I'm not trolling, just read what I have *precisely* written, it's only what I learnt from my coach when I was a racer about the use of a powermeter... everybody has his own cycling experience, mine suggests me what I've written about the SRM use. Then of course everybody has its own opinion based on their cycling career...
@bailsisub: never seen such a thing in me or my teammates, or the people I know. Perhaps if you tend to stop for a long time in autumn / winter or to get fatter during the same period...well don't know. The Conconi is well-done, right?
ok, I retire from this topic, mainly because we're ot, but also because we talk in too different "frequencies". I would like to try this training method and we'll see, I don't want to close myself in (probably) old beliefs and I would like to know more; but the more I read the more I think that this training method has been ideated to push people toward the buy of PT or SRM. Anyway, I'll try it then we'll see
... but the more I read the more I think that this training method has been ideated to push people toward the buy of PT or SRM. Anyway, I'll try it then we'll see
Strange, everything I know shows the people who developed the FTP concept have no financial interest in the sale of power meters or anything else. Why would someone invest the significant development time and effort purely for the financial benefit of others. Do you really think that makes sense?
Strange, everything I know shows the people who developed the FTP concept have no financial interest in the sale of power meters or anything else. Why would someone invest the significant development time and effort purely for the financial benefit of others. Do you really think that makes sense?
I do really think that this is an ingenous answer, research is never "for free", people researching in one field will usually get sponsorships, aside from the possibility of producing "proprietary" training methods that could be sold to the billion people interested in becoming better cyclists. Anyway, this is my italian malice coming out, I don't want to talk in this topic anymore.
I do not say that it doesn't work, obviously if you work at 95% FTP, that is (just to say) 95% threshold, you *are* working so you'll get trained as well; but your power (watts) will change from one week to the other, while your heart rate will remain still, so that's because in our team (and also in others, other riders) we used to regulate our training with the HR and used the SRM just to measure our improvements.
(Moreover the SRM was fundamental when doing strenght works, or "strengh/oxygen" work, it helped out in finding the right gear when doing the "strenght" phase of the work).
oh dear me you're soooo old school!!! Please hang around for a while buddy coz the peeps on this forum are gonna drop knowledge 😄 😄
You get on this board and say that training based on FTP, which is, by the way, the way most people on this board train, is nonsense. Do you actually expect anyone to respect your opinion when you say that the way we are training is nonsense?
Not to mention, when you say that heart rate will only vary 2 or 3 beats but LT power varies more, I have to wonder about you man. In my own experience, depending on fitness and recovery levels, my heartrate at LT power could (when I used to wear a HR monitor) vary from 175 to 188 in a season. Explain that one.
As part of a study for an exercise physilogists PhD back in the mid-90's, I saw that my heart rate at LT stayed pretty constant 188 to 190bpm. That I did ~6 tests per year for two years in a lab with power/heart rate and blood lactate measured helped accurately measure this. Power at threshold changed from the low 300's to over 340watts with a weight of 140lbs. The only time that heartrate deviated significantly was taking blood lactate readings on an outdoor track in England during the middle of winter - wearing thermals and all that.... I'll remember that the 1min 13 seconds (13 - unlucky for me) for a 1km effort, after an hour on the track at speed, wearing about 4 layers was probably the painful experience on a bike between the months of November and February!
As part of a study for an exercise physilogists PhD back in the mid-90's, I saw that my heart rate at LT stayed pretty constant 188 to 190bpm. That I did ~6 tests per year for two years in a lab with power/heart rate and blood lactate measured helped accurately measure this. Power at threshold changed from the low 300's to over 340watts with a weight of 140lbs. The only time that heartrate deviated significantly was taking blood lactate readings on an outdoor track in England during the middle of winter - wearing thermals and all that.... I'll remember that the 1min 13 seconds (13 - unlucky for me) for a 1km effort, after an hour on the track at speed, wearing about 4 layers was probably the painful experience on a bike between the months of November and February!
What about heart rate outdoors, under different conditions(temperature, altitude)? And if one trains with a powermeter, changes in FTP will be noticed.
As part of a study for an exercise physilogists PhD back in the mid-90's, I saw that my heart rate at LT stayed pretty constant 188 to 190bpm. That I did ~6 tests per year for two years in a lab
Again, cf. Figure 1 of the reference that Steve B provided earlier.
Wow, didn't think I would start such a commotion with a question on FTP in here. I guess it takes all kinds.
Anyway, I have tried incorporating some VO2 work, and increasing my FTP in WKO to 270 to force myself to work at a higher level for tempo and threshold efforts. I guess I have been waiting for some sort of epiphany to happen that would suddenly let my legs do more work with no more pain. I will see how this goes for the next month or so. I will probably be easing off the intensity in September/October as I have a baby on the way, but I do want to make best use of the time I have now to learn about how my body reacts and what training methods work for me. Thanks for all the suggestions.
... and increasing my FTP in WKO to 270 to force myself to work at a higher level for tempo and threshold efforts.
I wouldn't do this. Let the FTP number be a true reflection of what you can do for an hour. Simply try increasing the power that you do the threshold work at without modifying your FTP in WKO until you have evidence that your FTP has gone up. If you artificially inflate your FTP, then TSS, IF, CTL and all the other acronyms will be bogus.
Getting back to the original problem - something that I should have added before is that people often respond to duration increases or intensity increases to one degree or another. Many people find that they respond well if they just work a little harder (i.e., intensity increase). Through trial and error, I have found that I tend to make better gains through duration increases, so just plowing through at the same intensity but for longer efforts seems to give me better gains than increasing the intensity. I can't say for sure what type of responder you are but one easy way to get a grip on this is to try increasing the intensity and see what happens.
Getting back to the original problem - something that I should have added before is that people often respond to duration increases or intensity increases to one degree or another. Many people find that they respond well if they just work a little harder (i.e., intensity increase). Through trial and error, I have found that I tend to make better gains through duration increases, so just plowing through at the same intensity but for longer efforts seems to give me better gains than increasing the intensity.
Probably very true. I like to alternate. Increasing intensity and decreasing duration,when increasing duration doesn't seem to bring desired effect and the other way round in few weeks cycles.
More to the question. If you are not building towards a particular event or season peak which would probably need a bit different approach, I would use a principle that every few weeks something has to change in your routine. If it is not FTP, then either CTL (simply building CTL until some point should bring gains), letting TSB become positive now and then or workout structure/intensity/duration.
If CTL is topped and you have gone through cycles of higher intensity and duration and still nothing moves then I'd probably take few weeks off and start rebuilding.
Assuming you're in it for the long haul and know your current FTP is it not possible to build your FTP by gradually increasing a weekly 2 x 20 workout a week? To make it achievable, say 2 watt increment a week, and just keep going until some limit/ceiling is reached, then somehow look into breaking through to the next level.
Assuming you're in it for the long haul and know your current FTP is it not possible to build your FTP by gradually increasing a weekly 2 x 20 workout a week? To make it achievable, say 2 watt increment a week, and just keep going until some limit/ceiling is reached, then somehow look into breaking through to the next level.
That's what some people do however, 2 W increments might be a bit diffcult to achieve with accuracy, particularly if riding outdoors.
Assuming you're in it for the long haul and know your current FTP is it not possible to build your FTP by gradually increasing a weekly 2 x 20 workout a week? To make it achievable, say 2 watt increment a week, and just keep going until some limit/ceiling is reached, then somehow look into breaking through to the next level.
Be careful about structuring long term training on the premise of setting or breaking records every week. Sooner or later you'll have workouts where you struggle to just hit a previous level much less a continual increase. It's typically a process of two steps forward, one step back.... Don't set yourself up for frustration and disappointment by planning to continually hit new highpoints.
Having said that, your plan works in theory as a means of steadily raising the bar as others have suggested. Just temper it by thinking in terms of moving forward in the long term even if you sometimes have to stay at the same level or even drop down a notch.
