Discovery in disarray.... ?

Is this progress?
You managed to get this bit right

musette said:

I agree DC has been underperforming, relative to their own expectations.

....but then you go off again on another rant, here to try to justify why DC are not doing well.

musette said:

............ But TM's results so far are a lot worse. What does that say about TM if they still have their star rider and they have been doing worse so far?

We can but continue to try to integrate you.

do anyone now what problem popo have during the daupine??

i watch the stage yesterday and i think popo legs looks not that muscular then the past year or i am i wrong ??

speiclay the i don´t now the word in english but in swedisch vadder (-;

is the backside of the leg under the knee

Yes, what is Popo's problem -- he was, according to reports, even dropped on the climbs of the final day of the Dauphine?! 😕 If he doesn't improve, he will have to work for one or more of Savoldelli, George and Ace after the first few mountain stages in the Tour.

musette said:

Yes, what is Popo's problem -- he was, according to reports, even dropped on the climbs of the final day of the Dauphine?! 😕 If he doesn't improve, he will have to work for one or more of Savoldelli, George and Ace after the first few mountain stages in the Tour.

i totaly agree with you but if he not improve he will not help geroge or ace at all he will be dropped in 1 sec or maybe 1 minute 🙂

zlatan said:

i totaly agree with you but if he not improve he will not help geroge or ace at all he will be dropped in 1 sec or maybe 1 minute 🙂

New signing Martenthz (spelling) was dropped and crashed.... Popo was dropped very early on during the last stage... the Eurosport coverage shows him falling off the back then his head drops.... I'm very worried about Popo.. he doesn't appear to being looked after at DC... his sickness and poor form have not been good for the former Giro pink jersey holder.... there is talk of him going to Lampre with Savo.... to those who say some riders are saving themselves only have to look at the coverage... why would a rider drop off the end of the peleton with 60km to go to ride on their own...?

whiteboytrash said:

New signing Martenthz (spelling) was dropped and crashed.... Popo was dropped very early on during the last stage... the Eurosport coverage shows him falling off the back then his head drops.... I'm very worried about Popo.. he doesn't appear to being looked after at DC... his sickness and poor form have not been good for the former Giro pink jersey holder.... there is talk of him going to Lampre with Savo.... to those who say some riders are saving themselves only have to look at the coverage... why would a rider drop off the end of the peleton with 60km to go to ride on their own...?

i think they did not have the legs at all very simpel

I'm not sure young Bernard Kohl would agree with you... 3rd at DL..... TM like CSC have been fostering younger riders and we are now beginning to see the outsome of that hard work....

musette said:

I agree DC has been underperforming, relative to their own expectations. But TM's results so far are a lot worse.

ye kohl was very impresvie in dl

maybe he should be in for the tour. he reminds on klöden in he´s reding style.

mazzoliein did 1 very good stage to

whiteboytrash said:

I'm not sure young Bernard Kohl would agree with you... 3rd at DL..... TM like CSC have been fostering younger riders and we are now beginning to see the outsome of that hard work....

Kohl was very impressive climbing Saturday's stage (6?).
I hadn't seen this lad race until I saw the D-L.
He impressed me and he has to be selected for LeTour.

limerickman said:

Kohl was very impressive climbing Saturday's stage (6?).
I hadn't seen this lad race until I saw the D-L.
He impressed me and he has to be selected for LeTour.

I saw Kohl before during Criterium International and LBL. We will get some interesting fights in a few years: T. Dekker, Cunego, Kohl, Gilbert, Reus (yes: Kai Reus, Rabobank Continental), Gerdemann, Nibali and i hope (but maybe it's very naive) Saul Raisin. And yes i probebly forgot some, they won't develope all to GC riders for a grand tour (Gilbert is more for the Adrennes like LBL) but some will...

I noticed from looking at dewielersite.nl that he's an ex-Rabobank TT3 rider too, so he's definitely a talent. Interesting palmares prior to his move to T-Mobile last year:

2002: 1e in NK op de weg, Beloften, Oostenrijk (AUT)

2003: 2e in 6e etappe Thüringen-Rundfahrt (U23), Sonneberg (GER)

2003: 2e in Eindklassement Thüringen-Rundfahrt (U23) (GER)

2003: 2e in 2e etappe Triptyque Ardennais, Soumagne (BEL)

2003: 2e in NK op de weg, Beloften, Oostenrijk, Judendorf (AUT)

2004: 3e in 5e etappe Thüringen-Rundfahrt (U23), Oberweißbach (GER)

2004: 2e in 1e etappe Tour des Pyrénées - Vuelta a los Pirineos, Cauterets (FRA)

2004: 1e in Eindklassement Tour des Pyrénées - Vuelta a los Pirineos (FRA)

I could also add to what you've said, with Gerdemann's second during today's stage at the Tour de Suisse. T-Mobile underperforming? I really don't think so.

Dead Star said:

I noticed from looking at dewielersite.nl that he's an ex-Rabobank TT3 rider too, so he's definitely a talent. Interesting palmares prior to his move to T-Mobile last year:

2002: 1e in NK op de weg, Beloften, Oostenrijk (AUT)

2003: 2e in 6e etappe Thüringen-Rundfahrt (U23), Sonneberg (GER)

2003: 2e in Eindklassement Thüringen-Rundfahrt (U23) (GER)

2003: 2e in 2e etappe Triptyque Ardennais, Soumagne (BEL)

2003: 2e in NK op de weg, Beloften, Oostenrijk, Judendorf (AUT)

2004: 3e in 5e etappe Thüringen-Rundfahrt (U23), Oberweißbach (GER)

2004: 2e in 1e etappe Tour des Pyrénées - Vuelta a los Pirineos, Cauterets (FRA)

2004: 1e in Eindklassement Tour des Pyrénées - Vuelta a los Pirineos (FRA)

Correct Kohl came from Rabobank Continental to TM (as Bram Schimtz and Bas Gilling did)

Chechu on Popo recently:

"I think we have a rider who has many talents and who at the same time will not bear the pressure of being a favourite. It's Popovych. The other riders, I think, will have more freedom although we will, as always, ride as a team."

Let's hope Popo does well. :o

" Like everything, when one leaves another arrives. I don't know why Lance retired really,but it is his choice. Personally after everything that was written about him after the race last year[the allegation of Armstrong using EPO during the 1999 Tour] I would have liked to have seen him come back, kick everyone's butt, and not say a word to th press. It would serve them right."
Bernard Hinault
Public Relations TDF

Lance will be honored as soon as the TDF purges LeBlanc. The world sees him and [censored] Pound for what they are.The greats of cycling want to see him honored.... Merckx, Indurain, Hinault, Ullrich, and Basso all would welcome him back. Only the second tier riders have a problem with him.

wolfix said:

" Like everything, when one leaves another arrives. I don't know why Lance retired really,but it is his choice. Personally after everything that was written about him after the race last year[the allegation of Armstrong using EPO during the 1999 Tour] I would have liked to have seen him come back, kick everyone's butt, and not say a word to th press. It would serve them right."
Bernard Hinault
Public Relations TDF

Lance will be honored as soon as the TDF purges LeBlanc. The world sees him and [censored] Pound for what they are.The greats of cycling want to see him honored.... Merckx, Indurain, Hinault, Ullrich, and Basso all would welcome him back. Only the second tier riders have a problem with him.

Hinault's view - is his view.

I am not sure that the TDF actually do want Armstrong back.
History shows that the TDF welcomes the great riders back as soon as possible to the TDF.
As I pointed out on another thread, Indurain retired on the 1st December 1996.
At the 1997 TDF who presented the winners jersey to Chris Boardman in Rouen prologue (prologue being the first event of every TDF)?
Miguel Indurain.

Ditto Sean Kelly : he retired in 1994 : Hinault and Leblanc asked Kelly back to the TDF to present jerseys at the 1995 TDF.

The great champions do get invited back immediately to participate.

If Leblanc wasn't there he would have been invited. At the presentation many of the riders spoke out against the injustice..... LeBlanc got caught up in a political game and in the long run he lost. The truth is LA was bigger then the TDF on a worldwide basis. On a world wide basis, he was the TDF for 7 years...... LeBlanc couldn't handle that. LA is better known then all the TDF riders combined. LA brought a tremendous amount of money to the TDF society that LeBlanc cannot take credit for. The TDF was in serious money troubles when the LA story revived it. It would have taken years for the TDF to regain what it lost with the Festina scandal.
WADA was attacking LeBlanc and LeBlanc used LA as a scrapegoat. But that backfired with the report last month.

I think that's a remarkably Amerocentric view - in Europe, the TdF is just that, the TdF, and no one and no thing is greater than the spectacle it represents. You'll find that the ordinary Frenchman, woman or child enjoys the day out when the Tour is in town, the noise, their town on TV, the caravan, the diving for free stuff, the blur of the peloton whirring by and yes, for shopkeepers and hoteliers, the extra income the whole shebang brings. You can find groups of old men remembering the old days, but ordinary people come out to cheer every single rider in the peloton - I'm afraid it's only 'fans' who can't see beyond one rider (and I'm thinking about the fanatic Basques as much as anybody) who assume that the race is about individuals.

Armstrong reintroduced the American public to the Tour and kept them engaged for 7 years. But to claim that Armstrong is bigger than the race and has somehow been its saviour is to profoundly misunderstand the place the Tour de France holds in the cultural and social history of France. In fact, it smacks of the exact arrogance that many Europeans perceive to be an 'American' trait.

It's also worth asking yourself why riders like Merckx (failed 4 dope tests), Indurain (unbeatable at the height of the EPOd 90s), Hinault (widespread rumours of cortisone use) et al would embrace Armstrong with open arms - omerta is a powerful thing...

wolfix said:

If Leblanc wasn't there he would have been invited. .

That's conjecture at best.

It worries me to read these sort of urban myths that you posted in this message.

Leblanc defended Armstrong time and again when Armstrong was being attacked.
Inside the ASO, Armstrong could not wish for a better or more able friend than Jean Marie LeBlanc.
JML defended your man - when all others attacked were attacking LA.

wolfix said:

LeBlanc got caught up in a political game and in the long run he lost.

JML hasn't lost any battle : in fact he is regarded as having modernised the TDF.

How quickly you forget.

JML was at the forefront of bringing the TDF to a wider audience long before LA ever appeared at the TDF.
For example, JML was instrumental in bringing the TDF to England in 1994.
He brought the TDF to Ireland in 1998.
He has overseen the commerical plan enacted in 1989, which has seen revenues at the TDF grow expotentially.
All of these plans and ideas were in train long before LA ever arrived at the TDF.

Sponsors have been beating down the door to get involved in the TDF for years.
Look at the old footage : how many times have the car sponsored changed since the 1950's? How many corporate sponsors have the TDF had since 1980's? I can count 4.
The TDF has been self-sufficient for decades.
It doesn't need "a rider" to ensure it's survival.
It's financially viable - and it isn't beholden to any particular rider/team.

wolfix said:

The truth is LA was bigger then the TDF on a worldwide basis. On a world wide basis, he was the TDF for 7 years.......

No rider is bigger than the TDF. No rider is bigger than the sport of cycling.
No rider is the TDF : the history of the race and the sport is what makes it unique.

The TDF is a cultural event in France - it is the French national holiday.
It is extricably linked in to the french culture and it is central to the French national identity.
You should visit France in July to see it for yourself.
I have - and it quickly becomes evident that the race is but a part of an entire cultural event

Even the greatest rider of all time acknowledged this when he commented to CS in the 2005 Eddy Merckx tribute edition "yes, I won the TDF 5 times between 1968 and 1976. But my achievements and my career are for the historians now. The sport moves on".
Eddy states it eloquently.

Your man would never try to make the claims that you've made above on his behalf.

wolfix said:

LeBlanc couldn't handle that. LA is better known then all the TDF riders combined. LA brought a tremendous amount of money to the TDF society that LeBlanc cannot take credit for. The TDF was in serious money troubles when the LA story revived it. It would have taken years for the TDF to regain what it lost with the Festina scandal.
WADA was attacking LeBlanc and LeBlanc used LA as a scrapegoat. But that backfired with the report last month.

I don't know how anyone can suggest that leblanc didn't support your man.
Time and again he supported him.

As regards the Festina scandal, I agree the sport was in turmoil.
Would it have survived? We will never know.
Did Armstrong bring attention and money to the TDF? He did bring some extra money and attention but as Eddy Merckx said the TDF goes on.
And it has.
It'll move on as it always does.

Two world wars failed to kill the TDF.

wolfix said:

" Like everything, when one leaves another arrives. I don't know why Lance retired really,but it is his choice. Personally after everything that was written about him after the race last year[the allegation of Armstrong using EPO during the 1999 Tour] I would have liked to have seen him come back, kick everyone's butt, and not say a word to th press. It would serve them right."
Bernard Hinault
Public Relations TDF

Lance will be honored as soon as the TDF purges LeBlanc. The world sees him and [censored] Pound for what they are.The greats of cycling want to see him honored.... Merckx, Indurain, Hinault, Ullrich, and Basso all would welcome him back. Only the second tier riders have a problem with him.

I think it is clear that the greatest TdF rider France has produced and perhaps the greatest all around rider France has produced respects Lance and his accomplishments, and clearly sannot stand that fat piece of lard Jean Marie LeBlanc.

Hinault obviously is PART OF ASO and is drawing the line in the sand.
Lance's reputation in France has been hurt by LeBlanc and L'Equipe but the many French cyclists I met on the roads of the TdF in 2003 and 2005 are fans of Lance and are many in number.

The cycle shop at the foot of Alpe d"huez had more Discovery kit that you can find ANYWHERE in the US and when I asked the owner said he couldnt keep it in stock.