they had made a series of
startling discoveries, raising questions about whether the doctors had covered
up problems and broken basic test rules.

In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the experiment,
several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse’s got sick. And two of them
died.

(No coverup there)

The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn’t get visibly ill,
if tests showed that any of them had a significant reaction called “grade
3,” the experiment was supposed to be “halted” immediately.
Records show there were “grade 3” reactions in more than one
patient. The first time, doctors stopped, called the government and got
permission to continue, saying an unusual condition with the patient might have
been the cause.
The second time, they stopped, called and got permission again, citing
another unusual condition.
But when it happened a third time, they didn’t stop, didn’t call.
Then, a fourth time. They didn’t stop or call then either

(No coverups there).

For their own safety, volunteers weren’t supposed to have a blood
ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with higher levels and
without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70.
When Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but
records show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the
experiment, his reading was 114 — more than double the original safety limit.

(That's way cool huh Peter???)

HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES
With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to the reactions in other
volunteers, even to Jesse’s own ammonia levels, Why had Dr. Wilson’s team
allowed the experiment to continue?

(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)

At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved Dr.
Wilson’s arrangement with Genovo.
In fact, the university itself owned a piece of his company and stood to
profit, too.

(Hmmmmmmmmm).

In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information
“should have been shared with the FDA sooner.”

(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey deaths.
There was no information given to Jesse or his family about toxic results in
prior patients. There was no information that would allow Jesse and his family
to make any kind of informed decision.”

(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)

CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS

He told congress that other private companies in the race for cures had
also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten adverse reactions.
But instead of sharing the information, government rules allowed them to stamp
those reactions “confidential,” classifying them as trade secrets to
protect their research investments.
So, while the government knew about them, other researchers like Dr.
Wilson and volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.

(TRust the government!!!)

“I was outraged,” says Paul. “I had a right to know. Jesse had a right to
know.

(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).

In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr. Wilson
filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and deliberately
violated regulations

REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!

Dr. Wilson filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and
deliberately violated regulations

(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)

This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger’s death. At
the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson

****is still on the faculty****

(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)

****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****

****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***

but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress,
lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more protection for medical
volunteers.

******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his family
thought they could trust.*********

Jan

Every charlatan has their collection of admirers, Jan, if that is how you
want to be seen. Just look at Hulda Clark. Are you going to continue to
promote her nonsense, Jan? How many with curable cancer placed their faith
in her as the result of your earlier endorsements of her, Jan? How many
have suffered needlessly through following your dental advice? You have no
idea.

You can find testimonials like these about any treatment. The narcissism
behind your bothering to collect them reinforces my case.

I have never heard you or most other alt supporters be critical of any
alternative treatment, even though you must know/suspect that many are
plain silly and/or fraudulent. That is why you need a skeptical presence
here.

Peter Moran

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Subject: Re: "I'm alright, Jack"
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/22/2003 7:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Every charlatan has their collection of admirers, Jan, if that is how you
want to be seen

This isn't about how I want to be seen. I have a message, I have helped others
and will continue.

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Just look at Hulda Clark. Are you going to continue to
promote her nonsense, Jan?

As I have said several hundrend (?) times, I can only attest to her methods I
have tried. I do believe she is 100% correct about the teeth. I have also said,
I don't believe anyone has the cure for all diseases. So once again you lie is
saying I have promoted her.

I know her as a person, she is none of the things that are continually
reported.

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How many with curable cancer placed their faith
in her as the result of your earlier endorsements of her, Jan?

None, as I have never promoted anything about cancer.

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How many
have suffered needlessly through following your dental advice?

Not a single one, as I give no advice, rather I have a message.

*IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH.

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You have no idea.

You are all wet as usual, see above.

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You can find testimonials like these about any treatment.

Of course.

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The narcissism
behind your bothering to collect them reinforces my case.

More of your complete nonsense and lies, no narcissism involved, rather great
compassion for those still SEARCHING and still SUFFERING.

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I have never heard you or most other alt supporters be critical of any
alternative treatment,

You must have missed them.

UNLIKE YOU, I condone NO wrong.

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That is why you need a skeptical presence here.

LOL>

We don't need BLIND DEAD AND DUMB LIARS like yourself.

When you can see no fraud in these exact words,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

*In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr. Wilson
filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and deliberately
violated regulations *

That is ALL we need to know about you, furthermore you have ONCE AGAIN made
false claims.

Either post them, retract or apologize.

Jan