General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Head Up or Fingers Down?

Started by 4precious · · Last activity · 2 posts · 698 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
14 September 2003
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4precious
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  1. I'm puzzled by the "catch" phase of two men who seem to dominate this group lately - Hackett
    and Thorpe.

    Their upper body and head drive out of the water during their downsweep on their breathing side. And
    they certainly need a flat hand in the water to generate downward pressure to do this.

    But why not circumvent the whole problem and bend their wrists before sweeping down? With their
    fingers pointed at the bottom of the pool, only their forearms would generate downward force,
    and that ain't much. Less "Miller-torque". That is, less tendency for the downsweep to sink
    their bodies.

    That's exactly what many female swimmers do.

    Hannah Stockbauer bends her wrist very quickly after her arm extends forward. (Go check it out on
    Donald Graft's website) In fact, I've noticed a very similar hand shape to many elite female
    swimmers. Their thumb is apart from the other fingers, the fingers are curved slightly, and they
    bend their wrist down and out right away. Will definitely alleviate downward force on the water.
    Then their wrist straightens as their forearm falls and they have a much better opportunity to pull
    back on the water, and not push down. And Hannah is not the only example. In many of the Brooke
    Bennett videos is a female who has almost identical right arm movement as Hannah. That woman uses a
    four beat kick - three on the right, one on the left. She always seems to be in second or third, but
    I'm very fond of the way she swims.

    Anyways, these big powerful men obviously feel much faster keeping a straight wrist on their
    downsweep, and using some of the big downward pressure on the water to lift their head and shoulders
    out of the water some.

    And my personal observation at the pool I swim at is also consistent. All the "loping" is down by
    the fastest male swimmers in the pool. The faster the coach asks us to swim, the more pronounced
    becomes the "flop,flop ... flop,flop ... flop,flop" rhythm of these men, and the more prominant the
    head and shoulder lift.

    Maybe I'm too in touch my feminine side, but I think I'm going to try swimming flat and bending my
    wrist like some of the elite females. I can't get much worse 🙂

    Eric

  2. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

    (4precious) said:

    Their upper body and head drive out of the water during their downsweep on their breathing side.
    And they certainly need a flat hand in the water to generate downward pressure to do this.

    But why not circumvent the whole problem and bend their wrists before sweeping down? With their
    fingers pointed at the bottom of the pool, only their forearms would generate downward force,
    and that ain't much. Less "Miller-torque". That is, less tendency for the downsweep to sink
    their bodies.

    This is another very interesting observation.

    It fits with my musings about "hydrofoil effect of the lope" (a misnomer, by which I mean that the
    swimmer is, analogous to a hydrofoil, transiently lifting part of his body up out of the water,
    coincident with the point of maximum acceleration (breathing side hand pull and accentuated kick).)

    Heretofore, I always considered "Miller Torque" to be totally bad. Something to be minimized. But,
    in addition to sinking the pelvis, "Miller Torque" helps to raise the head and forequarter of the
    body; these parts are elevated and then, whoosh, accelerated forward, while elevated. In the
    meantime, the taut lumbar arch and effect of the raised head and forequarter keep the pelvis up.

    I think that this is more prevalent in men than in women because men are strong enough to pull it
    off, while women, with some exceptions, are less able to do it. This may explain why it worked so
    well for a sub-100 pound Janet Evans but not as well for a 120 pound + Janet Evans (who
    presumably had an increased weight/strength ratio). Also why it isn't going to work instantly for
    a poorly-trained adult fitness swimmer; pointing to another reason for the latter to emulate
    Brooke Bennett, instead of Alex Popov (in addition to the adult fitness swimmers having a poor
    ability to kick).

    Larry Weisenthal

    Certitude is poison; curiosity is life

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