Connect2 phone voting

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Richard Fairhurst

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Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:

Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call, apparently).
Closes noon on Monday.

If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number, your
mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.

If you're anti then you'll presumably want to vote for one of the
other projects.

Richard
 
On 7 Dec, 11:27, Richard Fairhurst <[email protected]> wrote:
> Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
>
> Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call, apparently).
> Closes noon on Monday.
>
> If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number, your
> mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.
>
Ah yes, the good old 'vote early, vote often' ;)
 
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
>
> Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call, apparently).
> Closes noon on Monday.
>
> If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number, your
> mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.

You're not a supporter of fair play then, or the old fashioned notion of
one person, one vote.

Would you support similar vote-rigging in, say, a general election?

--
Matt B
 
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:58:27 +0000, Matt B
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>> Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
>>
>> Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call, apparently).
>> Closes noon on Monday.
>>
>> If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number, your
>> mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.
>
>You're not a supporter of fair play then, or the old fashioned notion of
>one person, one vote.

It is only during a referendum, or direct mayoral election, that we
have one person one vote in this country. In a general election one
constituency votes for one MP, and the size of constituencies vary, so
that those people voting in a bigger constituency do not have a
proportionate vote to those in smaller constituencies.

>Would you support similar vote-rigging in, say, a general election?
 
Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:58:27 +0000, Matt B
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>> Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
>>>
>>> Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call, apparently).
>>> Closes noon on Monday.
>>>
>>> If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number, your
>>> mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.
>> You're not a supporter of fair play then, or the old fashioned notion of
>> one person, one vote.
>
> It is only during a referendum, or direct mayoral election, that we
> have one person one vote in this country.

?! You weren't a Labour candidate in the recent Birmingham local
elections were you?

> In a general election one
> constituency votes for one MP,

And exactly how many votes do you think each person gets???

> and the size of constituencies vary,

So?

> so
> that those people voting in a bigger constituency do not have a
> proportionate vote to those in smaller constituencies.

Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative, and
not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that each
person's vote has an equal value.

>> Would you support similar vote-rigging in, say, a general election?

Do /you/ support the rigging of national votes where it is easy to do
and difficult to detect?

--
Matt B
 
Matt B wrote:
> Tom Crispin wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:58:27 +0000, Matt B
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>>> Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
>>>>
>>>> Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call,
>>>> apparently). Closes noon on Monday.
>>>>
>>>> If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number,
>>>> your mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.
>>> You're not a supporter of fair play then, or the old fashioned
>>> notion of one person, one vote.
>>
>> It is only during a referendum, or direct mayoral election, that we
>> have one person one vote in this country.

>> so
>> that those people voting in a bigger constituency do not have a
>> proportionate vote to those in smaller constituencies.
>
> Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative,
> and not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that each
> person's vote has an equal value.


No they don't. I live in a very safe seat area. I can vote or not, but my
vote has no effect on the outcome. The constituency would elect a donkey if
it carried the correct rosette.
A few years ago I lived in a different house in a marginal seat. There my
vote would have an effect on the outcome.

The difference in the amount of canvassing received at election time
illustrates that the political parties have worked this out as well; a few
hundred votes in each of 70 marginal constituencies decides the outcome. The
rest of us don't really have much of a say.


But this belongs on another newsgroup.


- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
 
"Tom Crispin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:58:27 +0000, Matt B
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>> Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
>>>
>>> Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call, apparently).
>>> Closes noon on Monday.
>>>
>>> If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number, your
>>> mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.
>>
>>You're not a supporter of fair play then, or the old fashioned notion of
>>one person, one vote.
>
Reminds me of the time President Ford [ "he cannot walk and chew gum at the
same time"} thought he could upstage an old hand
Nikita Kruschov.
He greeted him in front of the worlds press "how do you like democracy"
Kruschov answered "ah yes in the USA the people have a choice between two
people".
Fair play in politics is for losers.
Tam
 
Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]> wrote:

> Matt B wrote:

> > Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative,
> > and not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that each
> > person's vote has an equal value.

> No they don't. I live in a very safe seat area. I can vote or not, but my
> vote has no effect on the outcome.

That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
"Ekul Namsob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1i8rpf9.ymnnku14qopN%[email protected]...
> Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Matt B wrote:
>
>> > Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative,
>> > and not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that each
>> > person's vote has an equal value.
>
>> No they don't. I live in a very safe seat area. I can vote or not, but
>> my
>> vote has no effect on the outcome.
>
> That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Unfortunately it isn't - it's real life.

I'm in a safe seat. Every time I go out and vote I do so in the knowledge
that it won't make any difference.

When there are a sufficient number of people who support a party without
question, then this happens.

cheers,
clive
 
Paul Boyd wrote:
> No thanks.
>
> "Weston-super-Mare, Axe and Yeo sluice Gate crossings
> DESELECTED SCHEME "

And that's why this method of distributing lottery money isn't a very
bright idea.

Mark
 
>>> > Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative,
>>> > and not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that each
>>> > person's vote has an equal value.
>>
>>> No they don't. I live in a very safe seat area. I can vote or not, but
>>> my
>>> vote has no effect on the outcome.
>>
>> That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
> Unfortunately it isn't - it's real life.
>
> I'm in a safe seat. Every time I go out and vote I do so in the knowledge
> that it won't make any difference.
>
> When there are a sufficient number of people who support a party without
> question, then this happens.
>
You are right on the money there-on the other hand I never thought I would
live to see the Labour vote slip away to the SNP and
similarly never expected to see the Tory party become a little minority in
Scotland.
Every vote counts-sooner or later- but- if you do not vote you will get no
representation.
Tam
 
"tam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>> > Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative,
>>>> > and not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that
>>>> > each
>>>> > person's vote has an equal value.
>>>
>>>> No they don't. I live in a very safe seat area. I can vote or not,
>>>> but my
>>>> vote has no effect on the outcome.
>>>
>>> That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>>
>> Unfortunately it isn't - it's real life.
>>
>> I'm in a safe seat. Every time I go out and vote I do so in the knowledge
>> that it won't make any difference.
>>
>> When there are a sufficient number of people who support a party without
>> question, then this happens.
>>
> You are right on the money there-on the other hand I never thought I would
> live to see the Labour vote slip away to the SNP and
> similarly never expected to see the Tory party become a little minority in
> Scotland.

> Every vote counts-sooner or later- but- if you do not vote you will get no
> representation.

That's not actually true. It may change for me in the future, but at the
moment my vote plays no part in the proceedings. I've got as much
representation if I vote or if I don't.

The seat I'm talking about was strong tory in the worst of times for them,
so the chances of it going to anyone else are pretty much zero. And we'd
know if there was some competition for the seat beforehand - your examples
weren't sudden surprises.

cheers,
clive
 
On Dec 7, 11:58 am, Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:
> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> > Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
>
> > Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call, apparently).
> > Closes noon on Monday.
>
> > If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number, your
> > mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.
>
> You're not a supporter of fair play then, or the old fashioned notion of
> one person, one vote.

According to the "People's 50 Million Voting Terms and Conditions" it
isn't one person, one vote in this case. It's one vote per UK IP
address or per UK phone number. Whatever you think of the fairness or
otherwise of that, those appear to be the rules.

--
Dave...
 
Clive George <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Ekul Namsob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1i8rpf9.ymnnku14qopN%[email protected]...
> > Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Matt B wrote:
> >
> >> > Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative,
> >> > and not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that each
> >> > person's vote has an equal value.
> >
> >> No they don't. I live in a very safe seat area. I can vote or not,
> >> but my vote has no effect on the outcome.

> > That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
> Unfortunately it isn't - it's real life.
>
> I'm in a safe seat. Every time I go out and vote I do so in the knowledge
> that it won't make any difference.
>
> When there are a sufficient number of people who support a party without
> question, then this happens.

I'm sorry, I must disagree. Unless it is genuinely the case that the
majority of potential voters in an area support the same party, by
refusing to register your disagreement you send the signal to other
potential voters that voting will not make a difference.


Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
Clive George <[email protected]> wrote:

> That's not actually true. It may change for me in the future, but at the
> moment my vote plays no part in the proceedings. I've got as much
> representation if I vote or if I don't.
>
> The seat I'm talking about was strong tory in the worst of times for them,
> so the chances of it going to anyone else are pretty much zero. And we'd
> know if there was some competition for the seat beforehand - your examples
> weren't sudden surprises.

Hmm... If I assume correctly, at the last election your MP was elected
with 49.7% of the vote.

69 500 people were eligible to vote. 36% of those voted for him. If
sufficient of those who had not bothered to vote had chosen to vote for
the second placed candidate then the Tories would have been ousted.

On the other hand, if enough people in your constituency decide there is
no point voting, your MP may one day be elected with 100% of the vote.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
On Dec 8, 1:59 am, "tam" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> > Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative,
> >>> > and not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that each
> >>> > person's vote has an equal value.
>
> >>> No they don't. I live in a very safe seat area. I can vote or not, but
> >>> my
> >>> vote has no effect on the outcome.
>
> >> That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
> > Unfortunately it isn't - it's real life.
>
> > I'm in a safe seat. Every time I go out and vote I do so in the knowledge
> > that it won't make any difference.
>
> > When there are a sufficient number of people who support a party without
> > question, then this happens.
>
> You are right on the money there-on the other hand I never thought I would
> live to see the Labour vote slip away to the SNP and
> similarly never expected to see the Tory party become a little minority in
> Scotland.
> Every vote counts-sooner or later- but- if you do not vote you will get no
> representation.

That 'little minority' still has more of the vote than the lib dems.
It is remarkable how well the SNP have done. All things change in
time.

...d
 
"Richard Fairhurst" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:419dae26-a591-4556-bd1d-9123d87c938c@d61g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
>
> Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call, apparently).
> Closes noon on Monday.
>
> If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number, your
> mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.
>
> If you're anti then you'll presumably want to vote for one of the
> other projects.
>
> Richard
The fact that I voted for the Sherwood project does not mean that I am anti
the Sustrans project. it means I believe that the Sherwood project has more
relevance to me.

I also happen to believe the once this capital income is spent then a project
like the "Sherwood", it will continue to receive maintenance funds.

My empirical experience with Sustrans is that one a "route" is established
then it is abandoned to the whims of various local authorities who fail to
maintain the route.

I am actually very opposed to this sort of "auction" on TV, and its inbuilt
super hype of any of the projects supported.

I recently cycled from home near Doncaster to friends in Nottingham for a very
pleasant w/e with schoolboy chums - all now 70 + or -) . I had the good
fortune for a sunny day for my return trip and since I had ignored the
Dukeries on the way down I took time, on my return journey to travel slowly
and enjoy the area.

The "Forest" is an extensive wood now but it still does have some ancient oaks
and it would take so little extra money to reinvigorate the area.
A propos my comment of "lack of maintenance funds" -- trees like Oaks are
resilient and need little actual human intervention. Funds spent on improving
access to the site means that that access is controlled to an extent where the
tourist intervention is mainly localised to "Errol Flynn -- Robin Hood sites".

So maybe as a Cyclist you might look elsewhere for you voting.

A final note

In the early stage of the lottery I bought a single ticket with the same
numbers for several weeks. I gave it up within 2 months and have not bought
one since!

So I have little right to vote anyway!

Ah Well!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
 
On 08/12/2007 03:58, Clive George wrote:
"tam" wrote:
>>Every vote counts-sooner or later- but- if you do not vote you will get no
>>representation.

and Clive George responded:
> That's not actually true. It may change for me in the future,

That would be the "later" bit that Tam mentioned, then :p

> but at the
> moment my vote plays no part in the proceedings. I've got as much
> representation if I vote or if I don't.

For the first GE I voted in, I was registered in two constituencies
(quite common with students). My parents had registered me in the
Wealden constituency, my university had registered me in Bath.

I chose to vote in the marginal, rather than in one of the safest seats
in the country.

Since then I've always lived in a constituency where my MP has had a
safe seat. That's never stopped me voting, though, although on one
occasion I spoiled my ballot paper when I wanted to register a protest
vote and the choice of candidates for a protest vote was (IIRC) UKIP,
the Referendum Party or the Natural Law Party.

--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"The plural of anecdote is not data" - Frank Kotsonis
 
Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]> wrote:

> Matt B wrote:
> > Tom Crispin wrote:
> >> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:58:27 +0000, Matt B
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> >>>> Without wanting to reopen the debate about good thing/bad thing:
> >>>>
> >>>> Phone voting is now open at 0870 24 24 602 (10p a call,
> >>>> apparently). Closes noon on Monday.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you're pro-Connect2 you'll want to vote from your home number,
> >>>> your mobile, your work number, your aunt's mobile etc. etc.
> >>> You're not a supporter of fair play then, or the old fashioned
> >>> notion of one person, one vote.
> >>
> >> It is only during a referendum, or direct mayoral election, that we
> >> have one person one vote in this country.
>
> >> so
> >> that those people voting in a bigger constituency do not have a
> >> proportionate vote to those in smaller constituencies.
> >
> > Given that (in theory) we vote for our constituency representative,
> > and not specifically for the Government, I think you'll find that each
> > person's vote has an equal value.
>
>
> No they don't. I live in a very safe seat area. I can vote or not, but my
> vote has no effect on the outcome. The constituency would elect a donkey if
> it carried the correct rosette.
> A few years ago I lived in a different house in a marginal seat. There my
> vote would have an effect on the outcome.
>
things can change, labour lost one of their safest seats. purely their
own fault. and yes did invole a donkey comment though that wasn't the
real reason.

> The difference in the amount of canvassing received at election time
> illustrates that the political parties have worked this out as well; a few
> hundred votes in each of 70 marginal constituencies decides the outcome. The
> rest of us don't really have much of a say.
>
>
> But this belongs on another newsgroup.
>
>
> - Nigel

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
 
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