CTL and TSB when improving

Nicolai Foss said:

I got my PT in february around april my FTP was 268 (20 minutes test of 292) with a CTL of 45, now my CTL is 70 and my FTP is 305 (60 min test). When I started using cyclingpeaks my TSB correlated well with how I felt on a given day, but as my CTL increased I find I am often wasted despite having a TSB>0 - does anybody have similar experiences?

Gains get harder the higher you go.

How does training with a CTL of 70 compare to previous seasons? (I know you didn't have a PM before but in terms of how long / hard / consistently you trained before?)

If you haven't trained at that level of cumulative fatigue before, you may find it hard at times. Typically you want to look at raising your CTL ceiling as a season by season thing.

Having said that, a CTL of 70 is not sky high by any means so I would expect most well trained cyclists to be able to manage such a load.

If your PE is regularly out of whack with TSB, then maybe (assuming FTP set correctly) you are ready for an easing back for a while before another build phase.

Alex Simmons said:

Gains get harder the higher you go.

How does training with a CTL of 70 compare to previous seasons? (I know you didn't have a PM before but in terms of how long / hard / consistently you trained before?)

If you haven't trained at that level of cumulative fatigue before, you may find it hard at times. Typically you want to look at raising your CTL ceiling as a season by season thing.

Having said that, a CTL of 70 is not sky high by any means so I would expect most well trained cyclists to be able to manage such a load.

If your PE is regularly out of whack with TSB, then maybe (assuming FTP set correctly) you are ready for an easing back for a while before another build phase.

Hi Alex. As you can see I´ve confirmed my PB from the club TT that we discussed earlier (It seems to be a combo of my best form yet and motivation). I´ve only owned a bike for three years (never done aerobic training before at age 36:rolleyes🙂 and have been gradually buildding from year to year. I´ve propably never before in my life been in such a form - the previous years I´ve usually had my forms interrupted by weeks of the bike, but this year I´ve been consistent on it for the last four months.

Do you think I should let my CTL trail off tpwards fall or continue building aerobic fitness through the fall and winter (My goal is now set at a ftp of 330:cool🙂.

In my n=1 experience, just being "positive" TSB is not an indicator of form for me. If I do a hard ride on Sundaywhile negative TSB, and because I take a day off on Monday I am positive TSB on Tuesday, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to be "on form" that day.

If I instead ride hard on Sunday, and ride two easy days letting TSB gradually come into the positive, I feel a whole heck of a lot more "on form."

Two examples are here in 3 day windows:
TSS, ATL, CTL, TSB

  [font=Courier New]  TSS      ATL        CTL        TSB[/font]
  [font=Courier New]  242.70   128.16     116.32     4.18[/font]
  [font=Courier New]  0.00   109.85     113.55     -11.83[/font]
  [font=Courier New]  152.30   115.91     114.48     3.71[/font]
    
  [font=Courier New]  vs...[/font]
    
  [font=Courier New]  TSS       ATL        CTL        TSB[/font]
  [font=Courier New]  200.10  150.72     130.37     -13.83[/font]
  [font=Courier New]  58.00   137.48     128.64     -20.36[/font]
  [font=Courier New]  53.40   125.47     126.85     -8.83[/font]
  [font=Courier New]  105.40  122.60     126.34     1.39[/font]
  

Second example set some personal bests in a race this last weekend. First example was a miserable workout on the third day, even though I was higher TSB. With this,
I haven't noticed a difference in TSB required to be "on form" based on where I am in building CTL, but TSB is a lot more than just "positive" and "negative" (as much as CTL doesn't just equal FTP improvement).

Nicolai Foss said:

Hi Alex. As you can see I´ve confirmed my PB from the club TT that we discussed earlier (It seems to be a combo of my best form yet and motivation). I´ve only owned a bike for three years (never done aerobic training before at age 36:rolleyes🙂 and have been gradually buildding from year to year. I´ve propably never before in my life been in such a form - the previous years I´ve usually had my forms interrupted by weeks of the bike, but this year I´ve been consistent on it for the last four months.

Do you think I should let my CTL trail off tpwards fall or continue building aerobic fitness through the fall and winter (My goal is now set at a ftp of 330:cool🙂.

It is hard to give specific coaching advice without a detailed understanding of any athlete's history/targets etc.

But based on what you describe, i.e. still relatively new to training, then perhaps you have found a temporary CTL ceiling. Now you have a quantifiable level. It might only need a week, maybe four, hard to say. You may not need to let it fall much, if at all.

It can also depend on other factors in your training, like where you MAP is relative to FTP.

Maybe some coaching is in order😉