Discovery in disarray.... ?

whiteboytrash said:

Oh dear... another American who thinks he know Europe... Jan Ullrich has out polled Shuey as Germany's No.1 Sports star many years running...

That must be at your house.

"Schumacher voted top German sports star of 20th century"

"Rounding out the top 10 were: boxer Max Schmeling in sixth, one-time Tour de France champion Jan Ullrich seventh, swimmer Franziska van Almsick eighth, Germany striker Gerd Mueller ninth and Germany goalkeeper Oliver Kahn 10th."

http://www.rediff.com/sports/2004/nov/20foot.htm

saluki said:

Michael Schumacher is the biggest sporting star in Germany. He holds all the Formula 1 records. No one knows why Jan rides his bike. They only know that he doesn't ride it much..

Intresting that you know all this, Michael Schumacher, Michael Ballack and Jan Ullrich are pretty much on the same level (of popularity). People know it when Jan is doing a training camp, people know it when he starts at Circuit De La Sarthe, people know when he doesn't start at Sarthe. Obvliously you don't have a clue, WBT is right, with the only remark i would make he is on the same level as the 2 other sporting stars i mentioned above. By the way i live in Germany (since 1993). Cycling got very popular in the western part of Germany (in the eastern part, the former DDR it was always popular) after the first results of Ullrich and Zabel, the Vuelta and the Giro are dreaming of getting as much people on the streets to see cycling races as organizers in Germany have. Even smaller one day races like the Cologn classics have over a million spectators here...

saluki said:

That must be at your house.

"Schumacher voted top German sports star of 20th century"

"Rounding out the top 10 were: boxer Max Schmeling in sixth, one-time Tour de France champion Jan Ullrich seventh, swimmer Franziska van Almsick eighth, Germany striker Gerd Mueller ninth and Germany goalkeeper Oliver Kahn 10th."

rediff.com20foot.htmOpen ↗

Yes and Michael Jackson is number one in the charts:p

saluki said:

That must be at your house.

"Schumacher voted top German sports star of 20th century"

"Rounding out the top 10 were: boxer Max Schmeling in sixth, one-time Tour de France champion Jan Ullrich seventh, swimmer Franziska van Almsick eighth, Germany striker Gerd Mueller ninth and Germany goalkeeper Oliver Kahn 10th."

http://www.rediff.com/sports/2004/nov/20foot.htm

While I read the link - a poll of tops German sportstars that doesn't include the likes of Boris Becker in it's top 10, leaves a lot to be desired.

Ullrich topped the polls in respect of Bild magazine for several years.
Der Spiegel also stated that Ullrich was their readers favourite sportsperson.

And in respect of the profile of cycling in Germany, WBT is correct.
Ullrich and Zabel's success have ensured that the sport's profile is huge in Germany.

Cycle Sport May 2005 reported that the turnout of fans for the Tour of Germany was huge - "beyond even our most hopeful expectations" - according to the race organiser.
The race organiser said that "this turnout is a large measure to the success of German-based professional teams like TMO and Gerolsteiner".

Ullrich's popularity in Germany - in what is a minority sport - is evident.

cyclingheroes said:

Yes and Michael Jackson is number one in the charts:p

...and David Hasselholf ! :p

Thanks Lim and further to my point that Jan Ullrich is bigger in Germany than Armstrong is in the US. T-Mobile have made much money in terms of their no.1 man. period. Its hurts being this good ! :p

Now who is Armstrong dating this week ? or do we need to tune into his radio show for that one ! LOL ! :p

limerickman said:

While I read the link - a poll of tops German sportstars that doesn't include the likes of Boris Becker in it's top 10, leaves a lot to be desired.

Ullrich topped the polls in respect of Bild magazine for several years.
Der Spiegel also stated that Ullrich was their readers favourite sportsperson.

And in respect of the profile of cycling in Germany, WBT is correct.
Ullrich and Zabel's success have ensured that the sport's profile is huge in Germany.

Cycle Sport May 2005 reported that the turnout of fans for the Tour of Germany was huge - "beyond even our most hopeful expectations" - according to the race organiser.
The race organiser said that "this turnout is a large measure to the success of German-based professional teams like TMO and Gerolsteiner".

Ullrich's popularity in Germany - in what is a minority sport - is evident.

whiteboytrash said:

Thanks Lim and further to my point that Jan Ullrich is bigger in Germany than Armstrong is in the US. T-Mobile have made much money in terms of their no.1 man. period. Its hurts being this good ! :p

Now who is Armstrong dating this week ? or do we need to tune into his radio show for that one ! LOL ! :p

The facts speak for themselves : Saluki's incorrect in terms of Ullrich and popularity in Germany.

I was in Berlin on business two years ago and I was surprised at just how well known Ullrich is, with the people I met (non-cycling people).
It reminded me of the extent to which Indurain's profile also resonates in Spain.

Actually just looking at the Germany poll of the 20th century stars :
why isn't the likes of Bernhard Langer there ? Langer won Grand Slam tournaments. He was the manager of the Ryder Cup team that beat the USA - in America. He was a player on several rider cup winning teams in the USA Where's his name???
The man had corporate sponsorship from well know German companies, Audi and SAP. Why isn't he on that list?

Boris Becker too (as mentioned earlier).

Beckenbauer and Muller and Kahn's inclusion I can understand.

But omitting Becker and Langer in the top 10 is very strange.
Fuzzy poll, I think.

limerickman said:

Actually just looking at the Germany poll of the 20th century stars :
why isn't the likes of Bernhard Langer there ? Langer won Grand Slam tournaments. He was the manager of the Ryder Cup team that beat the USA - in America. He was a player on several rider cup winning teams in the USA Where's his name???
The man had corporate sponsorship from well know German companies, Audi and SAP. Why isn't he on that list?

Boris Becker too (as mentioned earlier).

Beckenbauer and Muller and Kahn's inclusion I can understand.

But omitting Becker and Langer in the top 10 is very strange.
Fuzzy poll, I think.

Because Langer isn't very popular here...

cyclingheroes said:

Because Langer isn't very popular here...

Ryder Cup winning player and Ryder Cup winning manager and Germany's greatest ever golfer - with German corporate sponsors - isn't popular????

Why not, can I ask?

limerickman said:

Ryder Cup winning player and Ryder Cup winning manager and Germany's greatest ever golfer - with German corporate sponsors - isn't popular????

Why not, can I ask?

Very low profile media coverage. BUT that list is a joke, as you mentioned Boris Becker still is one of the big stars in Germany (as a matter a fact he was on a TV show yesterday evening, together with Günter Netzer, Franciska van Almsick and Jan - it was a quizz show for charity organisations). The list was made for another TV show, i think it's not very representive.

cyclingheroes said:

Very low profile media coverage. BUT that list is a joke, as you mentioned Boris Becker still is one of the big stars in Germany (as a matter a fact he was on a TV show yesterday evening, together with Günter Netzer, Franciska van Almsick and Jan - it was a quizz show for charity organisations). The list was made for another TV show, i think it's not very representive.

Thanks.

I remember Günter Netzer from the 1970 World Cup in Mexico : a great player.

whiteboytrash said:

Our man Jan, makes mistakes but we love him for it

You lovable losers!

rejobako said:

You lovable losers!

........1997 TDF results begs to differ.

limerickman said:

While I read the link - a poll of tops German sportstars that doesn't include the likes of Boris Becker in it's top 10, leaves a lot to be desired.

Obviously you didn't read the link or else you are reading impaired. Boris is number five on the list.

Apparently you, Trash, and Cyclingheroes are nothing but hot air. I gave you a link that proved that Germans consider Shumacher the number one sportsman and that had Ullrich as number seven and all you give me back are you own worthless and unsupported opinions.

saluki said:

Obviously you didn't read the link or else you are reading impaired. Boris is number five on the list.

Apparently you, Trash, and Cyclingheroes are nothing but hot air. I gave you a link that proved that Germans consider Shumacher the number one sportsman and that had Ullrich as number seven and all you give me back are you own worthless and unsupported opinions.

Here's a link showing Ullrich winning sportspersonality of the year in 2003
(beating schumy)

http://sport.iafrica.com/news/293034.htm

Do we really need to list out all his other wins?

limerickman said:

Here's a link showing Ullrich winning sportspersonality of the year in 2003
(beating schumy)

sport.iafrica.com293034.htmOpen ↗

Do we really need to list out all his other wins?

Okay Lim, let's look at what we have in your link.

First, your link is worthless because it is from a poll of 3000 German sports journalists. My link involves 100,000 ordinary Germans. Trash's comment was about Ullrich being the most popular sports star in Germany - not the most popular with sports journalists.

Second, my link is from 2004, yours from 2003. Mine is a better reflection of current reality.

Third, your link also disproves Trash's comment because it shows Hannah Stockbauer getting 4670 points while Ullrich only got 3388 points.

Fourth, while your link shows Shumi comming in second to Jan in the men's category. Mine shows Ullrich coming in seventh overall with Shumi coming in as athelete of the decade.

message 790

saluki said:

Michael Schumacher is the biggest sporting star in Germany. He holds all the Formula 1 records.

He wasn't in 2003.
http://sport.iafrica.com/news/293034.htm

Nor was he 1997 either :

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/jan98/jan23.html

Nor was he in 2000 according to ARDTV (a German TV channel).

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/5375.0.html

message 790

saluki said:

No one knows why Jan rides his bike. They only know that he doesn't ride it much

No one knows? That's why JU's personally sponsored by Addidas because no one knows JU or why he rides his bike.
That's why JU's personally sponsored by Telekom because no one knows JU or why he rides his bike.

Major company sponsors someone who know no one knows - that's a laugh

saluki said:

Okay Lim, let's look at what we have in your link.

First, your link is worthless because it is from a poll of 3000 German sports journalists. My link involves 100,000 ordinary Germans. Trash's comment was about Ullrich being the most popular sports star in Germany - not the most popular with sports journalists.

How many people watch ARD TV ?

saluki said:

Second, my link is from 2004, yours from 2003. Mine is a better reflection of current reality.

Current reality is 2006.

But if we accept you premise 1997 too could be considered current reality.

saluki said:

Fourth, while your link shows Shumi comming in second to Jan in the men's category. Mine shows Ullrich coming in seventh overall with Shumi coming in as athelete of the decade.

........but you contended in message 790 that Schumy was more popular than JU.
He isn't or wasn't.

limerickman said:

........1997 TDF results begs to differ.

C'mon, Lim. I thought this was settled a couple of days ago. Cycling didn't exist before 1999. 😉

saluki said:

I gave you a link that proved that Germans consider Shumacher the number one sportsman.

No it didn't proof anything. Around the year 2000 there where several lists with the best pop song, the best sportsman, the best etc. etc. One list said the best pop song was Yesterday, by the Beatles, the next said it was Thriller by Michael Jackson, almost every magazine and tv stations made their own lists, i don't know anybody who was asked by the media who made these lists, the list is nor representing the German people: Your list is hot air.