Commuter lights

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heh! And that was unexpected in what way, precisely? That's lemon
entry physics, that is.

lemon entry - that's great, I'll have to remember that one!

Just zis Guy said:

Quoted message said:

Even in winter it's possible to get 30mph on even a gentle downhill if
putting in some effort and I find dynamo lights start to be insufficient
when riding unlit roads, with some oncoming traffic (so your eyes never
fully adapt) at 20mph or more.

SON, two lights in series. No problem.

See, this is the kind of thing about dynamo lighting which makes me feel
it's the province of the eager tweaker who has the skills and
inclination to get it all perfect rather than the fit-and-forget kind of
person. Having to a suitable place on the bike for an extra light, muck
around with wiring isn't what I want to be doing, really.

I think I'm just going to have to find one to try out.

Daniele

D.M. Procida said:

See, this is the kind of thing about dynamo lighting which makes me feel
it's the province of the eager tweaker who has the skills and
inclination to get it all perfect rather than the fit-and-forget kind of
person.

I am a fit and forget kind of person. For someone who works in physics
my electrical practicality is embarrassingly poor and I'm rather bad at
neat fettles with my hands.
And I run a couple of SON dynohubs because there's nothing to do except
maybe adjust the way the light points every then and now.

It's worth taking Arthur's point that over 20 mph on unlit roads you'll
want more than a single lamp in the default configuration, but if that's
not really an issue then it's a moot point. It is moot for me.

Quoted message said:

Having to a suitable place on the bike for an extra light, muck
around with wiring isn't what I want to be doing, really.

Light fittings are generally standard mounts from the brakes so they
don't clutter up the handlebars. Wiring is what buying it from a shop
does you. My first SON setup was factory fitted and Darth Ben did the
second, thrown in free thanks to buying the kit from him. Santa gave
Roos a hub and lamp and wheel build last Christmas, and since he'd had
it delivered through Spokes (LBS) they were happy to do the fitting and
wiring for nothing extra (and a nice job they did too).

Quoted message said:

I think I'm just going to have to find one to try out.

You'll find the experience really, really uneventful! The hub is a bit
bigger than usual, and if the switch is switched on the light comes on
if you move is the only really tangible difference from any other
riding. The shop fits it and you can forget it. And you don't have to
worry about forgetting to charge your batteries, or putting the lights
in your bag, or taking them off the bike, and so on.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am a fit and forget kind of person. For someone who works in physics my
electrical practicality is embarrassingly poor and I'm rather bad at neat
fettles with my hands.
And I run a couple of SON dynohubs because there's nothing to do except
maybe adjust the way the light points every then and now.

It's worth taking Arthur's point that over 20 mph on unlit roads you'll
want more than a single lamp in the default configuration, but if that's
not really an issue then it's a moot point. It is moot for me.

ok ok - I'm getting interested now... I'll be cycling to work over the
winter period (12 miles each way, mainly rural)
and I'm just thinking of building a (hack-like) bike up. It seems using a
SON might be a GOOD THING.

I'm a little unclear on a few things tho...

1. I need a hub - it seems SONs are good and respected - ok, I got that one.
2. I need a front lamp - the E6 seems to be good?
3. I might need another one re Arthur's comment - ok, how do I wire this up?
4. I might also go slow up hills - do I then need an auto-switch back to
just one lamp?
5. Peter mentioned brake fittings for lamps? How do these work?
6. I'll need a rear light - run off the dyno? or battery led one? (that's
what I use now)
7. Do I need to think about lights when I stop at junctions etc on the urban
bit of my commute? -
do any lamps come as standard with storage for a minute or so?
8. Punctures etc - I guess I just carry a head torch for any breakdowns?

Apologies for all the questions! Tho I've got a lot more coming in a
separate thread re the hack bike...

Cheers,
Graham

D.M. Procida <[email hidden]> wrote:

: See, this is the kind of thing about dynamo lighting which makes me feel
: it's the province of the eager tweaker who has the skills and
: inclination to get it all perfect rather than the fit-and-forget kind of
: person.

I couldn't have put it better myself. I don't want to do my own wiring. I
just want it to work.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Graham Dean <[email hidden]> wrote:

: ok ok - I'm getting interested now... I'll be cycling to work over the
: winter period (12 miles each way, mainly rural)
: and I'm just thinking of building a (hack-like) bike up. It seems using a
: SON might be a GOOD THING.

For that sort of distance, if you go the dynamo route the SON is probably worth
the extra over the Shimano ones.

I've got an older model Shimano hub dynamo on my town bike/hack and it's been
excellent, but has higher drag than the SON (not that I notice on a town bike).

The new Shimano dynamos look very good indeed, but I've not seen a comparision
of them against the SON for drag etc.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:53:04 +0100 someone who may be
[email hidden] (D.M. Procida) wrote
this:-

Quoted message said:

I guess around £100 would really have to be a sensible limit
on a bike priced at £430.

Expensive gadgets can be transferred from one bike to another, so
that may not quite be the case.

This assumes you have standardised on a particular wheel size, to
avoid the cost of another rim etc.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Graham Dean said:

I'm a little unclear on a few things tho...

1. I need a hub - it seems SONs are good and respected - ok, I got that one.

The new Shimano ones are almost as good for substantially less. More
bangs for your buck, but you still get a few extra bangs with the SON.
Depends how much spare cash you have for the operation.

Quoted message said:

2. I need a front lamp - the E6 seems to be good?

Apparently. We have B&M oval senso plusses on our bikes, and they seem
to work well too. They have a sensor which automagically turns on the
light as it gets dark. Sounds like a gimmick but it actually works
really well, and one moving part fewer. Don't know how these will do
the series thing, will leave that to someone who's better informed than me.

Quoted message said:

5. Peter mentioned brake fittings for lamps? How do these work?

The standard brake mounting has a bolt through the head tube to hold
things in place over the wheel. The lamp bracket mounts onto that and
then goes either over or under the brake mech (depending what sort of
brake it is). See http://kinetics.org.uk/html/extras.shtml

Quoted message said:

6. I'll need a rear light - run off the dyno? or battery led one? (that's
what I use now)

Either. If you run just a front off the dynamo make sure you put a 3W
bulb rather than the default 2.4W in, or it'll go Foom sooner or later.
Less wiring to be done (wiring on the Brom is trickier as yopu have to
consider the fold, so I run a rear LED on that, but dunamo power on the
tourer and freighter) and slightly more light if you don't bother with
the back, slight reduction in fit and forget anti-faff.

Quoted message said:

7. Do I need to think about lights when I stop at junctions etc on the urban
bit of my commute? -

Not if you get standlights. But even without them you shoukld be
reasonably safe if you approach the issue with a bit of thought,
especially combined with a bumper stock of reflectives.

Quoted message said:

do any lamps come as standard with storage for a minute or so?

Yes. In the B&M range the "Plus" designation has a standlight.

Quoted message said:

8. Punctures etc - I guess I just carry a head torch for any breakdowns?

Yup.

Quoted message said:

Apologies for all the questions!

Nae bother...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Graham Dean said:

6. I'll need a rear light - run off the dyno? or battery led one? (that's
what I use now)

LED for sure. Rear lights are lights to be seen, rather than lights to
see with, so require less juice. I use a nice big Cateye one, can't
rmember the model, but it's sort of rectangular and takes 2 x AA
cells. Lasts for ages.

This setup means you can then put a 3W lamp in the front and don't
have to worry about standlights for the rear. Having said that, one of
my bikes does run a standlight at the rear, fitted as standard when I
bought it.

Quoted message said:

7. Do I need to think about lights when I stop at junctions etc on the urban
bit of my commute? -
do any lamps come as standard with storage for a minute or so?

Yes. Well B&M do a standlight version anyway. I suspect there are
others.

Quoted message said:

8. Punctures etc - I guess I just carry a head torch for any breakdowns?

Good call.

Tim

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> 6. I'll need a rear light - run off the dyno? or battery led one? (that's
:> what I use now)

LED all the way for me. Use a 3W blub in the front for a smidge more light, but
it's the reduction in wiring (and consequent increase in reliability) that wins
it for me.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

in message <[email hidden]>, Graham

Dean (') said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am a fit and forget kind of person. For someone who works in
physics my electrical practicality is embarrassingly poor and I'm
rather bad at neat fettles with my hands.
And I run a couple of SON dynohubs because there's nothing to do
except maybe adjust the way the light points every then and now.

It's worth taking Arthur's point that over 20 mph on unlit roads
you'll want more than a single lamp in the default configuration, but
if that's
not really an issue then it's a moot point. It is moot for me.

ok ok - I'm getting interested now... I'll be cycling to work over the
winter period (12 miles each way, mainly rural)
and I'm just thinking of building a (hack-like) bike up. It seems using
a SON might be a GOOD THING.

I'm a little unclear on a few things tho...

1. I need a hub - it seems SONs are good and respected - ok, I got that
one.
2. I need a front lamp - the E6 seems to be good?
3. I might need another one re Arthur's comment - ok, how do I wire
this up?

Or you could buy solidlights 1203d
<URL:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php> - see posts by
Chris solidlights passim - should be much brighter and more reliable
than an incandescent light and you won't need two. But very expensive
and I find the chunkiness/boxiness unappealing - expensive bike kit
needs to look good, IMHO.

This is not a recommendation - I haven't seen the thing let alone used it
- but LED based lighting has to be the future. I have to confess I'm
intrigued and might need to buy myself a present soon.

Quoted message said:

4. I might also go slow up hills - do I then need an
auto-switch back to just one lamp?

Auto on the 1203d, according to the spec.

Quoted message said:

5. Peter mentioned brake fittings for lamps? How do these work?
6. I'll need a rear light - run off the dyno? or battery led one?
(that's what I use now)
7. Do I need to think about lights when I stop at junctions etc on the
urban bit of my commute? -
do any lamps come as standard with storage for a minute or so?

Standard on the 1203d (mind you, also standard on a the German-made
incandescents).

Quoted message said:

8. Punctures etc - I guess I just carry a head torch for any
breakdowns?

The standlights I've seen on incandescents are not very bright and quite
short duration, but solidlights cheerfully suggest theirs is adequate
for fixing a puncture. They claim 5 minutes 'typical' burn. Like I say,
I'm intrigued.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Let's have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
;; in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle.
;; Rep. Earl Blumenauer (Dem, OR)

in message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch

(') said:

Less wiring to be done (wiring on the Brom is trickier as yopu have
to
consider the fold, so I run a rear LED on that, but dunamo power on the
tourer and freighter)

How does a dynamo work with the monoblade? Do you use a bottle on the
freighter?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

Simon Brooke said:

How does a dynamo work with the monoblade? Do you use a bottle on the
freighter?

Yup, a B&M S6. Ben bodged a mount for the bottle and front lamp bracket
on the fork blade with some very high tech jubilee clips and some old
bits of rack mounting strips with a 90 degree twist in them.

Works fine, but every time I use it I'm reminded how much better the
SONs are.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote:

[For use with a hub dynamo]:

Quoted message said:

Or you could buy solidlights 1203d
<URL:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php> - see posts by
Chris solidlights passim - should be much brighter and more reliable
than an incandescent light and you won't need two. But very expensive
and I find the chunkiness/boxiness unappealing - expensive bike kit
needs to look good, IMHO.

This is not a recommendation - I haven't seen the thing let alone used it
- but LED based lighting has to be the future. I have to confess I'm
intrigued and might need to buy myself a present soon.

So there's no reason why a dynamo can't be used with LEDs? Perhaps that
would go some way to addressing the brighness issue mentioned earlier,
since LEDs need less power.

Daniele
--
Apple Juice
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road
Cardiff CF5 1QE

D.M. Procida said:

So there's no reason why a dynamo can't be used with LEDs?

Dynamo rear lights have been LED as standard for some time now. B&M
have recently launched their first dynamo specific LED front lamp.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> 6. I'll need a rear light - run off the dyno? or battery led one?
(that's
:> what I use now)

LED all the way for me. Use a 3W blub in the front for a smidge more
light, but
it's the reduction in wiring (and consequent increase in reliability) that
wins
it for me.

LOL I went the opposite way for the same logic (reduction in complexity),
that and because my lights are a linked DIWA set. They come on when
braking. I did have a bit of a fiddle routing the rear light wires through
the inside of my frame, but once that was done it's great, they're out of
the way and I don't have to do anything about lights, just cycle. They even
come on when it gets dark. I'd hate to have the additional hassle of a rear
light, batteries, and all that.

I still haven't routed the front light <-> dynamo wire as neatly, but that's
on the cards now I've thought of a way of doing it. It's nice having such a
massive fat frame tube to hide everything away in.

Quoted message said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Graham Dean wrote:
Apologies for all the questions!

Nae bother...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Pete et al - thanks for all the answers, it's given me lots of info and
pointers to
other info.

Many thanks again.

Cheers,
Graham

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LED for sure. Rear lights are lights to be seen, rather than lights to

see with, so require less juice.

LEDs require less juice, but that's not the reason.

The vast majority of energy output by a tungsten (incandescent) bulb is
heat. About 95% in fact. Added to that you then have to filter out
everything except red, when we used to use tungsten bulbs for rear
lights they required just as much juice and still weren't as bright as
the front.

LEDs are much, much more efficient - the light they produce is in a
very narrow wavelength band, so very little energy is wasted.

LSMike said:

I still haven't routed the front light <-> dynamo wire as neatly, but that's
on the cards now I've thought of a way of doing it. It's nice having such a
massive fat frame tube to hide everything away in.

I have the same fat frame tube as you, and have been considering a
front SON. How do you plan to route the wire from hub to front lamp
inside the tube?

It's easy to get unobtrusively into the fork steerer and upwards of
course, but that won't allow access into the main frame tube.

"Bob"
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"Call me Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I have the same fat frame tube as you, and have been considering a
front SON. How do you plan to route the wire from hub to front lamp
inside the tube?

It's easy to get unobtrusively into the fork steerer and upwards of
course, but that won't allow access into the main frame tube.

Yup, up through and inside the fork, then down again with the rear brake and
shifter cables into the main tube, then forwards and out through the
drainage hole just aft of the bottom bracket.