Cellphone opponents, take note!

Dan Abel said:

Cell phones do not emit signals just because they are turned on.

Silly you!

http://tinyurl.com/y487y3

also....

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/index.php?p=804

....but wait, there's more.....

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6140191.html

.......not to mention....

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-15-2006-89039.asp

Maybe a cell doesn't technically emit a signal when turned on, but does it
need to?

nb

In article <dabel-A8170D.13482601062007@cor8-
ppp5025.per.dsl.connect.net.au>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

AFAIK, cell phones only emit signals under three conditions:

1. When you turn them on
2. When you move from one cell to another (generally involves driving,
unless your medical facility is several miles long)
3. When you are talking

Cell phones do not emit signals just because they are turned on.

I don't believe this is true. Cell phones communicate regularly with the
local cell to inform the network that they are on and available.

Have you noticed that when you call someone whose cell phone is turned
off you are immediately transferred to voice mail, without waiting for a
certain number of rings?

--
Peter Aitken

In article <[email hidden]>,

notbob said:

Dan Abel said:

Cell phones do not emit signals just because they are turned on.

Silly you!

http://tinyurl.com/y487y3

Pretty wishy-washy article. And if the FBI plants a bug in my phone,
it's on whether the phone is on or not.

Quoted message said:

also....

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/index.php?p=804

Seems to be some question about the legality of this one, used for
tracking errant children and unfaithful spouses.

Quoted message said:

...but wait, there's more.....

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6140191.html

Being that I'm not a member of a New York organized crime family or
under surveillance by the DOJ, I'm not going to worry about this one.

Quoted message said:

......not to mention....

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-15-2006-89039.asp

This one only intercepts signals sent by other cell phones. It doesn't
send out signals of its own.

Quoted message said:

Maybe a cell doesn't technically emit a signal when turned on, but does it
need to?

nb

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Smith said:

Miche said:

On the contrary. If I'm in a doctor's waiting room with my daughter, I
may need it to tell my husband where we are.

Of course, because one of your worlds will collapse if you are not in
constant contact.

If we ended up going to hospital, it would be nice for him to know.

I have been in a couple of situations where having a cellphone has made
life much, much easier, both times including travel plans that fell
through due to weather and involved me being away from home overnight
unexpectedly.

Quoted message said:

I can't tell you the number of inane conversations I have been subjected to
one side of by cell phones users just have to gab to stay in touch with
their friends. I have never been interested in having vacuous conversations
with my own friends, so I sure as hell don't want to be listening to
someone else have one, at high volume, with someone else.

That's nice. I'm not one of those people.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmcquown said:

Dave Smith said:

Miche said:

On the contrary. If I'm in a doctor's waiting room with my
daughter, I may need it to tell my husband where we are.

Of course, because one of your worlds will collapse if you are not in
constant contact.

If it's an emergency that's one thing. A routine doctor's visit shouldn't
necessitate a phone call.

It might if it turns out not to be a routine visit.

Quoted message said:

Oh, and the other thing, at least at my doctor's
office, there are signs everywhere requesting all cell phones be turned off
because they can interfere with the medical equipment being used.

Not at any doctor's office I've seen in New Zealand.

Quoted message said:

What did
people do when there were no cell phones? They used a pay phone or the
phone at the doctor's office to make the call.

Pay phones here are few and far between. And yes, a person can use a
phone in the doctor's office, if there's time.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

In article <[email hidden]>,

Edwin Pawlowski said:

"Miche" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

On the contrary. If I'm in a doctor's waiting room with my daughter, I
may need it to tell my husband where we are.

Miche

And that can be done in 15 seconds or less.

Yes, and that's how long it takes me. In the majority of cases, most
people would never know I'd been using my cellphone.

Quoted message said:

It is the loudmouth that talks
on the phone for 20 minutes and is disruptive that is the problem, no matter
the place.

Absolutely, and I dislike them as much as everyone else.

I just dislike being lumped in with those people just because I have a
cellphone and am not afraid to use it.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

Dan Abel said:

This one only intercepts signals sent by other cell phones. It doesn't
send out signals of its own.

The point was not necessarilly that you were incorrect, but to not
become too complacent.

nb

Dan Abel said:

AFAIK, cell phones only emit signals under three conditions:

Quoted message said:

1. When you turn them on
2. When you move from one cell to another (generally involves driving,
unless your medical facility is several miles long)
3. When you are talking

Quoted message said:

Cell phones do not emit signals just because they are turned on.

Actually, yes they do. Cell phones send out an, "I'm here" signal
on a regular basis. The timing varies, but on the order of every
5 minutes or so. This is how a cell tower knows which phones are
in its area. If a cell phone is on, it is transmitting at least
a short blip every few minutes.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Actually, yes they do. Cell phones send out an, "I'm here" signal
on a regular basis. The timing varies, but on the order of every
5 minutes or so. This is how a cell tower knows which phones are
in its area. If a cell phone is on, it is transmitting at least
a short blip every few minutes.

I was surprised to see that on some real life detective type show,
they were able to show that some suspect was driving a certain
path by what cell phone towers they passed. At first I thought
I misunderstood. Weird.

nancy

In article said:

Dan Abel said:

AFAIK, cell phones only emit signals under three conditions:

Quoted message said:

1. When you turn them on
2. When you move from one cell to another (generally involves driving,
unless your medical facility is several miles long)
3. When you are talking

Quoted message said:

Cell phones do not emit signals just because they are turned on.

Actually, yes they do. Cell phones send out an, "I'm here" signal
on a regular basis. The timing varies, but on the order of every
5 minutes or so. This is how a cell tower knows which phones are
in its area. If a cell phone is on, it is transmitting at least
a short blip every few minutes.

You and Peter are correct, and I am wrong. Your cell phone does in fact
send out a periodic transmission to confirm that it is still there and
waiting. Thanks to Google!

Miche said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmcquown said:

Dave Smith said:

Miche wrote:
>
> On the contrary. If I'm in a doctor's waiting room with my
> daughter, I may need it to tell my husband where we are.
>

Of course, because one of your worlds will collapse if you are not
in constant contact.

If it's an emergency that's one thing. A routine doctor's visit
shouldn't necessitate a phone call.

It might if it turns out not to be a routine visit.

Quoted message said:

Oh, and the other thing, at least at my doctor's
office, there are signs everywhere requesting all cell phones be
turned off because they can interfere with the medical equipment
being used.

Not at any doctor's office I've seen in New Zealand.

And here I thought you folks were so much more on top of things!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What did
people do when there were no cell phones? They used a pay phone or
the phone at the doctor's office to make the call.

Pay phones here are few and far between. And yes, a person can use a
phone in the doctor's office, if there's time.

Miche

Time for what?! CPR? An emergency heart transplant?!

Give me a break. A routine doctor's appointment doesn't require a
minute-to-minute play-by-play pronouncement over a cell phone. Sorry. It's
a kid getting shots or maybe has a cold or the flu or an ear infection. All
routine stuff. I just don't see a cell phone and a call to the husband
being a necessity, unless you want to ask him to pick up some prescriptions
on his way home. Then step outside, call, and ask him to do so.

Jill

Dave Smith <[email hidden]> scripsit in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, we LIKE making up little rules for others to follow, I see
:-) Do you carry a cane to strike them with if they transgress?

No, but if I am with someone I make sure that we raise our voices
enough so that we are interrupting their conversation and much as
they were interrupting ours. It is not a matter of making rules,
just a matter of them having a modicum of respect for the people
around them.

So you demonstrate that by showing little respect for the others around
you? I fail to see how that improves matters. It's a daycare level of
response. If others around you are loud, then the only way to be heard
is to be louder.

--

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's
oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the
search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness." -- John Kenneth Galbraith

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmcquown said:

Miche said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

jmcquown said:

Dave Smith wrote:
> Miche wrote:
>>
>> On the contrary. If I'm in a doctor's waiting room with my
>> daughter, I may need it to tell my husband where we are.
>>
>
> Of course, because one of your worlds will collapse if you are not
> in constant contact.

If it's an emergency that's one thing. A routine doctor's visit
shouldn't necessitate a phone call.

It might if it turns out not to be a routine visit.

Quoted message said:

Oh, and the other thing, at least at my doctor's
office, there are signs everywhere requesting all cell phones be
turned off because they can interfere with the medical equipment
being used.

Not at any doctor's office I've seen in New Zealand.

And here I thought you folks were so much more on top of things!

Very few doctor's offices here have any kind of fancy medical equipment.
If you want an MRI (for instance) you go to hospital.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What did
people do when there were no cell phones? They used a pay phone or
the phone at the doctor's office to make the call.

Pay phones here are few and far between. And yes, a person can use a
phone in the doctor's office, if there's time.

Miche

Time for what?! CPR? An emergency heart transplant?!

I don't know. I haven't been in the situation yet.

Quoted message said:

Give me a break. A routine doctor's appointment doesn't require a
minute-to-minute play-by-play pronouncement over a cell phone.

As I said, it's not _for_ routine doctors' appointments.

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nancy Young said:

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Actually, yes they do. Cell phones send out an, "I'm here" signal
on a regular basis. The timing varies, but on the order of every
5 minutes or so. This is how a cell tower knows which phones are
in its area. If a cell phone is on, it is transmitting at least
a short blip every few minutes.

I was surprised to see that on some real life detective type show,
they were able to show that some suspect was driving a certain
path by what cell phone towers they passed. At first I thought
I misunderstood. Weird.

nancy

That is interesting...

So if your cellphone is transmitting and you place a 911 call (say if
you are about to be attacked) and you drop the phone still connected,
can they use the phone to find your approximate location?

Or do you need a phone with a GPS for that?
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Nancy Young said:

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Actually, yes they do. Cell phones send out an, "I'm here" signal
on a regular basis. The timing varies, but on the order of every
5 minutes or so. This is how a cell tower knows which phones are
in its area. If a cell phone is on, it is transmitting at least
a short blip every few minutes.

I was surprised to see that on some real life detective type show,
they were able to show that some suspect was driving a certain
path by what cell phone towers they passed. At first I thought
I misunderstood. Weird.

Quoted message said:

That is interesting...

It weirded me out a little because the people weren't actually
on the phone. They just had it with them.

Quoted message said:

So if your cellphone is transmitting and you place a 911 call (say if
you are about to be attacked) and you drop the phone still connected,
can they use the phone to find your approximate location?

Or do you need a phone with a GPS for that?

I do not know how fast they can get the information, and it wouldn't
be exact enough, I don't think, for help to find you.

nancy

Omelet said:

can they use the phone to find your approximate location?

I think the key is approximate. Like the James Kim thing, they knew
he was in the vacinity of a specific tower, but it was a very big and
remote vacinity. Plus, I'm not sure how long his cell phone remained
charged or if he had a car/phone charger. That whole episode was
tragic, but also very weird. Here's a guy who was an internet
magazine reviewer of cutting edge hi-tech gadgetry, yet he seemed
puzzlingly ignorant of their use.

nb

notbob said...

Quoted message said:

Omelet said:

can they use the phone to find your approximate location?

I think the key is approximate. Like the James Kim thing, they knew
he was in the vacinity of a specific tower, but it was a very big and
remote vacinity. Plus, I'm not sure how long his cell phone remained
charged or if he had a car/phone charger. That whole episode was
tragic, but also very weird. Here's a guy who was an internet
magazine reviewer of cutting edge hi-tech gadgetry, yet he seemed
puzzlingly ignorant of their use.

nb

My cell phone's last GPS acquired location was taken back on May 31st, 6:11
gmt.

GPS is only accurate to within about 6 meters (about 20 feet), maybe less,
recently. Just recently, the US government is trying to push for increased
resolution (??) for the GPS/E911 system.

Also, GPS needs open sky for acquisition. It doesn't see through roofs of
cars or buildings, etc.

Andy

Andy said:

My cell phone's last GPS acquired location was taken back on May 31st, 6:11
gmt.

GPS is only accurate to within about 6 meters (about 20 feet), maybe less,
recently. Just recently, the US government is trying to push for increased
resolution (??) for the GPS/E911 system.

Also, GPS needs open sky for acquisition. It doesn't see through roofs of
cars or buildings, etc.

Andy

And in many states they are collecting the 911 tax on cellphones and not
even using most of the money for the intended purpose (PA is one of them).

Nancy Young said:

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Actually, yes they do. Cell phones send out an, "I'm here" signal
on a regular basis. The timing varies, but on the order of every
5 minutes or so. This is how a cell tower knows which phones are
in its area. If a cell phone is on, it is transmitting at least
a short blip every few minutes.

I was surprised to see that on some real life detective type show,
they were able to show that some suspect was driving a certain
path by what cell phone towers they passed. At first I thought
I misunderstood. Weird.

nancy

Cell phones are also used for road traffic monitoring in some areas.
Instead of installing equipment they realized they could watch the
cellphones and therefore speeds and congestion.

"George" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Nancy Young wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was surprised to see that on some real life detective type show,
they were able to show that some suspect was driving a certain
path by what cell phone towers they passed. At first I thought
I misunderstood. Weird.

Quoted message said:

Cell phones are also used for road traffic monitoring in some areas.
Instead of installing equipment they realized they could watch the
cellphones and therefore speeds and congestion.

Wow, that's really interesting. Who'd have thought. Considering
that they are hiding black boxes in cars already, I guess it's a
matter of time until all cars have built in GPS like that Lo Jack.

nancy