Expensive Cassettes

suzyj said:

Suzy

PS: Anyone tried the Miche cassettes? They make Campy-9 compatible ones, that are ~half the price of Veloce, but alas come only in 12-23, from what I can tell...

yep. and you can make any combo you like for half the price of campag (or about the same/less than veloce).
happy so far... but it doesnt make me go faster 🙄

suzyj said:

Carl Brewer said:

The DA chains last the longest, as do the Ultegra cassettes

Do they really last longer? I've found zero difference between any of
the cassettes that Campy make in terms of durability (actually I've
never tried Record titanium stuff, but suspect it wouldn't last as long
as the cheaper steel bits). The only difference between the Campy
cassettes is weight, which they achieve using alloy carriers on the
Record/Chorus/Centaur ones.

Same deal with chains. I've only ever used a couple of Campy chains,
and find they last pretty much exactly as long as an SRAM one does.
For that matter, all the SRAM ones last about the same time, regardless
of price.

This makes sense, as it's wear in the pivots that kills chains, and no
matter how many cutouts they have, or what the plates are plated with,
the pivots are much the same...

Just my experience, anyway. Derailleurs, on the other hand, last for
years and years, as do cranks, brakes etc. This is my justification
for using pricy dearilleurs, cranks, brakes etc, and cheap-as-I-can-get
consumables (chains and cassettes).

Regards,

Suzy

PS: Anyone tried the Miche cassettes? They make Campy-9 compatible
ones, that are ~half the price of Veloce, but alas come only in 12-23,
from what I can tell...

I had a 8sp Miche cassette on my old Bianchi, only because that's what
it came with. I never actually wore that one out. After about 15000kms I
scored a free Record cassette so I swapped them then.

I couldn't tell the difference between the two in terms of shifting
quality. The Record cassette was used for 1 race season before I got it
and it did about 8000kms before I sold the bike. It's still going strong
now.

--
Nick

suzyj said:

For that matter, all the SRAM ones last about the same time, regardless
of price.

This makes sense, as it's wear in the pivots that kills chains, and no
matter how many cutouts they have, or what the plates are plated with,
the pivots are much the same...

Actually the "bushing" part of the plates, the bit that's bent in, also
wears (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html and look at the pictures of
chain stretch). I've been using one of the better quality Wipperman chains
(Wipperman 908) lately and found it just lasts and lasts.

Cheers
Peter

"PiledHigher" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

They do have the 'can-break-the-chain-with-hand' link, usually gets
used once when I put the chain on and once when I take the chain of.

Note that one of the other barnds has a similar but not reuseable type
link the link is joined by putting tension on the chain pulling the
link together (wish I could remember which brand and explain the
process better).

--
PiledHigher

I thought of sram, but these can be used again

http://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/consumables/powerlinkgrips.php

On the subject of expensive cassettes I saw a Token titanium cassette on display the other day cnc out of a single piece of
titanium - very light.

parbs

Peter Signorini said:

Actually the "bushing" part of the plates, the bit that's bent in, also
wears (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html and look at
the pictures of chain stretch). I've been using one of the better quality
Wipperman chains (Wipperman 908) lately and found it just lasts and lasts.

That's a really good point, and one I totally hadn't thought of.

I wonder what thickness the plating actually is (ie how long before you wear through it).

That makes it doubly strange though that many chains are only plated on the outer links, and not the inner ones, which are subject to wear...

Regards,

Suzy

suzyj said:

That makes it doubly strange though that many chains are only plated on
the outer links, and not the inner ones, which are subject to wear...

That's also something to consider. I'd thought of plating as mainly for rust
protection and a bit cosmetic. The Wipperman 908 chain I referred to has got
plating on outer and inner plates. Maybe this has contributed to its long
life. I'd thought that better quality steel was the main reason.

Chers
Peter

Quoted message said:

My chainwheels seem to last near-on forever. I get better than 40,000 km >out of an inner chainwheel, and have never actually worn out an outer >chainwheel.

I always find that my outer chainring always bends before it ever wears out. This is rather frustrating and apart from getting a chainring made out of steel (not easy) i cant see a way around it.

I run centaur and buy campag record chains from www.probikekit.com (cheap as chips) and token chainrings from www.tdu.com.au (only 99 bucks for the pair). I have used veloce cassettes in the past though would like to try out the miche cassettes.

Is there an online shop in australia that sells the miche cassettes? (and not at an inflated price)

byron27 said:

Is there an online shop in australia that sells the miche cassettes? (and not at an inflated price)

dunno about them doing 'online' but here's Hillbrick's relevant page. I think they are also the importer?

hillbrick.com.auproducts cassettes 10spd.htmOpen ↗

flyingdutch said:

dunno about them doing 'online' but here's Hillbrick's relevant page. I think they are also the importer?

http://www.hillbrick.com.au/products/products_cassettes_10spd.htm

They quoted me $150 yesterday for the 10sp/campy one. Not sure how that shapes up against xxcycle in france, they do them for $78/$125usd, depending on what they're made from. Damn you get punished for 10sp, the 9sp ones are only $48usd. Xxcycles's TA Hegoa ring set for $76usd is quite a tasty buy though, I wouldnt mind a set if somneone is ordering.

till

till! said:

They quoted me $150 yesterday for the 10sp/campy one. Not sure how that shapes up against xxcycle in france, they do them for $78/$125usd, depending on what they're made from. Damn you get punished for 10sp, the 9sp ones are only $48usd. Xxcycles's TA Hegoa ring set for $76usd is quite a tasty buy though, I wouldnt mind a set if somneone is ordering.

till

$95 at Peter Moore cycles for 10spd here...

flyingdutch said:

$95 at Peter Moore cycles for 10spd here...

Sure, but which ones? Is that cheap for the spendy ones, or spendy for the cheap ones?

till

"suzyj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A notable exception is cassettes. I always use Veloce cassettes, as
I'll be stuffed if I'm going to shell out $200 for something that's
only going in the bin in 5000 odd km, no matter how many gee-wizz
shifting ramps it's got, or what it's plated with.

If you think 5000 kms is bad you should try racing MTB. I'm thinking about
replacing chain/cassette/chainrings after 1500 km. That's with a good clean
and relube between every race.
I mainly run XT parts, I'd be really interested to know if XTR chainrings
last any longer. I've tried a couple of 'boutique' chainrings but they
don't seem to last any longer than anything else.

Quoted message said:

So who sticks with the cassette that matches the rest of their group?
Who runs a Sora group with Dura-ace cassette? What are your reasons?

I don't care about matching, I like to have at least an XT rear cassette.
I'm no weight weenie but a lighter rear end makes for a more nimble MTB. XT
/ XTR cassettes also appear to be made of harder stuff than LX.
I tried a BBB cassette on my commuter and it started flaking almost
immediatly. Never found out how long it would last as I converted to a
fixie.
As far as chains go I'm a SRAM fan, tried shimano and whippermans but didn't
like them.

PS.
XTR == Dura Ace
XT == Ultegra
LX == 105

till! said:

Sure, but which ones? Is that cheap for the spendy ones, or spendy for the cheap ones?

till

that was for the 12-26T Miche 10spd, to replace my Chorus one

flyingdutch said:

that was for the 12-26T Miche 10spd, to replace my Chorus one

Sure, but as per the pricing I quoted from xxcycle.com, miche have two grades of cassettes. One is all steel, the other has some ergal(?) ones.

till

till! said:

Sure, but as per the pricing I quoted from xxcycle.com, miche have two grades of cassettes. One is all steel, the other has some ergal(?) ones.

till

hmm. not sure?

the box says
Pignoni series
PRM 12-26
10 V CR

has yellow spacers ( if that has any significance?)
All i know is it was suprisingly light! Im guessing its the lighter of the 2 (if they differ) as there was no distinguishable diff between them an the chorus13-29T ones that had Ti 26-29T)

"Duncan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I mainly run XT parts, I'd be really interested to know if XTR chainrings
last any longer. I've tried a couple of 'boutique' chainrings but they
don't seem to last any longer than anything else.

Long life chainrings = steel.

May sound to much of a downgrade for someone running XT, but the weight
difference just doesn't make up for the cost in replacing chainrings. I've
still got the original steel Altus rings on my rigid '93 Giant Sedona that
it had when I bought. They're well worn now,but this bike has done probably
40-50,000kms with plenty of dirty off road riding. Reckon I'd have gone
through at least 4 alloy chainrings, at ~ $100 a piece, in that time. Middle
and inner rings in particular should be steel, as they wear at the fastest
rate.

Quoted message said:

As far as chains go I'm a SRAM fan, tried shimano and whippermans but

didn't

Quoted message said:

like them.

What was the problem with Wipperman? I've been using them for the past 2-3
years and find them very good.

Quoted message said:

PS.
XTR == Dura Ace
XT == Ultegra
LX == 105

XTR is so overpriced that I wouldn't think Dura Ace even comes close.

Cheers
Peter

Quoted message said:

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Duncan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I mainly run XT parts, I'd be really interested to know if XTR

chainrings

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

last any longer. I've tried a couple of 'boutique' chainrings but they
don't seem to last any longer than anything else.

Long life chainrings = steel.

I couldn't agree more. Have you tried getting steel middle rings for a
modern MTB crankset though?
They may exist but every bike shop pretends they don't.
Granny rings still come in steel and I think my sora small ring on my road
bike weighs enough to be steel.

Quoted message said:

May sound to much of a downgrade for someone running XT, but the weight
difference just doesn't make up for the cost in replacing chainrings. I've
still got the original steel Altus rings on my rigid '93 Giant Sedona that
it had when I bought. They're well worn now,but this bike has done

probably

Quoted message said:

40-50,000kms with plenty of dirty off road riding. Reckon I'd have gone
through at least 4 alloy chainrings, at ~ $100 a piece, in that time.

Middle

Quoted message said:

and inner rings in particular should be steel, as they wear at the fastest
rate.

Yep, when I race I almost never use granny or big ring, been tempted to go
1x9 gears.
If XTR is double the price but lasts 3 times as long I'd consider getting
it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As far as chains go I'm a SRAM fan, tried shimano and whippermans but

didn't

Quoted message said:

like them.

What was the problem with Wipperman? I've been using them for the past 2-3
years and find them very good.

Only tried once and I really didn't like the joining link. It's quite
possible there were other things wrong with that drivetrain but I didn't see
any reason to switch from SRAM again.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

PS.
XTR == Dura Ace
XT == Ultegra
LX == 105

XTR is so overpriced that I wouldn't think Dura Ace even comes close.

I thought they were pretty similair. XTR is often double the price of XT,
Dura Ace double Ultegra. Often shared parts between MTB and road are the
same for the same levels.

Quoted message said:

I use Campy bits where possible on my bikes, mainly because I dislike
microsoft products. I reckon Chorus is good gear, so ~80% of the

bits

I didn't know microsoft made bicycle components now 🙂

- daniel

Duncan said:

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

XTR is so overpriced that I wouldn't think Dura Ace even comes close.

I thought they were pretty similair. XTR is often double the price of XT,
Dura Ace double Ultegra. Often shared parts between MTB and road are the
same for the same levels.

A quick check:
Dura-ace cassette - $200 (9sp), $250 (10sp)
XTR cassette - $300

Dura-ace hubs - $469
XTR hubs - $599, or $649 for discs

I reckon XTR is in the realm of the gods - for sponsored riders (?) and drug
dealers

Cheers
Peter

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Duncan said:

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

XTR is so overpriced that I wouldn't think Dura Ace even comes close.

I thought they were pretty similair. XTR is often double the price of

XT,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dura Ace double Ultegra. Often shared parts between MTB and road are

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

same for the same levels.

A quick check:
Dura-ace cassette - $200 (9sp), $250 (10sp)
XTR cassette - $300

Dura-ace hubs - $469
XTR hubs - $599, or $649 for discs

I reckon XTR is in the realm of the gods - for sponsored riders (?) and

drug

Quoted message said:

dealers

I suspect the price difference is due to the high end MTB market being so
much smaller than high end road. Another possibility is that MTB components
often need to be more rugged and complex.

The only XTR I've ever had has been people offloading old 8-speed stuff.