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Helmets

Started by Just zis Guy, you know? · · Last activity · 46 posts · 1,862 views

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UK and Europe
Published
4 November 2004
Last activity
11 November 2004
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Just zis Guy, you know?
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  1. On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:25:16 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [quoted]

    Quoted message said:

    "The need for mandatory cycle helmets has already been recognised by
    the Royal College of Nursing

    Well bugger me, they kept that quiet from their members! It's the
    first I knew of it. 2-3 years ago there were a few articles in the RCN
    publications Nursing Standard and Paediatric Nursing, but I wasn't
    aware that RCN supported the notion (after all, they published an
    article by me supporting euthanasia, but they themselves don't claim
    to support the idea!)

    Rich x

    --
    If, as Einstein said, space is curved and occupies ten
    dimensions including time; How can you be certain which
    is the underneath of a ladder? And how can you be certain
    you haven't already walked under one next week?
    Extract teeth to reply

  2. Richard Bates said:
    Quoted message said:

    "The need for mandatory cycle helmets has already been recognised by
    the Royal College of Nursing

    Well bugger me, they kept that quiet from their members! It's the
    first I knew of it. 2-3 years ago there were a few articles in the RCN
    publications Nursing Standard and Paediatric Nursing, but I wasn't
    aware that RCN supported the notion

    Angie is a nurse.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  3. you know? said:
    Richard Bates said:
    Quoted message said:

    "The need for mandatory cycle helmets has already been recognised by
    the Royal College of Nursing

    Well bugger me, they kept that quiet from their members! It's the
    first I knew of it. 2-3 years ago there were a few articles in the RCN
    publications Nursing Standard and Paediatric Nursing, but I wasn't
    aware that RCN supported the notion

    Angie is a nurse.

    Correct but irrelevant :-) The view of a nurse is not necessarily the
    view of the RCN

    I cannot find any statement from the RCN themselves saying that they
    also support mandatory helmet wearing. BHIT seem to claim that the RCN
    do.

    Closest I can find is Nursing Standard. 13(26):7, March 17-23, 1999.

    *****

    RCN members decided to refer the matter to the college's ruling
    Council, which will determine the RCN's position on the issue over the
    next year.

    Proposing the resolution on behalf of the RCN society of paediatric
    nursing, Sue Jones said 30,000 children went to UK hospitals each year
    after being in cycle accidents and that 70 per cent of deaths from
    cycle accidents were caused by head injuries.

    Berkshire paediatric nurse Angela Lee added: 'Research shows that
    helmets are effective, but helmet wearing has fallen from 23 per cent
    in 1993 to 18 per cent today.'

    Ms Jones said: 'I believe the general public wants legislation and we
    have to ask ourselves do we really care about brain injury and lasting
    damage or the spurious right to have the wind blowing through our
    hair?'

    *****

    But I can find no subsequent statement from the RCN as to their
    stance. I've emailed them but probably won't get a reply unitl xmas.

    Rich x
    --
    If, as Einstein said, space is curved and occupies ten
    dimensions including time; How can you be certain which
    is the underneath of a ladder? And how can you be certain
    you haven't already walked under one next week?
    Extract teeth to reply

  4. "Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:25:16 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [quoted]

    Quoted message said:

    "The need for mandatory cycle helmets has already been recognised by
    the Royal College of Nursing

    Well bugger me, they kept that quiet from their members! It's the
    first I knew of it. 2-3 years ago there were a few articles in the RCN
    publications Nursing Standard and Paediatric Nursing, but I wasn't
    aware that RCN supported the notion (after all, they published an
    article by me supporting euthanasia, but they themselves don't claim
    to support the idea!)

    Be fair now, there are frequent claims here that EG XYZ saftey journal has
    come out against helmet compulsion, whne in fact if you care to track down
    the source it is a letter published in the journal and neither editorial
    policy nor peer reviewed paper. Lots of the refernces to BMJ articles i see
    bandied about are just that.

    Sauce for the goose!

    pk

  5. Just zis Guy said:

    BeHIT have put out a gloating press release, again alluding to new
    evidence. I watch these things pretty closely and have not seen any,
    so I assmue this is a figleaf to cover the volte-face given that the
    evidence has moved, if anything, further against compulsion following
    the experience of Canada.

    Excuse me for a moment.

    [censored]! THEY DON'T EVEN CYCLE! WHY CAN'T THEY GO AWAY AND [censored]
    ABOUT WITH SOMETHING THEY UNDERSTAND????

    So we may yet need to get "F**K MARTLEW" cut from vinyl lettering for
    our new plastic hats?

  6. "PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:25:16 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Be fair now, there are frequent claims here that EG XYZ saftey journal has
    come out against helmet compulsion,

    so name one.

    whne in fact if you care to track down

    Quoted message said:

    the source it is a letter published in the journal and neither editorial
    policy nor peer reviewed paper. Lots of the refernces to BMJ articles i
    see bandied about are just that.

    Sauce for the goose!

    pk

  7. Richard Bates said:
    Quoted message said:

    "The need for mandatory cycle helmets has already been recognised by
    the Royal College of Nursing

    Well bugger me, they kept that quiet from their members! It's the
    first I knew of it.

    It was well publicised at the time. ISTR they announced it just a few
    days before the BMA came out against helmet compulsion, much to the
    embarrassment of the RCN :-)

    --
    Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

  8. Peter Clinch said:

    Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [censored]! THEY DON'T EVEN CYCLE! WHY CAN'T THEY GO AWAY AND [censored]
    ABOUT WITH SOMETHING THEY UNDERSTAND????

    Quoted message said:

    Because they're too dim to truly understand anything? ;-(

    The rednecks in the US homelands have a misinterpretation of the US
    constitution which I do sometimes find very appealing: the right to
    carry firearms to protect yourself from government officials.
    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  9. On 5 Nov 2004 06:46:46 -0800, [email hidden] (Dave Kahn) wrote
    in message <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Apparently some new convincing evidence has turned up
    that no-one else has heard of.

    Not really, they have just read Lee & Mann's paper in arch. dis. child
    which ssays that there is no deterrent effect. And believed it.
    Figures like "large" and "significant" in the Lee & Mann paper clearly
    outweigh the percentages in other data.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  10. The following is an open letter from Malcolm Wardlaw to a number of
    doctors, posted here with his permission. Please feel free to
    redistribute it. I think it is fair to characterise Maclolm as
    absolutely furious about this!

    As many of you will already be aware, the British Medical Association
    has suddenly changed its position on cycle helmets - the BMA now
    supports compulsory use of helmets by both adults and children. The
    paper justifying this decision may be found at:

    http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/cyclehelmetslegis?OpenDocument&High

    The original position of the BMA was arrived at in 1999 as a result of
    extensive gathering of evidence from many points of view. The decision
    not to make helmets compulsory was fully explained in a report called
    Cycle Helmets. This was an open process. The result was a reasonably
    balanced presentation of the evidence then available, although it was
    lacking in effective treatment of the issue of risk in cycling
    (actually very low).

    The change of stance has been, by comparison, a closed process sprung
    as a fait accompli. The new policy in most respects rejects the
    findings of the original study, yet in general on the basis of
    evidence already available in 1999! I am distributing this critique of
    the pro-compulsion paper to interested parties, notably doctors who
    may be members of the BMA, in order to ensure that you become aware of
    what is being done in your name. You may be inclined to object to the
    sudden change of heart by the BMA.

    There are some specific points I would like to emphasise, on the basis
    of my own knowledge:

    1. The paper begins by creating the impression that there is large
    support for a cycle helmet law in the medical profession. In support
    of this, it cites a single communication from a single doctor.
    However, the BMJ carried out an opinion poll of its readership in
    2002. This showed some support for a cycle helmet law, but roughly
    equal support for a pedestrian helmet law for children. The
    respondents showed far higher support for measures against bad driving
    and reduced speed limits to reduce danger at source. The poll results
    can be found at:

    bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/324/7346/1107/DC1?ck=nck

    These results do not justify the claim that doctors want a cycle
    helmet law. If the BMA wishes to alter its stance on an important
    public health issue, it should do a professional job of it and poll
    its members openly.

    2. The paper rejects evidence that helmet laws suppress cycling,
    especially by children. The reasoning is that experience in Australia
    is "out of date". In support of this, the case of Ontario is cited,
    where legislation apparently did not suppress child cyclists. There is
    a simple reason for this; the Ontario law was never enforced. If a law
    isn't enforced, it can't deter cycling, can it? The evidence that
    helmet laws deter cycling is so overwhelming that one could write a
    paper on the topic alone. Cycle use in Australia is still below, or
    hardly above, what it was in 1990 (before laws were passed) when
    population increase is accounted for. In Western Australia, the
    population has increased by 33% since 1990, but cycle counts only rose
    above pre-law levels again in the last couple of years. Cycle use was
    growing in WA before the law was passed - the law destroyed that
    growth permanently. Those interested are recommended to see
    http://www.cyclehelmets.org for a litany of examples. By taking
    Ontario as an example to "prove" helmet legislation does not suppress
    cycle use, the BMA stray into the realm of intellectual corruption.
    See:

    Burdett A. Efficacy of cycle helmets and ethical arguments for
    legislation. J R Soc Med 2004;97:503.

    3. In justifying the "need" for a helmet law, the paper cites various
    injury figures. These appear large, but only because so many slight
    injuries are captured. In reality, there are about 3,000 serious
    injuries in road cycling accidents per year, and 130 deaths. This
    works out at on average 1,000 years of cycling by the cyclist
    population per serious injury, 3,000 years per serious head injury,
    and about 20,000 years per death. In other words, cycling is a low
    risk activity and puffing out the figures by including a mass of
    slight injuries does not change that. The cycling environment in
    Britain presents risks comparable, or less, than driving in France.

    The paper claims that there are more than 50 child cyclist deaths a
    year in Britain. This is not correct. There are about 20-25 deaths in
    road accidents (which are accurately reported by the Police, if less
    so by coroners), of which approx. 15 will have suffered fatal head
    injury. Contrary to the impression given, pedestrians are just as
    prone to serious or fatal head injury as cyclists, or perhaps a little
    more so. In addition to the 15 on-road deaths, there will be a small
    number of off-road deaths.

    The pedestrian population faces higher risks per mile travelled than
    cyclists, by a factor of 1.6, and pedestrians are far more vulnerable
    than cyclists, adults pedestrians being about twice as likely to be
    killed in a reported road accident than adult cyclists.

    The reality is that the actual risk in cycling is low and does not
    warrant draconian measures imposed at the individual level. The best
    way ahead is to increase cycle use, which makes it safer anyway, and
    provide more effective cycle training and sensible advice on when a
    helmet may provide some benefit. A cycle helmet is not intended to
    provide protection in a road accident. It is fundamentally unethical
    of the BMA to propose helmet legislation as a road safety measure.

    4. In support of the effectiveness of legislation, the paper cites a
    number of claims about helmets preventing brain injuries and helmet
    laws reducing deaths and serious injuries. Reductions in deaths and
    head injuries after helmet laws have always run in line with
    prevailing trends for pedestrians. The Victoria helmet law is often
    cited as a success, but it was introduced along with measures against
    speeding and drunk driving. Pedestrian deaths fell 45% in the first
    year of the cycle helmet law. Pedestrian hospital admissions for
    concussion fell by 28% and 75% in the first and second year of the
    cycle helmet law, respectively - pretty much the same as the result
    for cyclists.

    Careful follow up studies have failed to produce any convincing
    evidence that helmet laws reduced serious injuries in the cyclist
    population. This point is carefully dealt with in presentation
    material that may be found at the web site of the Cross Party Cycling
    Group of the Scottish Parliament (note that this material has just
    been revised and a new version will be placed in the next few days).

    www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/crossPartyGroups/groups/cpg-cycle.htm

    The large discrepancy between predictive observational studies,
    reporting 60-75% prevention of brain injury, and the null results of
    legislation is easily explained. Observational studies are based on
    samples drawn from two totally different groups: those who do
    self-select to take a treatment (usually a minority) and those who do
    not (usually the vast majority). Inevitably confounding social factors
    have such a massive influence that the results may mean very little.
    The current crisis of confidence in observational epidemiology arises
    from similar experience with Hormone Replacement Therapy and vitamin
    supplements. The problem of unreliable science has become acute in the
    cycle helmet issue because proponents of helmets and helmet laws
    absolutely refuse to face up to the realities of the situation.

    PERSONAL VIEW.

    I finish with this personal view. The BMA has acted with inexcusable
    arrogance in this matter. The decision has been taken behind closed
    doors, the membership has not been effectively informed (there is no
    mention of the change of policy in the current edition of the BMJ),
    the evidence presented is so selective as to amount to intellectual
    corruption, especially with regard to the denial of the deterrence of
    cycling by legislation, on the basis of a single province where the
    law was never enforced. I would hope that those reading this will
    likewise feel outraged and make their feelings known to the BMA.

    Malcolm Wardlaw

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  11. Just zis Guy said:

    The following is an open letter from Malcolm Wardlaw to a number of
    doctors, posted here with his permission. Please feel free to
    redistribute it. I think it is fair to characterise Maclolm as
    absolutely furious about this!

    Excellent letter. My MP is the Shadow Minister for Health and I think a
    copy will be winging his way very soon (he has already been lobbied
    positively over the Martlehat debacle)

    Tony

  12. Ummm... who is Malcolm Wardlaw?

    Please pardon my ignorance!

    I thought the letter was excellent!

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

  13. On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:07:19 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Ummm... who is Malcolm Wardlaw?

    http://qurl.com/9hlu0l (you need to fill in a survey for BMJ at
    present).

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  14. Just zis Guy said:

    The following is an open letter from Malcolm Wardlaw to a number of
    doctors, posted here with his permission.

    I really like this bit:

    Quoted message said:

    A cycle helmet is not intended to
    provide protection in a road accident. It is fundamentally unethical
    of the BMA to propose helmet legislation as a road safety measure.

    I hope the recipients take note.

    --
    Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

  15. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:07:19 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Ummm... who is Malcolm Wardlaw?

    Quoted message said:

    http://qurl.com/9hlu0l (you need to fill in a survey for BMJ at
    present).

    No I don't, cos I've done it!

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

  16. PK said:

    Be fair now, there are frequent claims here that EG XYZ saftey journal has
    come out against helmet compulsion, whne in fact if you care to track down
    the source it is a letter published in the journal and neither editorial
    policy nor peer reviewed paper.

    I amnot aware of any such instances. Have you read Malcolm Wardlaw's
    letter contrasting the previous process with this one? The word
    "stichup" seems to fit quite nicely.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  17. Just zis Guy said:
    PK said:

    Be fair now, there are frequent claims here that EG XYZ saftey journal has
    come out against helmet compulsion, whne in fact if you care to track down
    the source it is a letter published in the journal and neither editorial
    policy nor peer reviewed paper.

    I amnot aware of any such instances. Have you read Malcolm Wardlaw's
    letter contrasting the previous process with this one? The word
    "stichup" seems to fit quite nicely.

    Guy

    The following to BMA, I don't suppose I will get a reply 🙂

    Sir

    In relation to your organisation's change of viewpoint in relation to
    cycle helmet laws despite the overwhelming mass of evidence that cycle
    helmets have no positive impact on cycle fatalities or injuries.

    It seems incredible to me that your body is quoting figures and
    statistics which were used previously to support non-compulsion of
    cycling helmet use in a pro-helmet compulsion paper. The use of
    deliberately misleading information and the ignoring of other factors
    such as tougher laws on drink drive and speed enforcement in the case of
    Australian cycle helmet laws is something I should not have expected
    from such an organisation as yourselves.

    The complete change in your stance coupled with the entire tenour of the
    way this has been done without reference to your members leads me to the
    inescapable conclusion that this new stance has been brought about
    either by political pressure or promise.

    I look forward to reading your response and hope that you will retract
    what is a clearly inaccurate point of view in favour of conducting
    either a new and properly researched standpoint from among your entire
    body of members or reissuing the previous statement. It is unacceptable
    that you should continue with a statement which has no basis in fact.

    Sniper8052

  18. TYPO! don't send it yet if you haven't already.

    "Sniper8052(L96A1)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Just zis Guy said:
    PK said:

    Be fair now, there are frequent claims here that EG XYZ saftey journal
    has come out against helmet compulsion, whne in fact if you care to track
    down the source it is a letter published in the journal and neither
    editorial policy nor peer reviewed paper.

    I amnot aware of any such instances. Have you read Malcolm Wardlaw's
    letter contrasting the previous process with this one? The word
    "stichup" seems to fit quite nicely.

    Guy

    The following to BMA, I don't suppose I will get a reply 🙂

    Sir

    In relation to your organisation's change of viewpoint in relation to
    cycle helmet laws despite the overwhelming mass of evidence that cycle
    helmets have no positive impact on cycle fatalities or injuries.

    It seems incredible to me that your body is quoting figures and statistics
    which were used previously to support non-compulsion of cycling helmet use
    in a pro-helmet compulsion paper. The use of deliberately misleading
    information and the ignoring of other factors such as tougher laws on
    drink drive and speed enforcement in the case of Australian cycle helmet
    laws is something I should not have expected from such an organisation as
    yourselves.

    The complete change in your stance coupled with the entire **tenour**
    tenor*of the way this has been done without reference to your members
    leads me to the inescapable conclusion that this new stance has been
    brought about either by political pressure or promise.

    I look forward to reading your response and hope that you will retract
    what is a clearly inaccurate point of view in favour of conducting either
    a new and properly researched standpoint from among your entire body of
    members or reissuing the previous statement. It is unacceptable that you
    should continue with a statement which has no basis in fact.

    Sniper8052

  19. And from Cumbria Online:

    <QUOTE>

    MARTLEW'S JOY AT DOCTORS' U-TURN ON CYCLE HELMETS
    Published in News & Star on Monday, November 1st 2004

    By Natalie Wilson

    CARLISLE MP Eric Martlew says he is "delighted" the British Medical
    Association has come around to his way of thinking on the compulsory wearing
    of cycle helmets.

    Earlier this year Mr Martlew tried to introduce legislation making it
    compulsory for all cyclists under the age of 16 to wear a helmet.

    His Private Members' Bill fell at the first hurdle in April after failing to
    win enough backing from MPs.

    At that time, the BMA was opposed to making helmets compulsory, but the body
    has done a U-turn after reviewing the latest scientific evidence.

    Sue Marks, head of the BMA's parliamentary unit, has written to Mr Martlew
    to tell him of the change of heart - and that they now think adults as well
    as children should be forced by law to wear helmets.

    She said: "The evidence from those countries where compulsory cycle helmet
    use has already been introduced is that such legislation has a beneficial
    effect on cycle-related deaths and head injuries. This strongly supports the
    case for introducing legislation in the UK.

    "Recent evidence has indicated that the introduction of compulsory
    legislation does not have a significant negative effect on cycling levels.
    Such legislation in the UK should not discourage cyclists and lead to a more
    sedentary lifestyle with consequent health risks."

    Mr Martlew welcomed the announcement, saying it made the future introduction
    of a compulsory helmet law much more likely.

    "I'm really delighted about this," he said. "The view in the past was, yes,
    people should wear helmets, but it shouldn't be compulsory.

    "Now the BMA has said it should be compulsory not only for children but for
    adults.

    "The way forward now is for the Government to accept these findings and
    bring in legislation. I think it's much more likely now the BMA have said
    this.

    "I know there was major debate in Cabinet as to whether the Government
    should support this bill and the views of the BMA were given a lot of
    consideration."

    Mr Martlew thanked local BMA members Dr John Howarth and Dr Peter Tiplady,
    who is also national chair of the BMA's public health committee, for their
    work in promoting the issue.

    <END QUOTE>


  20. Quoted message said:

    Mr Martlew thanked local BMA members Dr John Howarth and Dr Peter Tiplady,
    who is also national chair of the BMA's public health committee, for their
    work in promoting the issue.

    And more from the depths of the web.....

    < QUOTE >

    UK public health leader agrees to try to lose weight
    Publish Date : 7/23/2004 2:25:00 PM Source : SkinCareIndia Health News

    UK Public health leader Peter Tiplady is leading the fight against obesity
    by example.

    BMA (British Medical Association) committee for public health medicine and
    community health chairman Dr Tiplady has agreed to try to reduce his body
    mass index from an 'overweight' 30 to an 'ideal weight' 25, an estimated
    15-20kg (3st or 42 pounds) by July next year.
    He said: 'Doctors have a responsibility to show the way.'
    And he has issued a challenge in BMA News for other doctors to join him.

    < UNQUOTE >

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