Carbo confusion

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wrong, wrong, wrong when you are talking about sedentary dieters. Read the book. Atkins demands
that people on his diet exercise. It's an integral part of the whole diet. I rode all last
summer eating only cheese as a snack and drinking only water during a ride. When I rode a
century or a metric century, I would eat the fruit and Gatorade offered at the rest stops. It
works well. I did two centuries (Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild West )and 6 metric
centuries around Texas during the summer while on this diet--as well as countless shorter rides.
Oh--and I lost 38 pounds in 5 months.

Pat in TX

I bet you weren't going very fast during those century rides or you would have needed your carbs.
If you ride really heard it is absolutely impossible without your carbs as fuel. Well to an
extent you can use protein as fuel when you have run out of carbs but you don't ever wanna do
that. It's kind of like the muscles cannibalizing themselves to keep moving ;(

--
Perre

I guess you didn't read what I wrote. I said that I ate carbs during the century rides. I did not,
however, carb load before the event. The Atkins approach uses fats as fuel, and it works. But, I
figured if I was going to pay for the ride, I would eat their food. I guess I didn't ride really
fast, but I go around 21 mph most of the time.

Pat in TX

Yes I guess I didn't read *and understand* exactly what you wrote. I only read the first part about
you stating that he was wrong and triggered on that. However since you confess to needing carbs you
can't say that he's wrong either. A pro probably wouldn't need any carbs at an average of 21 mph but
you and me more likely do 😉

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Just zis Guy said:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:24:58 -0600, Kevan Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Actually, if I were to define an American-style bread, it would be bread with added sugar.

Sugar? Corn syrup, surely?

It's really quite surprising, how much sugar is added as cheap filler to all sorts of foods.

To be fair, a small amount of sugar is necessary in leavened bread in order to invigorate the yeast.
But it needn't be very much.

I've heard stories of sawdust and other unsavoury materials being added to bread as cheap filler
in the past.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

Kevan Smith said:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:33:06 GMT, Dane Jackson <[email hidden]> from Road Runner High Speed
Online rr.comrr.comOpen ↗ wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course, as my sister-in-law forced me to realize, some people have little to *no* idea what a
sensible diet is. They don't cook so they don't know what goes into food. Even if they did cook,
they only have the sketchiest ideas what the fat/protein/carbohydrate mix is in foods. For example
they think that since sour cream is a milk product it's *just* like milk. And they always tell you
to get lots of dairy right?

Quoted message said:

No, they don't.

In case you missed the sarcasm, I was playing the part of ignorant.

Quoted message said:

And the freakin' food pyramid and dietary recommendations are on the package of almost everything.
People know what a sensible diet is. MAny just choose not to have one in favor of indulgence.

You would think so, but you would be wrong. You are underestimating peoples will to be oblivious.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "I don't see anything wrong with being
arrogant and not at all helpful." -- Paul Tomblin

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Sugar? Corn syrup, surely?

high fructose corn syrup.

that, right there, is american food. it's in freakin' everything.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

To be fair, a small amount of sugar is necessary in leavened bread in order to invigorate the
yeast. But it needn't be very much.

My wife, who is an avocational master baker, tells me that is a common myth. There are usually more
than enough nutrients in flour for the yeast to do its work. I understand that the reason many of us
Americans add sugar is because mass bread manufacturers discovered that they could increase
production rates with added sugar ... causing the yeasts (whether added as dry yeast or through a
leaven/sourdough starter) to become overactive. Similarly, recipe books catering to home cooks who
wanted to spend less time letting bread rise adopted this technique. Soon it became folklore that
you "should" add sugar. I am told that while the sugar will reduce the time of the rising, it will
also adversely affect flavor. If you were to sample my wife's bread (whether whites, whole-
wheats/blends, or other grains), you will taste what I mean.

Mark

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 01:19:35 GMT, Dane Jackson <[email hidden]> from Road

Runner High Speed Online url='http://www.rr.com/'http://www.rr.com/url said:

You would think so, but you would be wrong. You are underestimating peoples will to be oblivious.

I think I'm understanding well the temptation to gluttony in American culture. If people are
oblivious to how to eat well, it is because they don't want to feel guilt over their overeating.

--
[email hidden]
Use fewer notes.
68

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:24:27 -0800, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

wrote in message : said:

To be fair, a small amount of sugar is necessary in leavened bread in order to invigorate the
yeast. But it needn't be very much.

Er, no it's not. My wife bakes her own bread and no sugar is used. It might be necessary when baking
with the chemically adjusted taste-free white [censored] that passes for flour in steam-baked white [aka
cotton wool] bread, but who would want to eat that anyway?

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

On 08 Feb 2004 01:27:35 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]> wrote
in message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

high fructose corn syrup. that, right there, is american food. it's in freakin' everything.

I confess: I read Fat Land :-)

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:40:55 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"

from Disorganised said:

On 08 Feb 2004 01:27:35 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

high fructose corn syrup. that, right there, is american food. it's in freakin' everything.

I confess: I read Fat Land :-)

That's an excellent book. Of course, we here in rbm already knwo the cure for America's obesity
epidemic : bicycle!

--
[email hidden]
Take a break.
121

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:06:30 -0600, Kevan Smith
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Of course, we here in rbm already knwo the cure for America's obesity epidemic : bicycle!

Works for me :-)

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Kevan Smith said:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 01:19:35 GMT, Dane Jackson <[email hidden]> from Road Runner High Speed
Online rr.comrr.comOpen ↗ wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You would think so, but you would be wrong. You are underestimating peoples will to be oblivious.

Quoted message said:

I think I'm understanding well the temptation to gluttony in American culture. If people are
oblivious to how to eat well, it is because they don't want to feel guilt over their overeating.

Nope, my sister-in-law is just generally clueless about nutrition. My wife is trying to educate her
now. All throughout her life my SIL never thought about what she ate, she was the highly active
skinny one. She didn't cook or diet or do any of the other things that would make her aware of
what's in food. Of course, now she's older, has children, and has a desk job so she's starting to
gain weight.

For example, she was complaining that her dieting wasn't working to my wife. And she was telling my
wife some of the things she was eating, "and for lunch I've just been having some potato soup." Well
it turned out it was "loaded potato soup", which is basically potato, cheese, sour cream & bacon.

My point is that lack of knowledge is another part of the problem, not just gluttony and sedentary
lifestyles (though those are definitely the largest portion).

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as
comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at
the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower. To think otherwise is to demean the Buddha --
which is to demean oneself. -- Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Weiss said:

Quoted message said:

To be fair, a small amount of sugar is necessary in leavened bread in order to invigorate the
yeast. But it needn't be very much.

My wife, who is an avocational master baker, tells me that is a common myth. There are usually
more than enough nutrients in flour for the yeast to do its work. I understand that the reason
many of us Americans add sugar is because mass bread manufacturers discovered that they could
increase production rates with added sugar ... causing the yeasts (whether added as dry yeast or
through a leaven/sourdough starter) to become overactive. Similarly, recipe books catering to home
cooks who wanted to spend less time letting bread rise adopted this technique. Soon it became
folklore that you "should" add sugar. I am told that while the sugar will reduce the time of the
rising, it will also adversely affect flavor.

Okay, fair enough. I went overboard with my use of the word "necessary".

Discussions of yeasts, enzymes & temperature ranges aside, my point is that there are a lot of foods
that have sugar added to them - often unnecessarily. Just checking casually around my larder,
examples include a tub of (cheap) peanut butter, a tin of water chestnuts and a tin of Campbell's
soup. If I had a bottle of catsup, I bet that would be loaded with sugar, to an extent rivalling
pancake syrup. In processed foods the stuff is insidiously everywhere.

There are better brands of peanut butter available with no added sugar, but I can rarely
afford them. The "budget brands" of foods always seem to be the ones with the most added sugar
(cheap filler).

Quoted message said:

If you were to sample my wife's bread (whether whites, whole-wheats/blends, or other grains), you
will taste what I mean.

I'd love to ;-) Meanwhile, I'm just enjoying my cuppa coffee -- a splash of milk (in first),
and no sugar.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's not "just another designer diet."

Yes, it is. It's just another fad diet that goes in and out of style over

the

Quoted message said:

years. Atkins didn't even really "invent" it. That dubious honor goes to

William

Quoted message said:

Banting circa 1863.

Some fad, then....lasted over 140 years.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm in what he called the "maintenance phase" which means not eating so

much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

protein and fat while integrating low glycemic carbs into the diet.

Haven't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

gained anything back since October. I have practically NO interest in

sugar

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or sweetened foods, though, and that's a nice by-product of the diet.

So you are in a mainenance phase where your caloric consumption matches

closely

Quoted message said:

enough your caloric exopenditure? Before, how many calories per day were

you

Quoted message said:

eating and burning?

I dunno. I'm in the phase where I pretty much eat what I want. It's just that after doing this diet
a while, you get to where you look for low glycemic foods, stay away from sugar, add more fiber and
water, and that cuts out a lot of the junk food desire.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

My point is that lack of knowledge is another part of the problem, not just gluttony and sedentary
lifestyles (though those are definitely the largest portion).

--
Dane Jackson -

I pretty much agree with the lack of knowledge idea, but where I don't agree is when people try to
tell you "I had no choice!" or "they didn't teach me that in school, so it's not my fault" or "We've
been brainwashed!" All just excuses....

I don't know how we can argue that *other* people are gluttons. Maybe they are stressed out and
short of time in a fast-paced world.

And sedentary? hmm. I used to work at a place where there was a large customer service section. The
women who worked there were prone to bringing cakes and cookies to work, putting the food on a
community table, and people would snack all day long. Why? They were bored out of their skulls!
Having to sit at a "workstation" and answer dumb questions on the phone all day long, not much
autonomy in their jobs, getting $12 an hour, and doing this year after year after year. They would
have a coke or a cup of coffee on their desks, too, but usually a coke. Then, they would go home to
2 or 3 kids and have to start a "second shift" of work. They didn't have time to go to a gym or get
much exercise outside of work. Are these situations ONLY American situations? It seems to me that
they would occur any place around the globe where people work in offices.

Pat in TX

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

My point is that lack of knowledge is another part of the problem, not just gluttony and
sedentary lifestyles (though those are definitely the largest portion).

--
Dane Jackson -

I pretty much agree with the lack of knowledge idea, but where I don't agree is when people try to
tell you "I had no choice!" or "they didn't teach me that in school, so it's not my fault" or
"We've been brainwashed!" All just excuses....

I don't know how we can argue that *other* people are gluttons. Maybe they are stressed out and
short of time in a fast-paced world.

And sedentary? hmm. I used to work at a place where there was a large customer service section.
The women who worked there were prone to bringing cakes and cookies to work, putting the food on a
community table, and people would snack all day long. Why? They were bored out of their skulls!
Having to sit at a "workstation" and answer dumb questions on the phone all day long, not much
autonomy in their jobs, getting $12 an hour, and doing this year after year after year. They would
have a coke or a cup of coffee on their desks, too, but usually a coke. Then, they would go home
to 2 or 3 kids and have to start a "second shift" of work. They didn't have time to go to a gym or
get much exercise outside of work. Are these situations ONLY American situations? It seems to me
that they would occur any place around the globe where people work in offices.

Pat in TX

Of course these situations occur all over the world. But still it's only in the U.S. that people get
obesely overweight from it. I remember working for an Ericsson Company in Sweden a couple of years
ago. Ericsson sold it to a U.S. company and all of a sudden we'd see all those incredibly fat people
in our cafeteria. To us it was quite a shock. Bottom line is that these people were doing exactly
the same jobs that we were doing in the same kind of offices and using the same kind of tools etc.
But they weighed more than twice as much as us. The doubles were the once we considered normal. Some
of them probably weighed three and four times as much.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:30:46 -0800, <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

In processed foods the stuff is insidiously everywhere.

I think it's added to disguise the taste all the unpronounceable stuff that's further down on the
list of ingredients.
--
zk

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:24:27 -0800, [email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

To be fair, a small amount of sugar is necessary in leavened bread in order to invigorate the
yeast. But it needn't be very much.

Er, no it's not. My wife bakes her own bread and no sugar is used. It might be necessary when
baking with the chemically adjusted taste-free white [censored] that passes for flour in steam-baked
white [aka cotton wool] bread, but who would want to eat that anyway?

Get yourself to tesco and read the labels. Very few loaves will have added sugar, even the crappy
white bread.

The first time I bought something claiming to be "american bread", its label was not in english and
I thought I had made a mistake and bought something that was not normal bread. (Well, I as
partially right).

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:40:55 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> from

Disorganised said:

On 08 Feb 2004 01:27:35 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

high fructose corn syrup. that, right there, is american food. it's in freakin' everything.

I confess: I read Fat Land :-)

That's an excellent book. Of course, we here in rbm already knwo the cure

for

Quoted message said:

America's obesity epidemic : bicycle!

I doubt it. I am neither american or thin.

... This corn syrup lark sounds to me like another excuse for those people who have no self control.
I resent this of course, as my food (esp bread, I read all the labels) is not laced with sugar at
all, and especially not HFCS, and I'm not getting slimmer.

I admit it, its all my fault, and doing 150 miles a week just makes me hungry!

Quoted message said:

Of course these situations occur all over the world. But still it's only

in

Quoted message said:

the U.S. that people get obesely overweight from it. I remember working for an Ericsson Company in
Sweden a couple of years

ago.

Quoted message said:

Ericsson sold it to a U.S. company and all of a sudden we'd see all those incredibly fat people in
our cafeteria. To us it was quite a shock. Bottom line is that these people were doing exactly the
same jobs that we were doing in the same kind of offices and using the same kind of tools

etc.

Quoted message said:

But they weighed more than twice as much as us. The doubles were the once

we

Quoted message said:

considered normal. Some of them probably weighed three and four times as much.

--
Perre

Thanks. It's wonderful to know that only people in the U.S. get fat. I think back to when I was
living in Germany and there for sure weren't any fat Germans walking around. All that sausage and
beer and heavy bread sure keeps them slim!

Pat in TX