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hillwalking snowdonia

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
22 March 2004
Last activity
30 March 2004
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Gwilym
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  1. Oh well, everyone to his own. I agree that there are times and parts of
    Snowdon where you can escape the masses but it would be so much better
    without them. As it is it has degenerated into a summit baggers mountain
    rather than a mountaineers mountain. I have done the Horseshoe many times as
    well as the South Ridge and the ridge from Llyn Glas that comes out between
    Lliwedd and Yr Wyddfa and they are the only routes that I now enjoy because
    I can do them for their own sake and not just as a route to the summit.
    "RJ Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    sh the

    Quoted message said:

    slum near the summit, rip up the railway line, reverse
    the footpath "improvements" and prohibit access for five
    years to allow the natural environment time to
    regenerate.

    Make my day!

    Leave it alone.. Its a great experience for loads of folk,
    and a rocky overgrazed lump ideally suited to being a
    touroid venue.

    Plenty of other hills for us in the know. I hated the
    thing once. Did all but 10 of the Munros and over half the
    corbetts before setting foot on the summit. Even had a day
    on Crib Goch and Carnedd Ugain without going on to the
    summit. Then one day on the horseshoe and the party
    atmosphere got me.

    I would hate it to happen to any other hill, but Snowdon
    is just fine. A different experience, and always
    enjoyable. I am a convert!

    And then again I have had days of solitude and adventure
    cl*mbing on some of its less fashionable crags.

    Richard Webb

  2. "Michael Hobby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "And far more that are not nearly such good fun. Its a one
    off, enjoy!"

    Sorry, but I cannot accept that there are "FAR MORE"
    mountains less worthy than Snowdon. Snowdon - Yr Wyddfa -
    is a desecrated mountain, if only because of what it is.
    It is overcrowded, overwalked and overfrequented by those
    who do not really appreciate mountains as places of
    beauty, serenity and solitude.

    My own feeling is that the best way to "improve" Snowdon
    is to demolish


    the

    Quoted message said:

    slum near the summit, rip up the railway line, reverse the
    footpath "improvements" and prohibit access for five years
    to allow the natural environment time to regenerate.

    "RJ Webb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    By all means climb Snowdon, but there are - you will
    find - far more enjoyable mountains.

    And far more that are not nearly such good fun. Its a
    one off, enj

    Richard Webb

    Absolutely. At least it's got character. Greasy railway
    tracks, greasy caff, greasy kids in smelly caff, japanese
    women in stillettos leaving train and entering smelly caff
    on top wondering what on earth is this all about. The
    pungent smell of either diesel or coalsmoke. The smiles of
    those from all walks of life who've reached the top for the
    first time, and then sent a postcard from the summit. (Hey
    ma, I'm on top of the world...). The endless stories back at
    their lodgings of the day's trek over a few pints. Snowdon
    is a great goal for many people who, if it was not so, would
    do tap all. So, let them eat cake, at the top, and bin the
    'sentimental twaddle'.

    Robert

  3. Phil Cook <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Gordon said:

    Too the best of my knowledge there is no oil on Snowdon.

    There is a trail of the stuff up the railway line and a
    tank of it to run the genny with at the caff^H^H^H^Heyesore
    at the summit.

    The Axles of Evil. let's invade 'em.
    --
    Gordon

  4. On 24/3/04 5:25 pm, in article [email hidden], "Michael

    Hobby said:

    My own feeling is that the best way to "improve" Snowdon
    is to demolish the slum near the summit, rip up the
    railway line, reverse the footpath "improvements" and
    prohibit access for five years to allow the natural
    environment time to regenerate.

    I can understand why you say that but if it wasn't for that
    railway many people would never ever experience the view
    from the top ....

  5. RJ Webb <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    sh the

    Quoted message said:

    slum near the summit, rip up the railway line, reverse the
    footpath "improvements" and prohibit access for five years
    to allow the natural environment time to regenerate.

    Make my day!

    Leave it alone.. Its a great experience for loads of folk,
    and a rocky overgrazed lump ideally suited to being a
    touroid venue.

    Plenty of other hills for us in the know. I hated the thing
    once. Did all but 10 of the Munros and over half the
    corbetts before setting foot on the summit. Even had a day
    on Crib Goch and Carnedd Ugain without going on to the
    summit. Then one day on the horseshoe and the party
    atmosphere got me.

    I would hate it to happen to any other hill, but Snowdon is
    just fine. A different experience, and always enjoyable. I
    am a convert!

    And then again I have had days of solitude and adventure
    cl*mbing on some of its less fashionable crags.


    The summit of Snowdon is one of those places you have
    to get to.
    --
    Gordon

  6. [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    RJ Webb <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    On 22 Mar 2004 09:08:28 -0800, [email hidden]

    (gwilym) said:

    I intend to conquer snowdon, having reached the summit
    of scarfell, last term.

    which route should I take?

    First convince an aggressive state,( the usual suspects
    out there pick acording to geopolitical bias) that its
    direst enemy is sitting in the caff upon a barrel of
    anthrax while reading Trail. After the airstrike...
    Command and Conquer!


    Too the best of my knowledge there is no oil on Snowdon.

    Plenty of lanolin though - just ask the sheep :-)
    --
    Fran If you need my email address please ask.

  7. RJ Webb said:

    Leave it alone.. Its a great experience for loads of folk,
    and a rocky overgrazed lump ideally suited to being a
    touroid venue.

    I never realised you were so considerate.

    Quoted message said:

    Plenty of other hills for us in the know.

    True.

    Quoted message said:

    I would hate it to happen to any other hill, but Snowdon
    is just fine.

    I suppose you have a point. I guess it's traditional now,
    and at least they don't have railways and cafes on any
    other summit.

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  8. Robert Hill said:

    The smiles of those from all walks of life who've reached
    the top for the first time,

    Usually by train.

    Quoted message said:

    and then sent a postcard from the summit. (Hey ma, I'm on
    top of the world...).

    Postcard? It's all mobiles these days. Soon we'll be seeing
    newsgroup messages posted from the top of Snowdon...

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  9. Michael Hobby said:

    As it is it has degenerated into a summit baggers mountain
    rather than a mountaineers mountain.

    Eh? That doesn't make any sense. It's a tourist's mountain.
    Baggers spread themselves around, they're usually far too
    busy navigating up some featureless unknown lump to be found
    on Snowdon.

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  10. Andy Howell said:

    I can understand why you say that but if it wasn't for
    that railway many people would never ever experience the
    view from the top ....

    This one? wilderness-wales.co.ukywv75.jpg

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  11. Then so be it. If people are unable to get up a mountain on their own two
    feet then they are not mountaineers and have no right to be on a mountain.
    Rip up the lines now!
    "Andy Howell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 24/3/04 5:25 pm, in article
    [email hidden], "Michael Hobby"

    Quoted message said:

    My own feeling is that the best way to "improve" Snowdon
    is to demolish


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    slum near the summit, rip up the railway line, reverse
    the footpath "improvements" and prohibit access for five
    years to allow the natural environment time to
    regenerate.

    I can understand why you say that but if it wasn't for
    that railway many people would never ever experience the
    view from the top ....

  12. On 25/3/04 1:23 am, in article [email hidden], "Paul

    Saunders said:

    Postcard? It's all mobiles these days. Soon we'll be
    seeing newsgroup messages posted from the top of
    Snowdon...

    I was on the top of Snowdon in early August. In many ways it
    was an amazing sight. In came the train. Off popped a load
    of Asian families from the midlands, the kids charging about
    and having a great time while their mothers and grandmothers
    nipped into the café. And there were loads of Hasidic Jews
    who had walked up the track from Llanberis, all still in
    traditional black dress but wearing trainers and
    occasionally a baseball cap to keep off the sun. On the way
    down I met more orthodox jews; apparently there had been a
    big conference somewhere and loads of people had decided to
    nip up Snowden as a family trip. I also me several groups of
    Birmingham muslims, youth camps whop were doing the kind of
    outward bound weekends that I used to have as a kid. And
    then on the lower levels there were families walking from
    Pen y Pass with pushchairs, etc.

    It did strike me that this kind of rainbow community meant
    that Snowdon has become a kind of very democratic mountain.
    It is right that all kinds of people can enjoy the mountain
    to some extent. Of course, I wouldn't want a café on top of
    every mountain but there's a place for this on Snowdon.

    All in all, this was quite a nice day out. Much better than
    on New Year's day where the mountain was jam packed with
    walkers. There was a constant trail up the Pyg track which
    was a bit depressing. And it was also very dangerous,
    literally hundreds of people struggling up over sheer ice
    with no crampons and anything sensible to steady them.

    The summer day on the mountain was far more pleasant.

  13. "Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Phil Cook <urwalk@p-t-
    cook.RfErMeOeVsEeCrAvPeS.co.uk> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Gordon said:

    Too the best of my knowledge there is no oil on Snowdon.

    There is a trail of the stuff up the railway line and a
    tank of it to run the genny with at the
    caff^H^H^H^Heyesore at the summit.

    The Axles of Evil. let's invade 'em.
    --
    Gordon

    Or better still, let's appease them.

    KRO

  14. "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    by those who do not really appreciate mountains as
    places of beauty, serenity and solitude.

    Those would be the "tourists" or "casual walkers" that I
    mentioned.

    I'm afraid the pair of you are sounding like snobs.

    KRO

  15. On 25/3/04 1:25 am, in article [email hidden], "Paul

    Saunders said:

    wilderness-wales.co.ukywv75.jpg

    I suddenly struck by real nostalgia for the mist ...

    ... Am in Snowdonia for Easter - that's really whetted my
    appetite :-)

  16. The first hitchhiker I ever picked up was a priest from
    St Petersburg walking to Llanberis from Bangor. Being our
    Easter there were no buses. He was using the holiday to
    do Snowdon.

    Richard Webb

  17. "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Michael Hobby said:

    Short of closing the hills I do not know what the answer
    to human erosion is.

    Spreading out. The problem is too many people visiting the
    same popular hills, the honeypots. If everyone spread
    their walking out over all the different hills in the UK
    there'd be very little erosion on any of them.

    There's a school of thought that says it's best to let
    the crowds descend on the popular places and contain
    the scope of the resulting erosion. That's why the
    people in rec.backcountry try to get everyone to go to
    Yosemite and Vail.

    Quoted message said:

    We need more honeypots to spread the tourists out, because
    it's the tourists (or the "casual walkers" or whatever you
    want to call them) that tend to concentrate on the
    honeypots and thus cause the most erosion.

    All the more reason to keep them away from the good places.
    --
    Mark South Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net <<Tiens!
    Ce poulet a une grenade!

  18. Michael Hobby said:

    Then so be it. If people are unable to get up a mountain
    on their own two feet then they are not mountaineers and
    have no right to be on a mountain. Rip up the lines now!

    One day you'll be old and won't be able to climb mountains
    anymore. Wouldn't a nice trip on the train up to Snowdon
    sound like a good idea then?

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  19. KRO said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    by those who do not really appreciate mountains as
    places of beauty, serenity and solitude.

    Those would be the "tourists" or "casual walkers" that I
    mentioned.

    I'm afraid the pair of you are sounding like snobs.

    Here we go again. I was simply stating a fact. Some people
    go out walking every weekend come rain or shine, they have
    all the gear and they climb everything from the smallest
    hills to the highest peaks. These are the "serious" walkers,
    for want of a better term.

    Then you get people who rarely ever go out walking.
    Occasionally, typically on a sunny summer's weekend, the
    weather may inspire them to go out for a walk. Where shall
    they go? What about Snowdon? Since they don't get out much
    they naturally head for the most well known location. They
    probably don't know about any other mountains, couldn't
    read a map even if they had one, and certainly wouldn't
    want to risk getting lost. And besides, why would they want
    to go anywhere else anyway, surely Snowdon is the only one
    worth climbing?

    These people have no proper walking gear, they don't go
    walking regularly, they wouldn't go out in bad weather or in
    the winter. They are *casual* walkers, or tourists, or
    whatever you want to call them. The names are irrelevant,
    they are what they are.

    They don't climb Snowdon for serenity, they want a bit of
    excitement. They don't climb Snowdon for solitude, they'd
    rather follow a bunch of other people who apparently know
    where they're going because they don't want to get lost. As
    for appreciating the beauty of Snowdon, well there may be
    some appreciation there, but they're not climbing it because
    it's the most beatiful mountain (even it it was), they're
    climbing it because it's the highest mountain and that's
    where everybody goes.

    If Waun Fach was the highest mountain in Wales there'd be a
    train to the top and all the casual walkers would walk up
    that instead. They don't climb it *because* it's beautiful,
    even if some of them do appreciate the beauty when they get
    there. And judging by the amount of litter left behind, one
    must conclude that many visitors don't appreciate beauty, or
    at least have a very warped idea of what constitutes beauty.
    How can anyone appreciate a beautiful view when surrounded
    by banana peels, crisp packets and coke cans?

    Anyway, drifting off the point a bit. The point is this.
    Some walkers are casual, some are not, whatever you choose
    to call them. The casual walkers only visit the honeypots,
    the serious walkers spread themselves around. Casual walkers
    are not there for the same reasons as the serious walkers.
    If they were, then they'd become serious walkers themselves.

    But there's nothing snobbish about this. I'm not putting
    casual walkers down, just explaining the differences.
    There's nothing wrong with a casual walker climbing Snowdon,
    nor is there anything wrong with being a casual walker. I'm
    not slagging off casual walkers.

    But it is annoying when there's a lot of them around... ;-)

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  20. Andy Howell said:

    It did strike me that this kind of rainbow community meant
    that Snowdon has become a kind of very democratic
    mountain. It is right that all kinds of people can enjoy
    the mountain to some extent.

    Since you've mentioned this, why is it that I virtually
    never see any ethnic minorities on the hills? In 22 years of
    hillwalking I can remember seeing one black guy on Twmpa and
    four Indians on Pen yr Ole Wen, and that's all.

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

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