HEART RATE

Ted van de Weteringe said:

Andrew Price said:

210 - (half age in years) - (0.11*(weight in kg)) + 4

Are tou sure you put the brackets right? Seems a bit pointless to
separate 210 + 4.

max hr formulas are techno-medico bull... do a standing out of the
saddle run up a tough incline, or hold a good sprint at the end of a
few hours on the road- you'll see your max or thereabouts; and you'll
see your max drop as you spend more time on the road- such as during
the spring. I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...the point is that the max hr is a very personal thing, and
there is no formula or point in comparison to any other individual
than yourself; hr monitoring and bpm numbers are useful intelectual
exercises to help quantify the pain and serve as a distraction during
the activity, as an excuse to ease off or provide a mandate to
continue; but the activity concludes with results that essentually
speak for themselves and that being the object of the activity, the hr
values are irrelevant

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Quoted message said:

16-18 beats too low for me.  Just a bit above my AT HR.

Quoted message said:

Clearly you need to eat LOT more ice cream.

Ice cream is cheaper than bagels in NY these days ?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head.

Ted van de Weteringe said:

Thanks, I am going to use that.

You must have a big head.

aka Joseph Santaniello said:

On Apr 10, 10:45 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:20:31 +0100, Dan Gregory

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price wrote:
> I was always told the rule of thumb was "220 less your age" - until I
> came across this formula today:
> 210 - (half age in years) - (0.11*(weight in kg)) + 4
It's about 30 low for me!

16-18 beats too low for me. Just a bit above my AT HR.

Clearly you need to eat LOT more ice cream.

Maybe JFT's friend from Arkansas will bring some ice cream when he visits.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

? said:

[...] I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...

Eddy Mazzoleni, real life inspiration for the legendary Fabrizio
Mazzoleni: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Mazzoleni>?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

"Ted van de Weteringe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price said:

210 - (half age in years) - (0.11*(weight in kg)) + 4

Are tou sure you put the brackets right? Seems a bit pointless to separate
210 + 4.

As this appears to be the same formula as the one below then the missing
link between the 210 and the 4 is that this formula is gender specific:

210 minus 50% of your age minus 5% of your body weight (pounds) + 4 if male
and 0 if female = Estimated Maximum heart rate.

Quoted message said:

Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a
population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way
to find out what max HR is is to induce it.

Thinking of formulae "off the top of my head" my MHR is the age of my
father when he died + the age of my mother when she died + 5
:-))

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:22:14 -0700 (PDT),

Quoted post said:

Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a
population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way
to find out what max HR is is to induce it.

How do you induce max heart rate, without finding out it won't go
_that_ fast and having the rate abruptly return to zero?

Pete

Peter Grange said:

How do you induce max heart rate, without finding out it won't go
_that_ fast and having the rate abruptly return to zero?

You clearly know about how the heart works then. You know, that fist-sized
red thing that pumps blood around your body. Just in case you weren't sure.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

Quoted message said:

On Apr 11, 12:31 am, Ted van de Weteringe

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price said:

210 - (half age in years) - (0.11*(weight in kg)) + 4

Quoted message said:

Are tou sure you put the brackets right? Seems a bit pointless to
separate 210 + 4.

max hr formulas are techno-medico bull... do a standing out of the
saddle run up a tough incline, or hold a good sprint at the end of a
few hours on the road- you'll see your max or thereabouts; and you'll
see your max drop as you spend more time on the road- such as during
the spring. I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...the point is that the max hr is a very personal thing, and
there is no formula or point in comparison to any other individual
than yourself; hr monitoring and bpm numbers are useful intelectual
exercises to help quantify the pain and serve as a distraction during
the activity, as an excuse to ease off or provide a mandate to
continue; but the activity concludes with results that essentually
speak for themselves and that being the object of the activity, the hr
values are irrelevant

Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up. A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up pretty
high up there. Getting your heart rate truly high is a pain in the ass
and I don't enjoy it that much. You should aim at getting dry heaves,
or even barfing. When I was younger I would do sprint repeats once a
weak. It was awful.

Andres

Quoted message said:

Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a
population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way
to find out what max HR is is to induce it.

Isn't there a correlation between nose length and the
number of doughnuts you can carry?

Bob Schwartz

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head.

Ted van de Weteringe said:

Thanks, I am going to use that.

You must have a big head.

Well, for certain you have a big mouth. Though my guess is that in person
you're really quiet.

"Then there are the differences among sports. Swimmers, for example,
have lower heart rates when they swim than runners when they run. The
reason, Dr. O'Connor explained, is that during running, your heart has
to push blood against gravity to bring it to your head. During
swimming, your heart does not have to exert that extra force."
"Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up.
A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up
pretty
high up there."
In cycle riding position then what? Warming up, awakening lactose
cycles in the hands, arms, neck, tissue surounding cranial nerve
pathways on the neck and shoulders, back muscles takes several short
sprints up-standing? Better to stretch and jog before riding or
swimming.
Your warmup may indicate a training hole where the lactose threshold
is slow to respond. Read Carmichael/Armstrong's training manual. As I
ease up on the total mileage, my lactose threshold moves further away
into each ride. Before cutting back from daily 25 mile rides, that
threshold was bang off the start with no lag.
Somewhere here is written something about aerobic thresholds.
Practically, aerobic energy supply doesn't contribute to riding hard.
On pumping capacity: short frequent runs may give larger gains than
stressing the heart to max. Try squeezing a tennis ball in each hand
to pump blood back up your arms, relaxes the atrium.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fats and carbs will be burned at higher intensities as well, but I
agree that using HR is a nice way to keep the intensity at a level
that doesn't waste time by being too easy, nor too hard which could
result in less total work due to burnout.

So, Joe, you ride a bike only as a workout?

On Apr 11, 3:29 am, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

? said:

[...] I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...

Eddy Mazzoleni, real life inspiration for the legendary Fabrizio
Mazzoleni: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Mazzoleni>?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

sorry; didn't think I had to be more specific

the legendary eddy.....

( you mean eddy the eagle ?
no, the merckx

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price said:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:27:07 -0700 (PDT),

Quoted post said:

> 210 - (half age in years) - (0.11*(weight in kg)) + 4
That's my HR when I read the NYT?
Actually that equation works spot on for me.

It's the first time I've seen one which not only takes age, but also
weight into account.

That struck me as well. Particularly since I am losing weight. I can't
see how my max HR is going to change by a few beats in a few months.

Joseph

This formula is way too high for me, at age 64 and 75 or 76 kg. It
comes out in the 174 range. (I would guess that it understates the
importance of age, so works better for younger riders.) I just about
busted a gut on a climb last Friday evening, and max'ed at 156. I
haven't tried any sprint intervals since I started using the HRM a
couple of weeks ago....

Twelve or fourteen years ago, my max was higher than the rate
"predicted" by 220 - age, something like 185. Of course, one of the
guys in the training group back then was in his late 20's, and could max
at 210 as I recall. And he wasn't even in very good shape.

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

On Apr 11, 12:31 am, Ted van de Weteringe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andrew Price wrote:
> 210 - (half age in years) - (0.11*(weight in kg)) + 4

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are tou sure you put the brackets right? Seems a bit pointless to
separate 210 + 4.

Quoted message said:

max hr formulas are techno-medico bull... do a standing out of the
saddle run up a tough incline, or hold a good sprint at the end of a
few hours on the road- you'll see your max or thereabouts; and you'll
see your max drop as you spend more time on the road- such as during
the spring. I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...the point is that the max hr is a very personal thing, and
there is no formula or point in comparison to any other individual
than yourself; hr monitoring and bpm numbers are useful intelectual
exercises to help quantify the pain and serve as a distraction during
the activity, as an excuse to ease off or provide a mandate to
continue; but the activity concludes with results that essentually
speak for themselves and that being the object of the activity, the hr
values are irrelevant

Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up. A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up pretty
high up there. Getting your heart rate truly high is a pain in the ass
and I don't enjoy it that much. You should aim at getting dry heaves,
or even barfing. When I was younger I would do sprint repeats once a
weak. It was awful.

Andres- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

warm up of course; I have to go about 20 min to get to some worthwhile
inclines, so I was speaking from a personal perspective.

but I was thinking a bit more last night after I posted and I wonder
if the max hr is more of a pain threshold; the point where one says
"enough !" where someone else chooses to continue, I always feel I can
do more but don't because the agony becomes greater- this is
especially true of roller workouts where there are fewer variables to
influence the outcome; and the truth is I get scared that I might be
damaging my heart so I start to ease off then- but then at least I
know I can go that hard and survive, ergo "permission to continue"

dry heaves or barfing...never got there while training; but to the
blackout point a few times, but that is meaningless because the
question when cycling is where do you want to go ? how fast do you
want to go ? faster than before ? or faster than someone else ?; an
interesting example I had reciently is last week I did a 3hr hilly
ride which I felt went very well and discvovered after that almost to
the date 1 year ago I had recorded the same route under very similar
conditions; the times marked at the usual markers were within minutes
of each other and the hr graphs when overlayed and compared kilometer
to kilometer, was almost parallel. so what changed ? I was a year
older and and maybe 2 kgs lighter; avg hr; max hr; times, avg speed,
less than 2% difference.

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Then there are the differences among sports. Swimmers, for example,
have lower heart rates when they swim than runners when they run. The
reason, Dr. O'Connor explained, is that during running, your heart has
to push blood against gravity to bring it to your head. During
swimming, your heart does not have to exert that extra force."
"Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up.
A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up
pretty
high up there."
In cycle riding position then what? Warming up, awakening lactose
cycles in the hands, arms, neck, tissue surounding cranial nerve
pathways on the neck and shoulders, back muscles takes several short
sprints up-standing? Better to stretch and jog before riding or
swimming.
Your warmup may indicate a training hole where the lactose threshold
is slow to respond. Read Carmichael/Armstrong's training manual. As I
ease up on the total mileage, my lactose threshold moves further away
into each ride. Before cutting back from daily 25 mile rides, that
threshold was bang off the start with no lag.
Somewhere here is written something about aerobic thresholds.
Practically, aerobic energy supply doesn't contribute to riding hard.
On pumping capacity: short frequent runs may give larger gains than
stressing the heart to max. Try squeezing a tennis ball in each hand
to pump blood back up your arms, relaxes the atrium.

Swimming has lower HRs because the water helps remove heat from the body so
much better. Competition pools are kept at 78 degrees F.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Then there are the differences among sports. Swimmers, for example,
have lower heart rates when they swim than runners when they run. The
reason, Dr. O'Connor explained, is that during running, your heart has
to push blood against gravity to bring it to your head. During
swimming, your heart does not have to exert that extra force."
"Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up.
A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up
pretty
high up there."
In cycle riding position then what? Warming up, awakening lactose
cycles in the hands, arms, neck, tissue surounding cranial nerve
pathways on the neck and shoulders, back muscles takes several short
sprints up-standing? Better to stretch and jog before riding or
swimming.
Your warmup may indicate a training hole where the lactose threshold
is slow to respond. Read Carmichael/Armstrong's training manual. As I
ease up on the total mileage, my lactose threshold moves further away
into each ride. Before cutting back from daily 25 mile rides, that
threshold was bang off the start with no lag.
Somewhere here is written something about aerobic thresholds.
Practically, aerobic energy supply doesn't contribute to riding hard.
On pumping capacity: short frequent runs may give larger gains than
stressing the heart to max. Try squeezing a tennis ball in each hand
to pump blood back up your arms, relaxes the atrium.

Swimming has lower HRs because the water helps remove heat from the body
so much better. Competition pools are kept at 78 degrees F.

Also, wouldn't the blood descending from the head help to offset the
pressure needed to return the blood from the lower extremities back up to
the heart?

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fats and carbs will be burned at higher intensities as well, but I
agree that using HR is a nice way to keep the intensity at a level
that doesn't waste time by being too easy, nor too hard which could
result in less total work due to burnout.

So, Joe, you ride a bike only as a workout?

Nope. That's partly why I don't use an HRM either.

I only meant the comment in the context of someone trying to maximize
weight loss. Sure they would burn more by going harder, but it
wouldn't be something they could do for long enough.

Joseph