Here is an exchange of ideas I had with Dr.
Chung in the thread, "SO, WHAT DOES CAUSE
HEART DISEASE?'"
Quoted message said:
Al. Lohse said:Quoted message said:> > > If the last question can be answered in the affirmative,
> > > then there is evidence that statin therapy works outside of
> > > industry funded clinical trials. We can only hope that that
> > > is the case.
> >
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" replied:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Quoted message said:> > Statins do increase HDL.
> >
>
Al. Lohse said:Quoted message said:Please prove that increasing HDL by drugs is
beneficial.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:look up "reverse cholesterol transport"
Al. Lohse said:Quoted message said:Like a study that concludes that
improving HDL in a population improves their
outcome. In the absence of such a study one
can only conclude that HDL correlates with
heart health. Nothing more, nothing less.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:Here's a review to get you started:
Quoted message said:
I would have to conclude, on the basis of
this **mis-direction** to a biochemical study
of aspects of HDL, that a clinical trial,
showing that increasing HDL improves outcomes
(like greater longevity or less morbidity),
in individuals or even populations has yet to
be done. Are there any other conclusions?
ALLHAT-LLT could have and should have shown
whether or not that (increasing HDL improves
outcome) is the case. Does anyone know
whether or not ALLHAT-LLT kept track of HDL?
The first positive result for cholesterol
treatment was 4S* published in 1994. Surely
the beneficial aspects of increased HDL or
decreased TC/HDL (was seeing if anyone was
paying attention) was known before the
inception of 4S. Why were results not
published on the basis of HDL or TC/HDL
showing that subjects who improved these
quantities had better outcomes?
Does statin therapy work outside of industry
funded clinical trials? Does anyone have any
evidence that it does? MR FIT and ALLHAT-LLT
very nearly prove that it does not.
A.L. (When answers lead to more questions,
what can be concluded by that?)
*Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study
HDL refers to the cholesterol in High Density
Lipoprotein
TC = Total Cholesterol ( Blood borne as
constituents of lipoproteins)