changing ratios

injuryprone said:

Front chainrings 53 / 39. Rear cogs 11 through 25

What do I need to replace to move from a double to a
triple?

Depends on what equipment you've got exactly. I would add a
long or medium cage rear mech to MSeries's should-but-don't-have-
to list. New shifters won't be required if have Campags, not
necessarily bottom bracket either if cranks are
Centaur/Veloce/Mirage type.

Quoted message said:

Should I stick with my double (I am an "athletic" novice)
and just keep training greater lactate tolerance until I
can climb fast on a 39x25?

There is another option: compact double--these can take
smaller chainrings.

The least that would be worth trying is larger rear
sprockets, eg. 12-27 or 13-29. A 13 or even 14-tooth top
sprocket can be acceptable and will keep the gears close
together. 53x11 top gear is barking mad, IMO, unless
slipstreaming fast vans... but then doing that is
barking mad, too.

~PB

Richard Goodman [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

I can relate to that. I was just in Switzerland for a week
for a conference - only got to do half a day's cycling on
a hired mtb and that too on the road - but I still had to
get down onto the small ring going up a relatively short
and not particularly steep mountain road, compared to some
of the passes I might hope to do with a loaded bike this
summer. It made me seriously wonder whether even the 30x32
I had planned to be using is going to be low enough, or
whether I should give up now!

At 30x32 the biggest problem that I can see is that you
can't spin fast enough to maintain the balance of the bike.
I would suggest practicing high-cadence riding for a while.
And bear in mind, that the hire bike may not have been
especially high quality. It sounds to me like you've just
set yourself a challenge.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

At 30x32 the biggest problem that I can see is that
you can't spin fast enough to maintain the balance of
the bike.

Actually your ability to balance a bike a low speed is
the ultimate limit to how slowly you can climb and
therefore how steep you can climb. My biggest advance in
steep hill climbing has been learning to balance at
slower and slower speeds.

Tony

Pete Biggs said:

injuryprone said:

Front chainrings 53 / 39. Rear cogs 11 through 25 What do
I need to replace to move from a double to a triple?

There is another option: compact double--these can take
smaller chainrings.

The least that would be worth trying is larger rear
sprockets, eg. 12-27 or 13-29. A 13 or even 14-tooth top
sprocket can be acceptable and will keep the gears close
together. 53x11 top gear is barking mad, IMO, unless
slipstreaming fast vans... but then doing that is barking
mad, too.

I can't afford to go triple that's for sure! It's a sora
groupset on a trek 1000 - which I know is bottom-of-the-pond
kit, but I'm just starting out, find it pretty flash by my
own (apparently low) standards and, most importantly, it was
cheap (2nd hand)!

The 53x11 used to get lots of time from me, but I'm finding
my cadence has gone up quite a lot over the months and now
it only gets used when I'm already flying downhill -OR-
sprinting really, really hard.

I'm gonna stick with it and work on my training -- strength
and endurance -- before splashing out.

Thanks for the advice PB and MSeries, I've tucked it away
for consideration when I buy my next bike.

Tony Raven [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Jon Senior said:

At 30x32 the biggest problem that I can see is that
you can't spin fast enough to maintain the balance of
the bike.

Actually your ability to balance a bike a low speed is
the ultimate limit to how slowly you can climb and
therefore how steep you can climb. My biggest advance in
steep hill climbing has been learning to balance at
slower and slower speeds.

That's what I meant... I think. I can balance at near 0
speed (Working on the track stand!) but I find that I travel
further at low speeds because the bike keeps weaving. That
said, an increase in the amount of cycling I do has given me
what where once known as "Yorkshire Thighs" which has made
the hill climbing significantly easier.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

That said, an increase in the amount of cycling I do has
given me what where once known as "Yorkshire Thighs" which
has made the hill climbing significantly easier.

"Yorkshire born an' Yorkshire bred - strong in t' leg an'
thick in t' head" ;-)

<ducks>

Tony

Jon Senior said:

Tony Raven [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Actually your ability to balance a bike a low speed is
the ultimate limit to how slowly you can climb and
therefore how steep you can
climb. My biggest advance in steep hill climbing has been
learning to balance at slower and slower speeds.

That's what I meant... I think. I can balance at near 0
speed (Working on the track stand!)

It is different when pedalling at the same time, especially
up steep hills. Balancing while climbing in a low granny
gear seems more difficult to me than freewheeling on the
flat at 0.5 mph.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

53x11 top gear is barking mad, IMO, unless slipstreaming
fast vans... but then doing that is barking mad, too.

Comfy on a tandem, on the right piece of road. I was
thinking of trying to up the 53 to something a bit larger.
We are usually about 40+ mph (downhill and head down) before
spinning out.

--
replace deadspam with btinternet to reply Tom Anderson
Leighton Buzzard England

Tony:

Quoted message said:

My biggest advance in steep hill climbing has been learning to balance at slower and slower speeds.

...until eventually you get to the point that you are trackstanding and bunny-hopping up the hill...

d.

Mark South said:

OTOH, if 30x32 isn't low enough then nothing is going
to help.

Pish tosh! 24-34 will get one up most things, particularly
when combined with a 406 drive wheel.

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

davek said:

Tony:

Quoted message said:

My biggest advance in steep hill climbing has been
learning to balance at slower and slower speeds.

...until eventually you get to the point that you are
trackstanding and bunny-hopping up the hill...

Worse, I've even gone to negative speeds. Need to think
carefully about the brakes when that happens because the
front now does nothing and the rear brings the front wheel
up and throws you off backwards!

Tony.

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Goodman [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

I can relate to that. I was just in Switzerland for a
week for a conference - only got to do half a day's
cycling on a hired mtb and that

too

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the road - but I still had to get down onto the small
ring going up a relatively short and not particularly
steep mountain road, compared to

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the passes I might hope to do with a loaded bike this
summer. It

made

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

me seriously wonder whether even the 30x32 I had planned
to be using is going to be low enough, or whether I
should give up now!

At 30x32 the biggest problem that I can see is that you
can't spin fast enough to maintain the balance of the
bike. I would suggest practicing high-cadence riding for a
while. And bear in mind, that the hire bike may not have
been especially high quality. It sounds to me like you've
just set yourself a challenge.

Well, I've never been disappointed by putting lower gears
on the tandem, and we can now climb at less than 3mph,
laden or not!

cheers, clive

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

53x11 top gear is barking mad, IMO, unless
slipstreaming fast vans... but then doing that is
barking mad, too.

Comfy on a tandem, on the right piece of road. I was
thinking of trying to up the 53 to something a bit larger.
We are usually about 40+ mph

(downhill

Quoted message said:

and head down) before spinning out.

On the right hills I've seen over 50 on the tandem before
spinning out - 50x11, 26" wheels... (I do remember pedalling
at 38 in the 38x11 gear - ok, that was a bit silly!)

cheers, clive

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

OTOH, if 30x32 isn't low enough then nothing is going
to help.

Pish tosh! 24-34 will get one up most things,

Provided you can manage to a) spin fast enough to maintain
any kind of forward momentum and b) keep the front wheel on
the ground.....

Rich

On 10/5/04 11:36 am, in article [email hidden], "Dave

Larrington said:

Mark South said:

OTOH, if 30x32 isn't low enough then nothing is going
to help.

Pish tosh! 24-34 will get one up most things, particularly
when combined with a 406 drive wheel.

Or in my case, if you lean forwards over the front wheel to
keep it on the ground..

Towing two children and shopping in a trailer up steep hills
is all about balance. You get overtaken by joggers.

24/34 should get me up most things. On the road bike I have
a 52/39 with
25/26 seven speed (shimano Uniglide). That just about does
me as long as I have no load.

..d

Richard Goodman said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2g9497Fv2dU3@uni-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

OTOH, if 30x32 isn't low enough then nothing is going
to help.

Pish tosh! 24-34 will get one up most things,

Provided you can manage to a) spin fast enough to maintain
any kind of forward momentum and b) keep the front wheel
on the ground.....

That particular combination is on a trike, wherein the
critical factor is not pulling a wheelie but having a
suitable coefficient of friction betwixt rear tyre and terra
firma. As I discovered to my discomfiture two-thirds of the
way up the Koppenberg.

I have 24-34 to a 559 rear wheel (17" gear) on the
Speedmachine, on which I can remain upright and travelling
forwards on an 18% hill at some 4 km/h. I think the lowest
I've ever run on an upright was about 22".

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Tony Raven:

Quoted message said:

Worse, I've even gone to negative speeds. Need to think carefully about the brakes when that happens because the

front now does nothing and the rear brings the front wheel up and throws you off backwards!

Nearly had that happen a couple of times on Yorks Hill yesterday (1:4 gradient in the steepest parts) - my front wheel lifted a few times, forcing swift corrective action. To make matters worse, parts of the road were covered in mud so I spun the back wheel several times too.

d.

In message <[email hidden]>

MSeries said:

Mark South said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South wrote:
>
> OTOH, if 30x32 isn't low enough then nothing is going
> to help.

There's always my 24" gear (AKA 2 feet) which has
never let me down. They are push bikes after all.

30x32 is slighly over 24", so yes, the 2-foot gear is
the next one down from that :-)

24.8"

20x32 on 27" = 16.9"

good for dragging a *load* of shopping up a 1 in 6 ...

Gwyn

Quoted message said:

--
Gwyn

Dave Larrington [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

As I discovered to my discomfiture two-thirds of the way
up the Koppenberg.

The imagine of a trike, most of the way up a hill and wheel
spinning is quite amusing. I don't suppose you were riding
with someone who could provide photos?

Jon

"VisionSet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:pF9nc.373$xL2.266@newsfe1-win...

Quoted message said:

mmmm 12/25 or 12/27 both give me much lower than I've had
before I'm tempted to go 12/25 as I know I'll miss the
close ratio, but will it

be

Quoted message said:

low enough?

I've already mentioned this a few times on this NG:

By using an mtb rear mech, £20ish, which will work fine with
roadie shifters you can use up to 34 on the back and keep
your 39/53 on the front, I use an 11-32 like this very
occasionally. You will need a longer chain as well. The
downside is larger gaps between ratios but IMO this is less
noticable in hilly country, where you are either climbing
what feels like a wall or descending like Stan himself, than
what it would be in rolling countryside.

FWIW I can climb anything in Leicestershire and Rutland with
a 39 X 25 including, with a little difficulty, one very
steep, fortunately short, Special Secret Lung Testing Hill
but on Sunday as I was re-inserting said lungs into chest
cavity after having decided to sit back down for the last
few metres some b*stard flew by me out of the saddle. I bet
he ett (sic) his Weetabix ;-)

--
Regards, Pete