glueless patches

I agree- I carry a tube, a patch kit, and some glueless patches - but - I
would have to get around six flats on a ride before I had to use the glueless
patches. But I carry them anyway, becaues they are so ridiculously small. They
are in the same category as extra spokes, power links, tape, etc- they are
light and easy to carry but could potentially help me (or other riders) in a
big way.

Sheldon Brown said:

Andrew Morris asked:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking
themselves when they have some pressure put to them?

Pete Biggs responded:

Quoted message said:

Yes, but I've also had success on other occasions with Giyo gluless
patches at 130psi. They tend to be more reliable in dry conditions, but
still best saved for emergencies only, and then replaced promptly with a
proper patch.

Why patch tube twice, when you only need to do it once if you do it
right? That seems like a LOT of extra work for nothing.

Quoted message said:

Carry some but only in addition to a normal puncture repair
kit (and spare tube).

I'll agree there. I don't do on-the-road patching unless I get _two_
flats in the same ride.

For one flat, I'll just replace the tube.

When I get home, I'll patch the old one. I accumulate these and do them
in batches. Working at home, I use a jar of rubber cement rather than
the tubes of glue that come with patch kits. That way, I can leave the
glue tube in factory sealed condition, so it doesn't dry out on me and
leave me in the lurch if I ever need it on the road.

Patching properly, in a warm, dry, well-lighted workshop results in a
very reliable job. I buff the tubes with my bench grinder...

Sheldon "Glueless Patches Are Too Much Work" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| I don't believe in astrology. But then I'm an Aquarius, |
| and Aquarians don't believe in astrology. |
| --James R. F. Quirk |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, but I've also had success on other occasions with Giyo gluless
patches at 130psi. They tend to be more reliable in dry conditions,
but still best saved for emergencies only, and then replaced
promptly with a proper patch.

Why patch tube twice, when you only need to do it once if you do it
right? That seems like a LOT of extra work for nothing.

I agree it's extra work in total but it's not for nothing. Glueless
patches are faster to apply (even faster than changing a tube when it's
obvious where the puncture is) so one could make the difference between
catching or missing a train, for example.

As I said, they're best saved for emergencies only. That's two types of
emergencies. 1: When you're in a great hurry. 2: When you have no
alternative means of repair left.

~PB

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Maybe they've gotten better, but I've had no luck with glueless patches on
road bikes. Every one that I ever used eventually pulled loose and leaked.
Some took a few days to fail, others a few weeks. I don't use them anymore,
but I do keep some in my seat pack in case of emergencies as a backup to a
backup to a backup. Spare tube for first flat, then patch kit for the next
few, glueless patches after that.

The last time this question came up, some mtb'ers said they work just fine,
possibly because of the lower tire pressures.

Riding on with glue only,

my experience has been a bit better. My glueless patches have lasted a
whole season, but they have eventually failed. I carry a spare tube and
then use glueless as my back up. I only use regular glue patches at home.
I always find the small tube of glue dries up shortly after I open it.
---------------
Alex

"Andrew Morris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves

when

Quoted message said:

they have some pressure put to them?

My sole experience with glueless patches:

I was riding with my old friend, "Luvs Hills" Lester, and I got a flat. The
patch kit I had in my bike bag was certifiably ancient, and the glue had
separated into component parts, and wouldn't have sealed anything.

In desperation, I rummaged around the bike bag. I found some glueless
patches I had gotten as a freebie at a century I had participated in a year
earlier. I had just thrown them in the bike bag, not thinking much about
them one way or the other. They saved the day.

Lester was pretty disdainful of them, and I don't remember him offering the
use of his patch kit, but the glueless patch held. I wouldn't buy them, and
I wouldn't go out of my way to carry them compared to the regular patches,
but I thought they were darn fine under the circumstances.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky

Ron Hardin said:

gaza said:

Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
Forecast for today....
32C.
Ocean Temp..24C
Light NE breeze...1m swell
Merry Xmas

Are you guys having next summer or last summer?

Neither, it's this summer.

Rob

John Tserkezis said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Like the man says, it's not like ordinary patches are
hard.

Quoted message said:

They are slower to apply.

The same could be said for glueless patches

That doesn't make sense.

Quoted message said:

you still have to look for the puncture.

A bad puncture can be found in 5 seconds from the hissing noise and lump
of glass or whatever sticking through the tyre. For slow punctures, I
agree it can be quicker to change the tube (although you should still
check for cause of puncture in tyre).

Quoted message said:

If you're worried about speed, carry spare tubes and a gas charge
pump. The trade-off is weight and cost.

Again, using a glueless patch is FASTER than changing a tube WHEN it is
obvious where the puncture is (because the whole tyre does not need to be
removed, let alone the wheel). To be fair, it's not so easy on rear tyres
with mudguards/fenders.

This is such simple logic that I'm surprised more people can't appreciate
that glueless patches do have a use. Ok, limited use, but it is some
worthwhile use.

~PB

In rec.bicycles.tech Rob <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Neither, it's this summer.

and a damn nice one, too. i cried getting off the plane in the USA. and
that was san francisco. i really got bummed when i got to minnesota. socal
has nothing on your locale.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:58:12 -0500, Sheldon Brown

may have said:

Patching properly, in a warm, dry, well-lighted workshop results in a
very reliable job. I buff the tubes with my bench grinder...

Werehatrack said:

Okay, I'll admit to using the belt sander once or twice, but usually I
use a strip of emery cloth, and resort to the more aggressive
abrasives only when the hole is adjacent to a ridge line on the tube.
(I find that the cheapie tubes from Mall-Wart have fewer ridges than
the expensive boutique ones; this makes no sense.) The little
perforated metal buffers (with the razor-sharp finger-dicing edges)
are just about worthless for their alleged purpose.

We do not generally patch now, but when we did (and _lots_
of them every day) we used a normal "patch buffer" solvent
with a clean cloth. I still clean tubes that way for
patching the odd irreplaceable tube.

When I was young I remember the old guys would smear cement
over the area, wait a moment and scrape it away with a
pocket knife. That was also effective in removing any dirt
and extraneous material from the tube's surface.

I don't see a reason to use an abrasive in a shop when you
have a much more thorough and effective method of cleaning
available. The point is _not_ to texture or smooth the
tube; the point is to clean the surface detritus out of the
way so the glue and patch might adhere to the tube itself,
not the crud layer over it.

Of course an abrasive _can_ do a good job of cleaning. YMMV
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves when
they have some pressure put to them?

Occasionally, but the biggest problem with them IMHO is that the tub is toast
once one peels off. The goop it leaves behind can't be removed enough to put
on a "real" patch and subsequent glueless patches don't seem to hold on it.

Trash the tube and switch to glueable patches.

I've chucked "goopy" tubes before for this very reason, but now I've
mended my ways (and my tubes). Now if/when a glueless patch lifts off
(which seems to be happening more and more now that the weather here is
warming up), I just peel the patch off, moisten a rag with Brasso*, and
rub the area until all the goop is gone. Then I stick on a proper patch
with proper contact cement.

* for countries that aren't lucky enough to have Brasso, it's a popular
metal polish that's 65% liquid hydrocarbon. Probably any solvent that
doesn't harm rubber would work as well.

HTH,

&roo

A Muzi said:

We do not generally patch now, but when we did (and _lots_
of them every day) we used a normal "patch buffer" solvent
with a clean cloth. I still clean tubes that way for
patching the odd irreplaceable tube.

When I was young I remember the old guys would smear cement
over the area, wait a moment and scrape it away with a
pocket knife. That was also effective in removing any dirt
and extraneous material from the tube's surface.

I don't see a reason to use an abrasive in a shop when you
have a much more thorough and effective method of cleaning
available. The point is _not_ to texture or smooth the
tube; the point is to clean the surface detritus out of the
way so the glue and patch might adhere to the tube itself,
not the crud layer over it.

Can solvent alone remove the mold release*?

* http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.1.html

~PB

(Pete Cresswell) said:

but the biggest problem with them IMHO is that the tub
is toast once one peels off. The goop it leaves behind can't be
removed enough to put on a "real" patch and subsequent glueless
patches don't seem to hold on it.

Solvent and sanding removes the goop.

~PB

"Gary Smiley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I agree- I carry a tube, a patch kit, and some glueless patches - but - I
would have to get around six flats on a ride before I had to use the

glueless

Quoted message said:

patches. But I carry them anyway, becaues they are so ridiculously small.

They

Quoted message said:

are in the same category as extra spokes, power links, tape, etc- they are
light and easy to carry but could potentially help me (or other riders) in a
big way.

I also agree. Carrying a glueless patch or 2 is like bringing along a couple
of postage stamps. Saved me from walking home once, when I found my glue was
dried up, and that was an *unopened* tube in a good (Rema) patch kit.

In article said:

Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
Forecast for today....
32C.
Ocean Temp..24C
Light NE breeze...1m swell
Merry Xmas

[censored] :-)

I'm in Melbourne, Australia
Raining and headwinds in *both* direction today 🙁

--
| Joel Mayes | /~\ ASCII Ribbon campaign
| Accordionist | \_/ stop HTML mail and news
| Musician | / \
| Music Teacher |

Cripes, the price of tubes is so cheap these days, I carry a couple o
spare tubes and don't bother doing the patch work until I get home. Goo
quality tyres mean less punctures anyway. Most of the punctures I've ha
have been tube pinches associated with poor rubber protection on th
wheel/spoke area and low inflation or failure around the valve base

Even the expensive tubes are only about AUD10. So leave the messy job
until you get home - and yes I prefer to use glue patches

-

I was looking at patches on the Nashbar site, and when you click on "more
info" for Nashbar's house brand it says:

"Please give the customer the option to purchase PT-GP2 as a
substitute at the same price. Please tell the customer that the Park
patches are glueless and are a better value."

LOL! Chya right. Don't know if they're just trying to move the glueless
patches or what, but perhaps someone from Nashbar should look at this
thread.

C.Q.C.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:49:35 -0000, "Pete Biggs"

may have said:

Can solvent alone remove the mold release*?

* http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.1.html

In my experience, the right solvent can leave the tube perfectly
prepped. The wrong solvent can leave it perfectly ruined. I hesitate
to recommend some of the things I do myself, precisely because there
are too many ways in which certain techniques can be misapplied or
misremembered. ("Was that toluene or xylene? Or did I use acetone?
Oh, hell, just douse it with carb cleaner spray and....aaah, [censored]."😉

BTW, I, too, have seen the trick of using some glue as a cleaner; it
*often* works, but I have seen it fail as well. The good part is that
in failing, it does no damage; as such, I consider it at least safe to
try if the urgency of performing the patch in one attempt is not
great.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:17:19 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]> may

have said:

I don't see a reason to use an abrasive in a shop when you
have a much more thorough and effective method of cleaning
available. The point is _not_ to texture or smooth the
tube; the point is to clean the surface detritus out of the
way so the glue and patch might adhere to the tube itself,
not the crud layer over it.

I consider that there is one situation in which an abrasive is
superior, and that is when the hole is adjacent to a mold ridge on the
tube. In that instance, I use emery cloth (or whatever comes to hand)
to reduce the ridge so that the patch will lay flat across the hole.
Over the years, the majority of patch failures I've had were in
locations where a ridge prevented the patch from laying entirely flat.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Joel Mayes <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
Forecast for today....
32C.
Ocean Temp..24C
Light NE breeze...1m swell
Merry Xmas

[censored] :-)

I'm in Melbourne, Australia
Raining and headwinds in *both* direction today 🙁

Dear Joel,

Rain . . . that's when water mysteriously
falls from the skies, isn't it? Four inches
last year, nearly eleven this year. But most
of it fell out at the airport where the weather
bureau records it, not where anyone actually
lives.

Carl Fogel
Pueblo, Colorado

Spider1977 said:

Cripes, the price of tubes is so cheap these days, I carry a
couple of spare tubes and don't bother doing the patch work
until I get home. Good quality tyres mean less punctures
anyway. Most of the punctures I've had have been tube pinches
associated with poor rubber protection on the wheel/spoke area
and low inflation or failure around the valve base.

Most of my rides are from 2 to 5 hours. I don't carry a spare
tube because it won't fit into my pockets. I do carry a few Park
glueless patches, a pair of plastic tyre levers, and a mobile
phone.

I suppose I could fit a spare tube under the seat. But then I'd
have to carry tools to remove my back wheel (SRAM/Sachs Spectro-7
internal gear hub).

The 4-or-so glueless patches I've used have been a complete
long-term success. But those tyres were inflated to 65 PSI only.
I now run Conti Travel Contacts at 85 PSI, and I understand I
might have problems with glueless at that pressure.

It don't know if it's important, but I was told to press the
glueless patches onto the tube as hard as I could for at least a
minute. So that's what I've done, and perhaps that makes a
difference.

The mobile phone is to summon a lift for more serious problems if
I'm more than a couple of hours' walk from home.

Quoted message said:

Even the expensive tubes are only about AUD10. So leave the
messy jobs until you get home - and yes I prefer to use glue
patches.

John

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Drive to work tomorrow.

That'll mean that my wife won't have a car available during the day
for errands, shopping etc. Then I'll have to do all that stuff when I
get home. Not an option at all 🙂

Cold weather, like 0F/-18C is no big deal. The worst temperature is
around 32F/0C because then we get lots of slush, wet snow, ice,
freezing rain and other stuff that makes riding hard. At 0F my only
problems are a freezing rear brake (going hydraulic on next bike)
which is no big deal as I still have the front working. The cold
itself is no problem as long as I have a sufficient supply of
cold-weather clothes.
I'd still ride my bike if it was -40F (which is extremely rare here in
the southeast of Norway, -15F is the coldest I can remember).

Yes, judging from the ".no" you've got on the end of your email addr,
I assume that you can handle the cold. The Gods can, too...

The longer a duration without flats you talk about on r.b.t, the
higher the chances of that nasty goathead deflowering your wheel's
butyl undergarments. REPENT! Sacrifice a DBS to Tyr, god of bicycle
mechanics, and tell your ladyfolk to call in sick.