dietary fat & cardio deaths: quality not quantity

Typical nonsense "study." Peoples have used coconut oil and palm
kernel oils as dietary staples for thousands of years, and some still
do, and yet, no heart disease. The problem is how unhealthy "red meat"
is, not the saturated fatty acids. It's all about oxidative stress as
the mechanism, and it's the polyunsaturated fatty acids in meat, not
the saturated ones, than can produce oxidative stress, though the iron
content, the oxidized cholesterol, the high tryptophan content, etc.
are also problems. Also, there is the social factor, that is, those
who say they eat less "saturated fat" generally take care of themselves
better than those who say "I just eat what I want, and I love pork
rinds aned greasy burgers." Basically, this kind of "study" is more of
a sociological document than a scientific one.
I've been packing my body with loads of highly saturated fats and
non-oxidized cholesterol for a few years now. These substances should
be dietary staples, not avoided as if they were "disease causing." I'm
the only one in my family (I'm 40, they are old or a few years younger)
who is not obese and does not have a "chronic disease." A recent MRA
showed no signs of atherosclerotic plaque. My cholesterol was 209 with
63 HDL and 129 LDL on the last test, and the glucose was 75. TGs were
in normal range.

Zee said:

Dietary Fat Quality May be More Important Than Fat Quantity in

Reducing

Quoted message said:

Risk of Cardiovascular Deaths in Middle-Aged Men

CHICAGO - The type of dietary fats consumed by middle-aged men,
especially polyunsaturated fats and linoleic acids, may be more
important than total fat intake in reducing the risk of

cardiovascular

Quoted message said:

deaths, according to a study in the January 24 issue of Archives of
Internal Medicine.

According to background information in the article, substitution of
dietary polyunsaturated fat has been recommended for several decades

in

Quoted message said:

the primary prevention of cardiovascular disease (CVD), but few

studies

Quoted message said:

have provided scientific support for the advice. Some metabolic
studies show that polyunsaturated fats lower serum low-density
lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) concentration [the so-called 'bad
cholesterol'], while saturated fat increases LDL-C. Linoleic acid
is a liquid polyunsaturated fatty acid abundant in plant fat and oils
(e.g., flaxseed, linseed oil).

David E. Laaksonen, M.D., Ph.D., from University of Kuopio, Finland,
and colleagues, assessed the dietary linoleic and total

polyunsaturated

Quoted message said:

fatty acid (PUFA) intake with cardiovascular and overall rates of

death

Quoted message said:

in 1,551 middle-aged men living in eastern Finland. The

assessments

Quoted message said:

were made through food records and blood tests for glucose and serum
cholesterol levels.

"During the 15-year follow-up, 78 men died of CVD and 225 of any
cause," the researchers report. "Middle-aged men with proportions
of serum linoleic acid, n-6 (omega-6) fatty acids, and especially

PUFA

Quoted message said:

in the upper third were up to three times less likely to die of CVD
than men with proportions in the lower third. Dietary intake of
linoleic acid and total PUFA as assessed with a 4-day food record was
also inversely associated with CVD, but total fat intake was not."

In conclusion the authors write: "Dietary fat quality thus seems more
important than fat quantity in the reduction of CVD mortality in
middle-aged men. Carrying out recommendations to replace saturated

fat

Quoted message said:

with polyunsaturated fat in the primary prevention of cardiovascular
disease may substantially decrease CVD and to a lesser degree overall
mortality."

(Arch Intern Med. 2005;165: 193-199.

montygram said:

Typical nonsense "study." Peoples have used coconut oil and palm
kernel oils as dietary staples for thousands of years, and some still
do, and yet, no heart disease. The problem is how unhealthy "red

meat"

Quoted message said:

is, not the saturated fatty acids. It's all about oxidative stress

as

Quoted message said:

the mechanism, and it's the polyunsaturated fatty acids in meat, not
the saturated ones, than can produce oxidative stress, though the

iron

Quoted message said:

content, the oxidized cholesterol, the high tryptophan content, etc.
are also problems. Also, there is the social factor, that is, those
who say they eat less "saturated fat" generally take care of

themselves

Quoted message said:

better than those who say "I just eat what I want, and I love pork
rinds aned greasy burgers." Basically, this kind of "study" is more

of

Quoted message said:

a sociological document than a scientific one.
I've been packing my body with loads of highly saturated fats and
non-oxidized cholesterol for a few years now. These substances

should

Quoted message said:

be dietary staples, not avoided as if they were "disease causing."

I'm

Quoted message said:

the only one in my family (I'm 40, they are old or a few years

younger)

Quoted message said:

who is not obese and does not have a "chronic disease." A recent MRA
showed no signs of atherosclerotic plaque. My cholesterol was 209

with

Quoted message said:

63 HDL and 129 LDL on the last test, and the glucose was 75. TGs

were

Quoted message said:

in normal range.

Zee said:

Dietary Fat Quality May be More Important Than Fat Quantity in

Reducing

Quoted message said:

Risk of Cardiovascular Deaths in Middle-Aged Men

CHICAGO - The type of dietary fats consumed by middle-aged men,
especially polyunsaturated fats and linoleic acids, may be more
important than total fat intake in reducing the risk of

cardiovascular

Quoted message said:

deaths, according to a study in the January 24 issue of Archives of
Internal Medicine.

According to background information in the article, substitution of
dietary polyunsaturated fat has been recommended for several

decades

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

the primary prevention of cardiovascular disease (CVD), but few

studies

Quoted message said:

have provided scientific support for the advice. Some metabolic
studies show that polyunsaturated fats lower serum low-density
lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) concentration [the so-called 'bad
cholesterol'], while saturated fat increases LDL-C. Linoleic

acid

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is a liquid polyunsaturated fatty acid abundant in plant fat and

oils

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(e.g., flaxseed, linseed oil).

David E. Laaksonen, M.D., Ph.D., from University of Kuopio,

Finland,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and colleagues, assessed the dietary linoleic and total

polyunsaturated

Quoted message said:

fatty acid (PUFA) intake with cardiovascular and overall rates of

death

Quoted message said:

in 1,551 middle-aged men living in eastern Finland. The

assessments

Quoted message said:

were made through food records and blood tests for glucose and

serum

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cholesterol levels.

"During the 15-year follow-up, 78 men died of CVD and 225 of any
cause," the researchers report. "Middle-aged men with proportions
of serum linoleic acid, n-6 (omega-6) fatty acids, and especially

PUFA

Quoted message said:

in the upper third were up to three times less likely to die of CVD
than men with proportions in the lower third. Dietary intake of
linoleic acid and total PUFA as assessed with a 4-day food record

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

also inversely associated with CVD, but total fat intake was not."

In conclusion the authors write: "Dietary fat quality thus seems

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

important than fat quantity in the reduction of CVD mortality in
middle-aged men. Carrying out recommendations to replace saturated

fat

Quoted message said:

with polyunsaturated fat in the primary prevention of

cardiovascular

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

disease may substantially decrease CVD and to a lesser degree

overall

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mortality."

(Arch Intern Med. 2005;165: 193-199.

I really have no set ideas here. It seems to me many men have
cardiovascular problems beginning in their 40s no matter how they eat;
eat like you describe, or eat like me--modified Mediterranean. (I
wouldn't dare touch coconut oil or palm oil). I am constantly amazed at
the different ways of eating that seem to work for different
individuals.

Zee

I am curious as to how or if one differentiates between cardiovascular
disease and lesions from age related narrowing of the arteries without
lesions.

I plead ignorance on the subject and am just trying to figure out if
narrowing of the arteries is in itself cardiovascular disease or whether
there has to be a lesion along with the narrowing in order for there to be
a diagnosis of cardiovascular disease.

I can mentally picture water pipes with calcium deposits narrowing with time
because of lime and other mineral deposits. I can also picture water pipes
with a structural defect in the pipe which may eventually fail along with
the mineral deposits.

In such a simplistic picture I can visualize the water pipes without the
structural defect in the pipes continue to cary water for quite some time
(although with a higher velocity because of the narrowing) without actually
bursting. I suppose that the higher velocity caused by the narrowing could
in itself increase the pressure in the pipe and eventually cause a
structural failure in the pipe. Is this how it works? Does anyone really
know?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(Arch Intern Med. 2005;165: 193-199.

I really have no set ideas here. It seems to me many men have
cardiovascular problems beginning in their 40s no matter how they eat;
eat like you describe, or eat like me--modified Mediterranean. (I
wouldn't dare touch coconut oil or palm oil).

Bsed on, exactly, what?

I am constantly amazed at

Quoted message said:

the different ways of eating that seem to work for different
individuals.

"Work"? They lived longer? Felt better? Died of something unexpected for
their peer group? Be specific.

m