Hydration

HughMann said:

1 Litre biddons are available from Toys R Us for $ 10, make sure that
the O ring is in the lid otherwise it will leak.

I just use the large bottles of water you can buy everywhere with
approriate cage. Carry 1, 2 or 3 extras into the front panniers
(permanent mount for tools, chains, ball pein, etc.

I stopped "buying" bidons when I found the above fitted, plus the $$$
bidons either have irreplacable tube (not 5mm or 6mm), or fatigue on
hinges/lids. now if I want a tube, a piece of 5mm tube, drill a hole
and grommet does nicely through the top.

You can also look at pop tops (if you like that sort of thing) from
juice as some of these fit the large $$$ water.

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

EuanB said:

What am I missing?

Taps? They're all over the place...

--
Shane Stanley

You've obviously never ridden the M7 🙂

[PHP][/PHP]

Absent Husband said:

And most importantly Euan, don't forget to wear lycra booties over your
road shoes. The more aero flow over the shoe will compensate for the
extra drag across the hydrapack...

*giggles*

Abby

[PHP][/PHP]

Abby you waaaaannkerrrrrrrr😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄

Bleve said:

I hate backpacks on bicycles (gets very hot & sweaty under them, YMMV),
and don't much care for warm drinks either.

not mad about backpacks either, but I can carry more water in the
hydration pack, plus the bag is insulated, so no I don't get warm
drinks, and you can always chuck some ice in the bladder seeing how most
of them have a wide mouth filler.

Absent Husband said:

And most importantly Euan, don't forget to wear lycra booties over your
road shoes. The more aero flow over the shoe will compensate for the
extra drag across the hydrapack...

*giggles*

Didn't one of the TDF riders have to jump through a dozen hoops to prove that wearing a hydration pack *didn't* provide an aero benefit?

EuanB said:

Absent Husband said:

And most importantly Euan, don't forget to wear lycra booties over your
road shoes. The more aero flow over the shoe will compensate for the
extra drag across the hydrapack...

*giggles*

Didn't one of the TDF riders have to jump through a dozen hoops to
prove that wearing a hydration pack *didn't* provide an aero benefit?

Yeah

and I personaly think it probably does.
Probly doesnt make up for the sweaty back tho

Dave

To stop the bladder growing mould give it a rinse after use and toss it
in the freezer. I use a 3L Camelbak on my dirt bike and have used this
method for 3 years now and haven't got any growth or had any problems
with the bladder. I also use it on my road bike (although it's a bit
big) and am surprised that more people are not using them. I have read
that to hydrate properly you should take small sips every few minutes
which is very hard to do with bottles. I have my eye on a 2L Camelbak
Lobo which is very narrow, has a ventilated back, a couple of small
pockets and should be better suited to road bike riding.

scotty72 said:

I got a DEUTER pack

great.

It has airstripes - special webbing to aviod sweaty back syndrome.

It also has an internal insulation lining to keep the water cool for up to three hours (more in you freeze about 1/2 litre overnight).

Avoid camelbak, doesn't have the above and is [censored].

Scotty

iv got the" adventure" 2lt hydration pack,[didnt break the bank, about $80] and has small pockets for valubles and keeps munchies cold.
i also use filtered water where possible.
cleaning the bladder with bicarb and lemon juice is the go if they get smelly

scotty72 said:

I got a DEUTER pack

great.

It has airstripes - special webbing to aviod sweaty back syndrome.

It also has an internal insulation lining to keep the water cool for up to three hours (more in you freeze about 1/2 litre overnight).

Avoid camelbak, doesn't have the above and is [censored].

Scotty

I have the Deuter 3L pack with the features that Scotty lists above plus a little pocket at the back for energy bars or gel. I use it with my MTB, Road Bike and walking. It allows me to go on extended rides without worrying about water supply, sometimes I might only put a litre in it and other times it's filled to the brim. I find on hot days the water in the biddons get warm whereas the water in hydration pack stays cooler and if you really want it cool then you add ice.

I used it on the Alpine this year with 2L of Gatorade and a bit of ice due to the extreme heat, it was refilled back at bright ready for the buffalo accent. I still had two biddons of water and these were used for drinking, cleaning my glasses and pouring water over my head when things got a bit hot. Under normal conditions 3 biddons would be more than enought for this ride given the support along the way. It actually worked to an advantage because one of the water stops ran out of water so people had to wait for resupply or continue on without water whereas I had lots of water. My main reason for using the hydration pack on the Alpine was I just wanted to drink cold energized water while riding up the hills rather than reaching down and getting a biddon full of warm/hot water.

EuanB said:

So far the only con I'm hearing re: hydration pack is sweaty back
syndorme which I can definately deal with (MMDV ;-) )

Any other cons?

Here's my take on it. MTB riders, motorcyclists etc wear hydration
packs because they have to. Riding a MTB on the sort of terrain it's
designed for means not much chance to take hands off the bars to reach
down and get bidons. Also, they tend to have compact frames, making
the reach further and there's generally less room for bidons anyway.
Further, MTB rides tend to be away from convenient refill stations
(servos, shops etc don't tend to crop up on singletrack or fire roads
much 🙂 ).

Roadies use bidons because they're easy to get at on a roady, easy to
see how much is in there, cheap, easy to wash, when they do get manky
it's no big deal to buy a few more (see cheap above), and most road
rides include ample opportunity to refill with cool water etc. Roadies
don't have to be so self sufficient in this way, so they don't have to
have a bladder strapped to their backs, with annoying shoulder straps
collecting sweat and getting stinky, sweaty back (yes, those mesh backs
help, but you still get a lot sweatier under them than you do without
one, I have one ....) etc.

It's horses for courses. I have only ever once had an issue with
running out of water, and that was on the '04 Melb- warnambool when the
first feed station was a long way away and one of my teammates ran dry
- so we had to share water, I gave him one of my bidons.. Now, try and
share water with a hydro pack while racing 🙂 Also, try and squirt
yourself or a fellow rider with water, it's easy with a bidon, and
non-trivial with a bladder - so you can't use them as extra cooling.
Today (36 degrees around the edithvale velo at 9am!) a client & I were
doing intervals, and a good squirt of water was much appreciated!

Backpacks are not a new idea, they are sometimes a necessary evil.

Bleve said:

EuanB said:

So far the only con I'm hearing re: hydration pack is sweaty back
syndorme which I can definately deal with (MMDV ;-) )

Any other cons?

Here's my take on it. MTB riders, motorcyclists etc wear hydration
packs because they have to. Riding a MTB on the sort of terrain it's
designed for means not much chance to take hands off the bars to reach
down and get bidons. Also, they tend to have compact frames, making
the reach further and there's generally less room for bidons anyway.
Further, MTB rides tend to be away from convenient refill stations
(servos, shops etc don't tend to crop up on singletrack or fire roads
much 🙂 ).

Don't forget that MTB trails can get very muddy/dirty. You don't want to
be drinking from a mud encrusted bidon then! A hydration pack solves
that problem because the sprout is much higher up from the frame and is
protected by an outer cap.

Bleve said:

Roadies use bidons because they're easy to get at on a roady, easy to
see how much is in there, cheap, easy to wash, when they do get manky
it's no big deal to buy a few more (see cheap above), and most road
rides include ample opportunity to refill with cool water etc.

I hate stopping :-)

Quoted message said:

Now, try and share water with a hydro pack while racing 🙂

I'm talking about doing long rides, not racing.

Quoted message said:

Also, try and squirt yourself or a fellow rider with water

IMO water squirted is water wasted. It does far more good inside than
it'll do outside.

I used a hydration pack on ATB and really appreciated that I only had to
refill once. Other than a flat (dammit!) the only stop we had was the
ferry ride. I like that.

A 17L hydration pack's a bit much for most rides though.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Just sent suzie that video Euan 🙂

OT I know

Euan said:

Bleve said:

Roadies use bidons because they're easy to get at on a roady, easy to
see how much is in there, cheap, easy to wash, when they do get manky
it's no big deal to buy a few more (see cheap above), and most road
rides include ample opportunity to refill with cool water etc.

I hate stopping :-)

The difference between a red light and a refil at a servo is maybe 60
seconds. I hate wearing backpacks 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now, try and share water with a hydro pack while racing 🙂

I'm talking about doing long rides, not racing.

Same thing applies, you can't readily share water with hydropacks. You
may not need to if everyone else also has them, of course.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, try and squirt yourself or a fellow rider with water

IMO water squirted is water wasted. It does far more good inside than
it'll do outside.

Opinon noted, and dismissed with gusto. You can only drink ~1l an
hour, you sweat more than you can drink in the heat (or at least, more
than you can safely absorb, it's dangerous to drink too much,
electrolyte imbalances are not fun, they've been known to kill people).

But .. you can help your body cool by pouring water over a jersey and
knicks, augmenting your sweat (which again, is limited by your body's
sustainable rate of perspiration). Evaporation (phase change) is a
*very* effective cooling mechanism, much (orders of magnitude) greater
than drinking a slug of water that will be pretty close to ambient temp
anyway, and it's very effective on a bike.. All that lovely moving, hot
dry air pulls joules out of your skin at a great rate.

Quoted message said:

I used a hydration pack on ATB and really appreciated that I only had to
refill once. Other than a flat (dammit!) the only stop we had was the
ferry ride. I like that.

That's fine, you like hydro packs, and they make you happy, that's
good. How many red lights did you stop for? 🙂

Quoted message said:

A 17L hydration pack's a bit much for most rides though.

17kg ... urgh. That's almost as heavy as most MTB's!

Bleve said:

Roadies use bidons because they're easy to get at on a roady, easy to
see how much is in there, cheap, easy to wash, when they do get manky
it's no big deal to buy a few more (see cheap above)

I get them free from my domestiques and toss them to my adoring fans
along the course :-)

(Several unfortunate injuiries caused by full ones are currently the
subject of lawsuits.)

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

[QUOTE=Bleve Snip Opinon noted, and dismissed with gusto. You can only drink ~1l an hour, you sweat more than you can drink in the heat (or at least, more than you can safely absorb, it's dangerous to drink too much, electrolyte imbalances are not fun, they've been known to kill people). [/QUOTE]

Beg to differ, you can drink much more than 1 lt an hour with absolutely no ill effect BUT the intake of electrolytes must be in balance with the electrolytes lost and the volume of water being ingested. ( its partly why they give IV saline (0.9% sodium chloride) to sick/injured and not IV water)

Link to: Water And Sodium Metabolism

merck.com12b.jspOpen ↗

Link is to a very heavy medical text on sodium imbalance and about half way down the very long page they talk about hyponatremia. The article is focused on ppl with disease and complications but us ordinary folk can easily understand the main messages. Weight gain or loss is an indicator of fluid state, very hard when riding but if your feet swell badly could be a sign. Also not stated but implied that the intake of sodium needs to be adjusted to accommodate the fluid level and the easiest way to do that on a bike is to eat a few salty snacks. Its why bushwalkers eat scroggin ( pocket snacks full of fluff, bits of vegetation and dead matches) which includes things like a sprinkle of salted peanuts and those BBQ shape or similar salty biscuits.

From what I understand the first "visible" signs of electrolyte imbalance are poor concentration, slight changes in coordination and talking rubbish. Usually only picked up after an "episode".

Your statement would possibly be true if a person was chronically ( long term) sodium deficient at the start of vigorous exercise, drank copious amounts of water and ate nothing. This does happen. People deliberately avoiding all salt in the belief that it will prevent hypertension, and who then go off on trekking holidays etc totally unprepared and unfit are prime candidates.

Its good advice to exercise caution about excessive water but should go with advice on increasing salt intake in riding snacks.

I agree that cold water down the back of the head is refreshing, if its available why not.

Never saw anyone share water in my years in Army, you want to drink - you carry it.
Grunts Rule.


Cheers
Hugh

Bleve said:

Quoted message said:

IMO water squirted is water wasted. It does far more good inside than
it'll do outside.

Opinon noted, and dismissed with gusto. You can only drink ~1l an
hour, you sweat more than you can drink in the heat (or at least, more
than you can safely absorb, it's dangerous to drink too much,
electrolyte imbalances are not fun, they've been known to kill people).

But .. you can help your body cool by pouring water over a jersey and
knicks, augmenting your sweat (which again, is limited by your body's
sustainable rate of perspiration). Evaporation (phase change) is a
*very* effective cooling mechanism, much (orders of magnitude) greater
than drinking a slug of water that will be pretty close to ambient temp
anyway, and it's very effective on a bike.. All that lovely moving, hot
dry air pulls joules out of your skin at a great rate.

That's what I really love about the Rock Lobster tops from Ground
Effect. They're a bit counter intuitive as they're long sleeved, great
for keeping the sun off the arms.

Anyway they soak up the sweat nicely and provide pretty good cooling
compared to other tops I've worn in the heat.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I used a hydration pack on ATB and really appreciated that I only had to
refill once. Other than a flat (dammit!) the only stop we had was the
ferry ride. I like that.

That's fine, you like hydro packs, and they make you happy, that's
good. How many red lights did you stop for? 🙂

Every one of course, now if only there were water taps available at all
red lights we'd both be happy ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A 17L hydration pack's a bit much for most rides though.

17kg ... urgh. That's almost as heavy as most MTB's!

17L backpack, 3L bladder. With camera, food and other assorted sundries
it came in at about 6kg
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

HughMann said:

Bleve

Snip Opinon noted, and dismissed with gusto. You can only drink ~1l an hour, you sweat more than you can drink in the heat (or at least, more than you can safely absorb, it's dangerous to drink too much, electrolyte imbalances are not fun, they've been known to kill people).

/QUOTE said:

Beg to differ, you can drink much more than 1 lt an hour with
absolutely no ill effect BUT the intake of electrolytes must be in
balance with the electrolytes lost and the volume of water being
ingested. ( its partly why they give IV saline (0.9% sodium chloride)
to sick/injured and not IV water)

You can drink it, but can you absorb it? I don't have time today to
track down the paper I read on it, but will try and do so over the
w'end and provide it here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Its good advice to exercise caution about excessive water but should go
with advice on increasing salt intake in riding snacks.

Definatly. This is why I suggest this to my riders :

http://www.aboc.com.au/perl/tips.pl?p=drinking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I agree that cold water down the back of the head is refreshing, if its
available why not.

It's not just refreshing, in hot. dry air it's very good at cooling.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Never saw anyone share water in my years in Army, you want to drink -
you carry it.
Grunts Rule.

This ain't the army, soldier 🙂

EuanB said:

I'm going to be doing longer rides on the road bike and two bidons just isn't enough. I've got three options.

Hydration pack, behind seat carrier (possible problems with under seat bag?) and stopping and refilling.

I'm leaning very heavily towards a hydration pack. They're a lot more convenient to use than bidons, they're comfy and I can't see a reason NOT to use one.

So why aren't more people using them? What am I missing?

Because they are really hot and uncomfortable on long rides; plus on a road bike they dont sit well while on the hoods.

jcjordan said:

EuanB said:

I'm going to be doing longer rides on the road bike and two bidons just
isn't enough. I've got three options.

Hydration pack, behind seat carrier (possible problems with under seat
bag?) and stopping and refilling.

I'm leaning very heavily towards a hydration pack. They're a lot more
convenient to use than bidons, they're comfy and I can't see a reason
NOT to use one.

So why aren't more people using them? What am I missing?

Because they are really hot and uncomfortable on long rides; plus on a
road bike they dont sit well while on the hoods.

Wow, you must have a really [censored] hydration pack!

Tam