Detained at the whim of the president



P

Polybus

Guest
Detained at the whim of the president (Deborah Pearlstein IHT)

Guantánamo

NEW YORK The Bush administration has taken several important steps in recent days to resolve the
legal status of some of the hundreds of people that the United States has detained without access to
lawyers for the better part of two years. . Last weekend, the administration indicated that it would
begin repatriating some of the 660 people detained without any judicial review at the U.S. naval
base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. A few days later, the Pentagon announced that it would begin making
arrangements to allow Yasser Esam Hamdi, a U.S. citizen, access to a lawyer after more than 20
months of incommunicado military detention. . These steps are welcome. But they should be understood
as part of a broader strategy. The announcement on Guantánamo comes just weeks after the Supreme
Court decided to review a lower court holding that the federal courts had no jurisdiction to
evaluate the legality of the Guantánamo detentions. And the decision to allow Hamdi access to a
lawyer was announced on the day final briefs were due to the Supreme Court, which is now deciding
whether to take the case. It is difficult to see the timing as coincidental. For the past two years,
the Bush administration - far more so than previous "wartime" executives - has been very effective
at keeping the courts out of the business of checking executive power. . In the two years since the
Sept. 11 attacks, the administration has established a set of extra-legal structures designed to
bypass the federal judiciary. It has maintained that those detained by the United States outside
U.S. borders - at Guantánamo and elsewhere - are beyond the jurisdictional reach of the U.S. courts
altogether. Individuals subject to military commission proceedings - which two years after their
announced creation have yet to begin - are to have their fate decided by military personnel who
report only to the president. . In the "enemy combatant" cases involving U.S. citizens that have
made their way into lower courts, the administration has balked at observing a federal court order
requiring that it give its detainee-citizens access to counsel, and has consistently demanded of the
courts something less than independent judicial review. . This refusal to be bound by established
rules - to pursue ad hoc justice at best - is what makes the recent steps of small comfort. And
while the military released 20 Guantánamo prisoners last week, those released were simultaneously
replaced with the same number of new prisoners. It is unclear who the new arrivals are, where they
were held before arriving at Guantánamo, and what will be their fate now that they are there.
Likewise, it remains unclear how the administration determined which prisoners should be released,
which must stay, and which - if any - will eventually be brought before military commissions for
actual determinations of their status as prisoners of war, or their guilt or innocence of any
particular offense. . What is more striking is that the Pentagon, in announcing that it would be
making arrangements for Hamdi to have access to a lawyer "over the next few days," insisted that
such access was only being granted "as a matter of discretion and military policy," not to comply
with any requirement of domestic or international law. Indeed, the Pentagon maintains that its
decision for Hamdi should not in any way "be treated as a precedent" to be used in any other such
"combatant" case. . In any event, the decision to grant Hamdi access to counsel after nearly two
years did not commit the administration to providing any more than that - for example, international
law protections for the treatment of prisoners of war, or constitutional requirements that he be
afforded notice of any charges against him and an opportunity to be heard by an independent court. .
As made clear in the cases that the administration has cited in support of its sweeping claims of
authority - including the use of military tribunals and the internment of Japanese-Americans during
World War II - the Supreme Court has not always acted to enforce rights in favor of the individual
against the executive asserting special "wartime" power. But the Supreme Court's involvement in
those cases conveyed a critical message that even in times of greatest strain, executive power
remained subject to the rule of law. The court's published opinions clarified the nature of the
executive's claims of authority, and provided a basis against which to judge the executive's
subsequent conduct. . In vigorous and public dissenting opinions, minority justices in those cases
gave expression to the strong opposing arguments on the resolution of the legal questions presented.
Perhaps most important, the Supreme Court's decisions provided Congress, legal scholars and the
American public a means for understanding and, in the relative calm of postwar decision-making, for
re-evaluating the political wisdom of the executive's conduct. . In 1971, Congress established that
"no citizen" shall be "detained by the United States except pursuant to an Act of Congress." And in
1988, Congress awarded reparations to the remaining survivors and descendants of Japanese-American
citizens interned by the military during World War II. . Despite the Bush administration's best
efforts of late to convey the appearance of action, the Supreme Court - poised to hear the
Guantánamo case, and now deciding whether to hear the case of Hamdi - should not be misled by
atmospherics. At stake in the cases now at the court's doorstep is one of America's most basic
ideals as a nation - that the rule of law is a matter of right, not a matter of grace. . The writer
directs the U.S. Law and Security Program for the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, and is editor
of "Assessing the New Normal," a book on liberty and security in the United States since the Sept.
11 attacks.
 
Listen, the little dicktater is worried that all this is going to hurt his chances of re-election,
since all the democratic challengers are beating on these issues day in and day out in the press.

Thankfully, that little ***** won't be re-elected for a second term.

"Polybus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Detained at the whim of the president (Deborah Pearlstein IHT)
>
> Guantánamo
>
> NEW YORK The Bush administration has taken several important steps in recent days to resolve the
> legal status of some of the hundreds of people that the United States has detained without access
> to lawyers for the better part of two years. . Last weekend, the administration indicated that it
> would begin repatriating some of the 660 people detained without any judicial review at the U.S.
> naval base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. A few days later, the Pentagon announced that it would begin
> making arrangements to allow Yasser Esam Hamdi, a U.S. citizen, access to a lawyer after more than
> 20 months of incommunicado military detention. . These steps are welcome. But they should be
> understood as part of a broader strategy. The announcement on Guantánamo comes just weeks after
> the Supreme Court decided to review a lower court holding that the federal courts had no
> jurisdiction to evaluate the legality of the Guantánamo detentions. And the decision to allow
> Hamdi access to a lawyer was announced on the day final briefs were due to the Supreme Court,
> which is now deciding whether to take the case. It is difficult to see the timing as coincidental.
> For the past two years, the Bush administration - far more so than previous "wartime" executives -
> has been very effective at keeping the courts out of the business of checking executive power. .
> In the two years since the Sept. 11 attacks, the administration has established a set of extra-
> legal structures designed to bypass the federal judiciary. It has maintained that those detained
> by the United States outside U.S. borders - at Guantánamo and elsewhere - are beyond the
> jurisdictional reach of the U.S. courts altogether. Individuals subject to military commission
> proceedings - which two years after their announced creation have yet to begin - are to have their
> fate decided by military personnel who report only to the president. . In the "enemy combatant"
> cases involving U.S. citizens that have made their way into lower courts, the administration has
> balked at observing a federal court order requiring that it give its detainee-citizens access to
> counsel, and has consistently demanded of the courts something less than independent judicial
> review. . This refusal to be bound by established rules - to pursue ad hoc justice at best - is
> what makes the recent steps of small comfort. And while the military released 20 Guantánamo
> prisoners last week, those released were simultaneously replaced with the same number of new
> prisoners. It is unclear who the new arrivals are, where they were held before arriving at
> Guantánamo, and what will be their fate now that they are there. Likewise, it remains unclear how
> the administration determined which prisoners should be released, which must stay, and which - if
> any - will eventually be brought before military commissions for actual determinations of their
> status as prisoners of war, or their guilt or innocence of any particular offense. . What is more
> striking is that the Pentagon, in announcing that it would be making arrangements for Hamdi to
> have access to a lawyer "over the next few days," insisted that such access was only being granted
> "as a matter of discretion and military policy," not to comply with any requirement of domestic or
> international law. Indeed, the Pentagon maintains that its decision for Hamdi should not in any
> way "be treated as a precedent" to be used in any other such "combatant" case. . In any event, the
> decision to grant Hamdi access to counsel after nearly two years did not commit the administration
> to providing any more than that - for example, international law protections for the treatment of
> prisoners of war, or constitutional requirements that he be afforded notice of any charges against
> him and an opportunity to be heard by an independent court. . As made clear in the cases that the
> administration has cited in support of its sweeping claims of authority - including the use of
> military tribunals and the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II - the Supreme
> Court has not always acted to enforce rights in favor of the individual against the executive
> asserting special "wartime" power. But the Supreme Court's involvement in those cases conveyed a
> critical message that even in times of greatest strain, executive power remained subject to the
> rule of law. The court's published opinions clarified the nature of the executive's claims of
> authority, and provided a basis against which to judge the executive's subsequent conduct. . In
> vigorous and public dissenting opinions, minority justices in those cases gave expression to the
> strong opposing arguments on the resolution of the legal questions presented. Perhaps most
> important, the Supreme Court's decisions provided Congress, legal scholars and the American public
> a means for understanding and, in the relative calm of postwar decision-making, for re-evaluating
> the political wisdom of the executive's conduct. . In 1971, Congress established that "no citizen"
> shall be "detained by the United States except pursuant to an Act of Congress." And in 1988,
> Congress awarded reparations to the remaining survivors and descendants of Japanese-American
> citizens interned by the military during World War II. . Despite the Bush administration's best
> efforts of late to convey the appearance of action, the Supreme Court - poised to hear the
> Guantánamo case, and now deciding whether to hear the case of Hamdi - should not be misled by
> atmospherics. At stake in the cases now at the court's doorstep is one of America's most basic
> ideals as a nation - that the rule of law is a matter of right, not a matter of grace. . The
> writer directs the U.S. Law and Security Program for the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, and
> is editor of "Assessing the New Normal," a book on liberty and security in the United States since
> the Sept. 11 attacks.
 
they should have killed them immediately and then all the bleeding hearts wouldn't be whining about
the government detaining fanatical muslims that want to kill all of us because we are not fanatical
muslims too.

"Polybus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Detained at the whim of the president (Deborah Pearlstein IHT)
>
> Guantánamo
>
> NEW YORK The Bush administration has taken several important steps in recent days to resolve the
> legal status of some of the hundreds of people that the United States has detained without access
> to lawyers for the better part of two years. . Last weekend, the administration indicated that it
> would begin repatriating some of the 660 people detained without any judicial review at the U.S.
> naval base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. A few days later, the Pentagon announced that it would begin
> making arrangements to allow Yasser Esam Hamdi, a U.S. citizen, access to a lawyer after more than
> 20 months of incommunicado military detention. . These steps are welcome. But they should be
> understood as part of a broader strategy. The announcement on Guantánamo comes just weeks after
> the Supreme Court decided to review a lower court holding that the federal courts had no
> jurisdiction to evaluate the legality of the Guantánamo detentions. And the decision to allow
> Hamdi access to a lawyer was announced on the day final briefs were due to the Supreme Court,
> which is now deciding whether to take the case. It is difficult to see the timing as coincidental.
> For the past two years, the Bush administration - far more so than previous "wartime" executives -
> has been very effective at keeping the courts out of the business of checking executive power. .
> In the two years since the Sept. 11 attacks, the administration has established a set of extra-
> legal structures designed to bypass the federal judiciary. It has maintained that those detained
> by the United States outside U.S. borders - at Guantánamo and elsewhere - are beyond the
> jurisdictional reach of the U.S. courts altogether. Individuals subject to military commission
> proceedings - which two years after their announced creation have yet to begin - are to have their
> fate decided by military personnel who report only to the president. . In the "enemy combatant"
> cases involving U.S. citizens that have made their way into lower courts, the administration has
> balked at observing a federal court order requiring that it give its detainee-citizens access to
> counsel, and has consistently demanded of the courts something less than independent judicial
> review. . This refusal to be bound by established rules - to pursue ad hoc justice at best - is
> what makes the recent steps of small comfort. And while the military released 20 Guantánamo
> prisoners last week, those released were simultaneously replaced with the same number of new
> prisoners. It is unclear who the new arrivals are, where they were held before arriving at
> Guantánamo, and what will be their fate now that they are there. Likewise, it remains unclear how
> the administration determined which prisoners should be released, which must stay, and which - if
> any - will eventually be brought before military commissions for actual determinations of their
> status as prisoners of war, or their guilt or innocence of any particular offense. . What is more
> striking is that the Pentagon, in announcing that it would be making arrangements for Hamdi to
> have access to a lawyer "over the next few days," insisted that such access was only being granted
> "as a matter of discretion and military policy," not to comply with any requirement of domestic or
> international law. Indeed, the Pentagon maintains that its decision for Hamdi should not in any
> way "be treated as a precedent" to be used in any other such "combatant" case. . In any event, the
> decision to grant Hamdi access to counsel after nearly two years did not commit the administration
> to providing any more than that - for example, international law protections for the treatment of
> prisoners of war, or constitutional requirements that he be afforded notice of any charges against
> him and an opportunity to be heard by an independent court. . As made clear in the cases that the
> administration has cited in support of its sweeping claims of authority - including the use of
> military tribunals and the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II - the Supreme
> Court has not always acted to enforce rights in favor of the individual against the executive
> asserting special "wartime" power. But the Supreme Court's involvement in those cases conveyed a
> critical message that even in times of greatest strain, executive power remained subject to the
> rule of law. The court's published opinions clarified the nature of the executive's claims of
> authority, and provided a basis against which to judge the executive's subsequent conduct. . In
> vigorous and public dissenting opinions, minority justices in those cases gave expression to the
> strong opposing arguments on the resolution of the legal questions presented. Perhaps most
> important, the Supreme Court's decisions provided Congress, legal scholars and the American public
> a means for understanding and, in the relative calm of postwar decision-making, for re-evaluating
> the political wisdom of the executive's conduct. . In 1971, Congress established that "no citizen"
> shall be "detained by the United States except pursuant to an Act of Congress." And in 1988,
> Congress awarded reparations to the remaining survivors and descendants of Japanese-American
> citizens interned by the military during World War II. . Despite the Bush administration's best
> efforts of late to convey the appearance of action, the Supreme Court - poised to hear the
> Guantánamo case, and now deciding whether to hear the case of Hamdi - should not be misled by
> atmospherics. At stake in the cases now at the court's doorstep is one of America's most basic
> ideals as a nation - that the rule of law is a matter of right, not a matter of grace. . The
> writer directs the U.S. Law and Security Program for the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, and
> is editor of "Assessing the New Normal," a book on liberty and security in the United States since
> the Sept. 11 attacks.
 
"Mike Dobony" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Hold that thought. He shouldn't be re-elected. He should be impeached.
>>
>>
>
>For doing trhe right thing? Either we deal with these murderers now or they would continue to deal
>with us later. This so-called citizen gave up those rights by serving in a foreign military. By
>joining teh foreign military he ceased to be a US citizen just as one does when one desires
>citizenship in another country. In order to join a foreign military one customarily swares an oath
>to that country. He therefore gave up all rights as a citizen.

Hmmm, you concede he was serving in a foreign military. Thank makes him a soldier by definition, and
protected by the Geneva convention.

If he was not a soldier in a foreign military, he did nothing to forfeit his rights as a US citizen.

This "illegal combatent" label will never stand up in a court of law. That is why Bush and his
puppeteers are so eager to avoid a judical review.

At some point in the future, I hope the Bush administration is charged with violating the Geneva
convention and committing war crimes, so that an international court can determine their guilt or
innocence.

>That crybaby needing-his-diaper-changed, spoiled rotton brat Gore would have just let the
>terrorists continue on their merry way preparing to attack again and again and again.

Wht do you think, if Gore was President, that the attack would have occured?

--
Stephen

There were no weapons of mass destruction, just words of mass deception.
 
user <[email protected]> wrote:

>What the heck are you talking about Mike? It isn't about the US pissing off the Muslims, its all
>about free societies pissing off the Muslims for simply that, being free.

Hmmm... as near as I can see, the Muslims, even the Fundie ones, are prepared to share the planet.
The problem is the US going where the oil is, and that, for the most part, is where the Muslims are.

The Fundie Muslims would be happy to leave the oil in the ground. That is why the US supports "Royal
Families" and dictators who will produce the oil.

Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. That was a lie.

The US only deposes dictators that they don't like. The claim that they are liberating the people is
a lie. (Why not liberate the people in Zimbabwee or China?

Going into Afghanistan was an attempt to get a pipeline for Caspian Sea oil, that did not go through
Russia, but they outsmarted the US by being a 'friend' and invading (securring) the north.

Now you are in Iraq to ensure that their oil comes on the world markets and you are going to steal
enough of it to rebuilt their country that you destroyed. And you pay inflated prices to US
contractors who will funnel some of the proceeds to the Republicans.

>watch CNN and call this "Bush's War"!!!! C;mon grow some stones and fight back! Do you have the
>STONES to stand up to them???? I'm dam

I think Bill Mahar had it right. It doen't take *stones* to fire a $100,000 guided missil at a
target 10 miles away.

Now that the troops are on the ground, and seeing their buddies become causualties, we are starting
to see desertions (not reported by the US media, so you won't know about this) and growing
opposition at home.

>sure glad we have a president AND a congress (yes dorothy you seem to forget they bilateraly voted
>FOR this action).

If Bush did not lie about the WMD they probably would not have.

>What is wrong with you people??? You have no clue how American Government works??? Bush

It is bought and paid for by big business, especially the big oil business.

The Christian Fundies have taken control of the Republican party and let business plunder the
foreign heathens in exchange for putting Ashcroft and his kind in charge of eliminating domestic
freedoms that the Fundies don;t like.

>couldn't have possibly done this on his own, he had support and guidance from the majority, which
>is how it works. Its so funny that

There is so much apathy in the US, that any claim to support of a majority is absurd. More people
voted for Gore than Bush. And what percentage of those eligible even voted at all?

>when we actually attacked these fanatics, these freedom haters, that the majority supported the
>action. Now that the going is tough, we now know who the weak are....thanks for showing us your
>true soul Mike

Hmmm, I kinda suspect that you supported the US being in Vietnam.

--
Stephen

Did Colin Powell know he was lying to the United Nations and US allies?
 
James Robinson <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Seems to me that the instant these 'detainees' arrived at Guantonamo they were on US soil and
>> were therefore entitled to the *full* protection of the US constitution. If not that means that
>> no one is protected. Tell me I am wrong; Someone?; Please?
>
>The Guantanamo base is leased from Cuba, and is therefore not US soil. That is one of the reasons
>it is being used, since it doesn't come directly under US law, at least that is the way Ashcroft
>is interpreting it. The US Supreme Court is going to hear arguments in the new year about that
>very subject.

The base must be under the jurisdiction of *someone*. And if it is not the US, then who?

Love to see the result if they argue that Casto has jurisdiction.

--
Stephen

Did Colin Powell know he was lying to the United Nations and US allies?
 
"Jarg" <[email protected]> wrote:

>And you have to use insult when your arguement is weak.

Weak? The denial of Geneva Convention rights is a weak argument?

Not a chance. You just cannot defend the indefensible so you try to avoid the issue.

Bush and his puppeteers are committing war crimes in Guantanemo Bay.

Hopefully they will someday be brought to trial.

--
Stephen

There were no weapons of mass destruction, just words of mass deception.
 
"Jarg" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Many nations including the US BUY Middle Eastern oil.

I wrote nothing about this. Are you trying to change the subject away from my arguments that you
cannot deal with?

>And I gues the Taliban sponsorship of Al Quaeda and the resulting attack that killed thousands of
>Americans had nothing to do with US actions in Afghanistan? Do you have any idea how illogical that
>is? I pity you for your paranoid view of the world.

The Taliban is a Fundy sect and supported one of their members. The Fundy sects in the US would do
the same, and they are doing the same.

I don't hear the Fundy leaders condemning Bush for the killing of innocent children in Iraq and
Afghanistan.

But, then, your government didn't care about the innocent children at Wacko, either. More important
to kill the bad guys.

While dropping bombs on the deserts of Afghanistan was good for the testosterone, it failed to get
Bin Lauden.

Seems fair to suggest that different tactics should have been followed. Fewer innocent people would
have been killed.

You could have asked the Israelies to get Bin Lauden. They have a much better record of success in
missions of this sort, than does the US.

--
Stephen

Did Colin Powell know he was lying to the United Nations and US allies?
 
"Mike Dobony" <[email protected]> wrote:

>You obviously do not know history or read the news. Muslims across the world are murdering non-
>Muslims (primarlily Christians and Jews) and trying to take control over nation's governments.

>It will NOT stop until Christ returns on his horse of war. Only then will there be true peace.

What a Fundy. What do you have to say about the Inquisition and the Crusades. Not to mention the
witch burnings.

And the Fundy takeover of the Republican party.

You are so alike the Muslim Fundies!

--
Stephen

There were no weapons of mass destruction, just words of mass deception.
 
"None" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... Listen, the little dicktater is worried
that all this is going to hurt his chances of re-election, since all the democratic challengers are
beating on these issues day in and day out in the press.

Thankfully, that little ***** won't be re-elected for a second term.

-----------------------

Hold that thought. He shouldn't be re-elected. He should be impeached.

Corse
 
Hey None, Just exactly what did you mean about "democratic" challengers? Didn't you mean to say
"Democrat"? Do you know the difference between the two words? Now, I'm not going to decide until
next November, when the election actually is,,,but don't you think it's a little early to Thank
anybody that the incumbent "won't" get re-elected?

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:11:03 GMT, "None" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Listen, the little dicktater is worried that all this is going to hurt his chances of re-election,
>since all the democratic challengers are beating on these issues day in and day out in the press.
>
>Thankfully, that little ***** won't be re-elected for a second term.
>
>
>
>"Polybus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Detained at the whim of the president (Deborah Pearlstein IHT)
>>
>> Guantánamo
>>
>> NEW YORK The Bush administration has taken several important steps in recent days to resolve the
>> legal status of some of the hundreds of people that the United States has detained without access
>> to lawyers for the better part of two years. . Last weekend, the administration indicated that it
>> would begin repatriating some of the 660 people detained without any judicial review at the U.S.
>> naval base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. A few days later, the Pentagon announced that it would begin
>> making arrangements to allow Yasser Esam Hamdi, a U.S. citizen, access to a lawyer after more
>> than 20 months of incommunicado military detention. . These steps are welcome. But they should be
>> understood as part of a broader strategy. The announcement on Guantánamo comes just weeks after
>> the Supreme Court decided to review a lower court holding that the federal courts had no
>> jurisdiction to evaluate the legality of the Guantánamo detentions. And the decision to allow
>> Hamdi access to a lawyer was announced on the day final briefs were due to the Supreme Court,
>> which is now deciding whether to take the case. It is difficult to see the timing as
>> coincidental. For the past two years, the Bush administration - far more so than previous
>> "wartime" executives - has been very effective at keeping the courts out of the business of
>> checking executive power. . In the two years since the Sept. 11 attacks, the administration has
>> established a set of extra-legal structures designed to bypass the federal judiciary. It has
>> maintained that those detained by the United States outside U.S. borders - at Guantánamo and
>> elsewhere - are beyond the jurisdictional reach of the U.S. courts altogether. Individuals
>> subject to military commission proceedings - which two years after their announced creation have
>> yet to begin - are to have their fate decided by military personnel who report only to the
>> president. . In the "enemy combatant" cases involving U.S. citizens that have made their way into
>> lower courts, the administration has balked at observing a federal court order requiring that it
>> give its detainee-citizens access to counsel, and has consistently demanded of the courts
>> something less than independent judicial review. . This refusal to be bound by established rules
>> - to pursue ad hoc justice at best - is what makes the recent steps of small comfort. And while
>> the military released 20 Guantánamo prisoners last week, those released were simultaneously
>> replaced with the same number of new prisoners. It is unclear who the new arrivals are, where
>> they were held before arriving at Guantánamo, and what will be their fate now that they are
>> there. Likewise, it remains unclear how the administration determined which prisoners should be
>> released, which must stay, and which - if any - will eventually be brought before military
>> commissions for actual determinations of their status as prisoners of war, or their guilt or
>> innocence of any particular offense. . What is more striking is that the Pentagon, in announcing
>> that it would be making arrangements for Hamdi to have access to a lawyer "over the next few
>> days," insisted that such access was only being granted "as a matter of discretion and military
>> policy," not to comply with any requirement of domestic or international law. Indeed, the
>> Pentagon maintains that its decision for Hamdi should not in any way "be treated as a precedent"
>> to be used in any other such "combatant" case. . In any event, the decision to grant Hamdi access
>> to counsel after nearly two years did not commit the administration to providing any more than
>> that - for example, international law protections for the treatment of prisoners of war, or
>> constitutional requirements that he be afforded notice of any charges against him and an
>> opportunity to be heard by an independent court. . As made clear in the cases that the
>> administration has cited in support of its sweeping claims of authority - including the use of
>> military tribunals and the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II - the Supreme
>> Court has not always acted to enforce rights in favor of the individual against the executive
>> asserting special "wartime" power. But the Supreme Court's involvement in those cases conveyed a
>> critical message that even in times of greatest strain, executive power remained subject to the
>> rule of law. The court's published opinions clarified the nature of the executive's claims of
>> authority, and provided a basis against which to judge the executive's subsequent conduct. . In
>> vigorous and public dissenting opinions, minority justices in those cases gave expression to the
>> strong opposing arguments on the resolution of the legal questions presented. Perhaps most
>> important, the Supreme Court's decisions provided Congress, legal scholars and the American
>> public a means for understanding and, in the relative calm of postwar decision-making, for re-
>> evaluating the political wisdom of the executive's conduct. . In 1971, Congress established that
>> "no citizen" shall be "detained by the United States except pursuant to an Act of Congress." And
>> in 1988, Congress awarded reparations to the remaining survivors and descendants of Japanese-
>> American citizens interned by the military during World War II. . Despite the Bush
>> administration's best efforts of late to convey the appearance of action, the Supreme Court -
>> poised to hear the Guantánamo case, and now deciding whether to hear the case of Hamdi - should
>> not be misled by atmospherics. At stake in the cases now at the court's doorstep is one of
>> America's most basic ideals as a nation - that the rule of law is a matter of right, not a matter
>> of grace. . The writer directs the U.S. Law and Security Program for the Lawyers Committee for
>> Human Rights, and is editor of "Assessing the New Normal," a book on liberty and security in the
>> United States since the Sept. 11 attacks.
 
"lexrex39" <[email protected]> wrote:

>they should have killed them immediately and then all the bleeding hearts wouldn't be whining about
>the government detaining fanatical muslims that want to kill all of us because we are not fanatical
>muslims too.
>
>
I gotta agree with this...

With some It's not possible to win. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"
 
<snipped>

Ah but he will be reelected. There is no strong personality to replace him.
 
"Corse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "None" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]... Listen, the little dicktater is
> worried that all this is going to hurt his chances of re-election, since all the democratic
> challengers are beating
on
> these issues day in and day out in the press.
>
> Thankfully, that little ***** won't be re-elected for a second term.
>
> -----------------------
>
> Hold that thought. He shouldn't be re-elected. He should be impeached.
>
>

For doing trhe right thing? Either we deal with these murderers now or they would continue to deal
with us later. This so-called citizen gave up those rights by serving in a foreign military. By
joining teh foreign military he ceased to be a US citizen just as one does when one desires
citizenship in another country. In order to join a foreign military one customarily swares an oath
to that country. He therefore gave up all rights as a citizen.

That crybaby needing-his-diaper-changed, spoiled rotton brat Gore would have just let the terrorists
continue on their merry way preparing to attack again and again and again.

> Corse
 
Corse wrote:
> "None" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]... Listen, the little dicktater is
> worried that all this is going to hurt his chances of re-election, since all the democratic
> challengers are beating on these issues day in and day out in the press.
>
> Thankfully, that little ***** won't be re-elected for a second term.
>
> -----------------------
>
> Hold that thought. He shouldn't be re-elected. He should be impeached.
>
Seems to me that the instant these 'detainees' arrived at Guantonamo they were on US soil and were
therefore entitled to the *full* protection of the US constitution. If not that means that no one is
protected. Tell me I am wrong; Someone?; Please? Ken.
 
user <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

Hmm, I think the best argument in this (somewhat complicated) case is to consider the fact that we
are are flying the American flag over there, and the territory was sealed off, for any ordinary
Cubans (even Cuban exiles are no longer allowed to come to the base).

>> And since the good old Fidel took over power in Cuba the US hasn't paid rent. One might actually
>> argue that the base is occupied land.

For your information: the U.S. IS PAYING 2,000 DOLLARS PER YEAR ! Ever heard of SCUBA-diving and the
Callypso-expeditions? (I have seen this documentary myself!)

In 1985 President Fidel Castro told Captain Cousteau (the French film-maker, who is also the
inventor of Scuba-technology) that Cuba does not recognize the US claim to Guantanamo and showed him
the uncashed rent payments. Captain Cousteau crossed the mined no-man's-land to Guantanamo Base, the
first non-Cuban to make the crossing since 1961, to discuss Castro's remarks with the base
commander, who explained the base's use to train the fleet. In contrast to the historic island, the
base looks like many American towns, complete with school bus, baseball field and McDonald's.

See also: www.cousteausociety.org/tcs_expeditions_cuba.html http://www.cousteau.org/en/
http://www.cousteau.org/en/heritage/inventions/scuba.php
http://www.cousteau.org/en/heritage/calypso/history.php

"Gitmo" as it is often called, is the oldest U.S. base outside of the continental United States. The
U.S. Navy has maintained a presence at Guantánamo since 1903, when the area was acquired as a
coaling and naval station. The original lease agreement signed between U.S. President Theodore
Roosevelt and Cuban President Estrada Palma gave the United States "the right to exercise complete
jurisdiction and control within and over the area. In turn, the United States recognized the
ultimate sovereignty of Cuba over the leased areas." This original agreement was reaffirmed by a
treaty signed in 1934 by President Franklin Roosevelt.

The first American casualties of the Spanish-Cuban-American war were two marines killed at
Guantánamo on June 11, 1898. A U.S. Marine battalion camped there the day before, marking the first
U.S. presence on the bay.

Just about five years later, on February 23, 1903, U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt signed an
agreement with Cuba leasing the bay for 2,000 gold coins per year. The agreement was forced on the
puppet Cuban government (with an American-citizen for President) through the Platt Amendment, which
gave U.S. authorities the right to interfere in Cuban affairs. On July 2 1906, (just before the 2nd
U.S. military intervention, a new lease is signed in Havana for Guantánamo Bay and Bahía Honda, for
which the U.S. will pay a meager $2,000 per year.

After Cubans annulled the Platt Amendment in 1934, a new lease was negotiated between the Roosevelt
administration and a U.S.-friendly government that included Fulgencio Batista (who would later
become the worst dictator the country has ever known) as one of three signatories. Batista emerged
as the strong man on the island over the next twenty-five years. When the Revolution triumphed in
1959, the U.S. banned its soldiers stationed at the bay from entering Cuban territory. Legally
speaking, Guantánamo should have been returned to Cuba at this time. (As a principle of universal
law, perpetual contracts can be cancelled at any time)

In an interview with Soviet journalists in October 1985, U.S. President Ronald Reagan said that
the purpose of the base was political: to impose the U.S. presence, even if the Cubans didn't want
it. Every year the U.S. sends a check for the lease amount, but the Cuban government has never
cashed them.
 
sure... Like Billy was? get real
"Corse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "None" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]... Listen, the little dicktater is
> worried that all this is going to hurt his chances of re-election, since all the democratic
> challengers are beating
on
> these issues day in and day out in the press.
>
> Thankfully, that little ***** won't be re-elected for a second term.
>
> -----------------------
>
> Hold that thought. He shouldn't be re-elected. He should be impeached.
>
>
> Corse
 
"robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <snipped>
>
> Ah but he will be reelected. There is no strong personality to replace
him.
>
>

Of course he will, if he can just get Georgia to buy those Diebold machines and 'go along with the
rest of the country' (HA!).

If Maryland stays ****** off, but pays 'out the yin-yang' for a paper trail for *their* Diebold
machines anyway, though, King Shrub may be in for a bumpy ride. I don't think this lot is gonna get
away with trying to 'fix' things for this elections. Too many people have too many reservations
about 'touch-screen voting' (thank GOD).

Maybe when it's time for Hillary! to debut as a 'serious contender' for Prez in '08. I'm sure the
Clintons haven't served their, erm, 'higher purpose' yet...

BTW, a 'strong personality' has nothing to do with it. The Dems have SEVERAL 'strong personalities',
but none of them (Kucinich, Clark, Sharpton, and Mosley-Braun) have a prayer. At least, so sayeth
"The Great And Powerful News", especially at ABC
(http://www.kucinich.us/pressreleases/pr_121003.php).

Before it's all over, you mark my words: the 'major television networks' are going to see to it that
none of these 'strong personalities' get much (if any) airtime. And they'll screw the Libertarian
Party again, too, just like they did in 2000.

Civil disobedience? You betcha. I think it's time. If you go to vote, and someone wants you to
'touch the screen' to cast your vote, tell 'em you want a 'paper trail', and you aren't leaving
until you get one. I wanna see the local election authorities try to have someone arrested for
making a stink at the precinct about *that*. It would be verrrrry interesting....

Hell, I've run out of fingers already, counting the number of my lawyer pals who would love to get
their hands on a case like that.

mellstrr--wishing, hoping...
 
Mike Dobony wrote:
> That crybaby needing-his-diaper-changed, spoiled rotton brat Gore would have just let the
> terrorists continue on their merry way preparing to attack again and again and again.

And if a Libertarian were President, all of our troops would be back on U.S. soil, and we would not
be pissing off the arabs and picking fights with foreigners, i.e. "you will accept capitalism
whether you want to or not. Why are you upset? Why are you attacking us?"

If I complain about bee stings, well, maybe I shouldn't have ****** on the bee hive. If I mind my
own business, they leave me alone and everyone is happy.

Except, of course, certain politicians (Republicans and Democrats, for starters) that want the
United States of the World.

--
John Gaughan
http://www.johngaughan.net/
[email protected]