Can you make it to the market on a bike?



D

donquijote1954

Guest
Well, I thought I'd never live long enough to do such a thing in
America. It keeps me fit, and hungry enough to enjoy all that great
(and not so great) food, as well as keeps me away from the crowd that
uses an SUV to go and get a gallon of milk --or worse, cigarettes.
Luckily in my new place I can do such a thing, if not by design by
chance. I can ride leisurely my cruiser with huge baskets to the
supermaket through some quiet, safe streets, about 0.7 mile. I bet
most American are not so lucky, and I don't think the share of bicycle
use for shopping and similar real life errands is any higher than the
percentage that commutes by bike, about 1% or so, right?

Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule. And
that's a jungle that makes me nervous. Great places are within biking
distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe. As a matter of
fact the need to enjoy all this made me found another way to get out
there in the open air without being at the very bottom of the food
chain. So I just got a scooter that allows me to drive with traffic,
if not strictly pollution free, at least rewarding me with a good
80MPG.

So this is my modest effort to fight Global Warming, and I hope I live
long enough in these Darwinian roads to tell my offspring. And now off
I go with my bike (buying nothing in particular, just going to the
market for the hell of it)...

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

BIKE FOR PEACE
http://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace
 
I recently purchased a brand new Road Bike that is really nice. I
figured I didn't need anything more rugged since I do most of my
biking in the city. I can bike theoreticly anywhere in the city, but
there are a few neighborhoods I like to avoid, but not many and I have
experience biking through them anyways. In Minneapolis, there are a
lot of designated bike paths, such as the Greenway (
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/bike/images/greenway.jpg ) which makes it
much easier to get around.
 
Yes, I go to the market on the bike all the time. Actually, there are
several different markets I bike to. Not all marketing routes have bike
paths, but most are either not all that busy, or have shoulders, so I'm fine
with that.
 
On Jul 22, 6:21 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Well, I thought I'd never live long enough to do such a thing in
> America.

It can be pleasant, eh? I use a mix of bucket panniers, a backpack-on-
a-rack, or the backpack and a cardboard box from the store on the
rack. We live in one of those Toronto neighborhoods that's like a
village, so a lot is possible.

This weekend, I rode a couple kms to Kensington Market. One in the
market proper (Baldwin and Augusta), travel by anything but bike or
foot would have been impossible. I went to the butcher, the
greengrocer, the cheese shop, and the nuts and spice and tea store.
All shops were active, but I never had to stand in line long enough to
even *look* for an Enquirer. Zoom zoom.
 
On Jul 22, 7:21 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Well, I thought I'd never live long enough to do such a thing in
> America. It keeps me fit, and hungry enough to enjoy all that great
> (and not so great) food, as well as keeps me away from the crowd that
> uses an SUV to go and get a gallon of milk --or worse, cigarettes.
> Luckily in my new place I can do such a thing, if not by design by
> chance. I can ride leisurely my cruiser with huge baskets to the
> supermaket through some quiet, safe streets, about 0.7 mile. I bet
> most American are not so lucky, and I don't think the share of bicycle
> use for shopping and similar real life errands is any higher than the
> percentage that commutes by bike, about 1% or so, right?
>
> Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
> places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule. And
> that's a jungle that makes me nervous. Great places are within biking
> distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
> NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe. As a matter of
> fact the need to enjoy all this made me found another way to get out
> there in the open air without being at the very bottom of the food
> chain. So I just got a scooter that allows me to drive with traffic,
> if not strictly pollution free, at least rewarding me with a good
> 80MPG.
>
> So this is my modest effort to fight Global Warming, and I hope I live
> long enough in these Darwinian roads to tell my offspring. And now off
> I go with my bike (buying nothing in particular, just going to the
> market for the hell of it)...
>
> WELCOME TO THE JUNGLEhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
>
> BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

I'm car-free, and I can haul a LOT of groceries with my cargo trike:

http://drumbent.com/trike.html

Also, since it's big and takes up a whole lane I don't get hassled at
all in terms of asserting my right to be on the road (having lights
and turn signals helps). ;)

And not only can I get groceries with it, I just moved house with it
too:

http://drumbent.blogspot.com/2007/07/even-more-moving-photos.html

Mark
 
donquijote1954 wrote:

> Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
> places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule. And
> that's a jungle that makes me nervous. Great places are within biking
> distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
> NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe.

Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Always use the bike paths whenever you can. They are much more pleasant than
> using the mean streets where you have to compete with motorized vehicles.

Always avoid bike paths when it is legally possible. It is much safer
that way.
 
Well done!

One only has to read Bill Bryson's book 'Notes from a Big Country' to
realise just how pervasive the automobile is in America. Trying to get
anywhere other than by car is difficult - even crossing over the road
from his hotel to a diner. The one anecdote that made me howl with
laughter was when he returned to the US for a while and invited his
neighbours to dinner -they came by car! They drove down their drive,
turned left and then drove up his drive.

My weekly shop at Lidls is via my 'shopping bike' front rack, rear
rack, panniers, plastic box on rear rack, big solid mountain back
carrying all. Though I say it myself I have it down to a fine art
now - much to the amusement of my 4 x 4 'Chelsea tractor' owning
neighbours.
 
On Jul 22, 10:35 pm, William <[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently purchased a brand new Road Bike that is really nice. I
> figured I didn't need anything more rugged since I do most of my
> biking in the city. I can bike theoreticly anywhere in the city, but
> there are a few neighborhoods I like to avoid, but not many and I have
> experience biking through them anyways. In Minneapolis, there are a
> lot of designated bike paths, such as the Greenway (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/bike/images/greenway.jpg) which makes it
> much easier to get around.

Lovely. It's coming my way too. The question is WHEN. I hope to be
alive anyway.
 
On Jul 22, 10:51 pm, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "William" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >I recently purchased a brand new Road Bike that is really nice. I
> > figured I didn't need anything more rugged since I do most of my
> > biking in the city. I can bike theoreticly anywhere in the city, but
> > there are a few neighborhoods I like to avoid, but not many and I have
> > experience biking through them anyways. In Minneapolis, there are a
> > lot of designated bike paths, such as the Greenway (
> >http://www.dot.state.mn.us/bike/images/greenway.jpg) which makes it
> > much easier to get around.
>
> Always use the bike paths whenever you can. They are much more pleasant than
> using the mean streets where you have to compete with motorized vehicles.
>
> I believe Minneapolis to have one of the finer bike path systems in the
> country. Not to use them would mean that you are an idiot, yet there are
> some who would advise that since they believe that a bike path will slow you
> down. Hey, better to slow down and live than hurry to your death on those
> mean streets.
>

Nice advice. Regrettably, there are still too many idiots out there --
and they have a loud voice.
 
On Jul 23, 12:25 am, [email protected] wrote:

> I'm car-free, and I can haul a LOT of groceries with my cargo trike:
>
> http://drumbent.com/trike.html
>
> Also, since it's big and takes up a whole lane I don't get hassled at
> all in terms of asserting my right to be on the road (having lights
> and turn signals helps). ;)
>
> And not only can I get groceries with it, I just moved house with it
> too:
>
> http://drumbent.blogspot.com/2007/07/even-more-moving-photos.html

Congratulations, Mark. That's the way too go. Actually I think it
takes more courage to do what you do than to fight in Iraq. And at
least you do it for a good cause.

But around here I'd have to engage in many hand-to-hand combats with
enraged drivers.
 
On Jul 23, 12:28 am, Jens Müller <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
> > places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule. And
> > that's a jungle that makes me nervous. Great places are within biking
> > distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
> > NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe.
>
> Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
> do you think the carriageway isn't safe?

Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...

Why is speed differential important?
A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly. Rear-end
collisions are very common on roads and streets with large driveway
speed differentials and a high density of commercial driveways. When
the speed differential is high, it is also more likely that crashes
will be more severe, cause greater property damage, and result in more
injuries and fatalities.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...+SPEED+DIFFERENTIAL&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us
 
On Jul 23, 3:07 am, Jens Müller <[email protected]> wrote:
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> > Always use the bike paths whenever you can. They are much more pleasantthan
> > using the mean streets where you have to compete with motorized vehicles.
>
> Always avoid bike paths when it is legally possible. It is much safer
> that way.

Facing the mean streets is much safer. Just raise a white flag and
play dead!
 
donquijote1954 wrote:

>> Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
>> do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
>
> Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...
>
> Why is speed differential important?
> A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
> concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
> hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
> vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.

At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
lanes.

> Rear-end
> collisions are very common on roads

In the US? Don't know about that. Here in Germany they occur mostly at
the end of traffic jams.
 
On Jul 23, 12:29 pm, Jens Müller <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >> Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
> >> do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
>
> > Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...
>
> > Why is speed differential important?
> > A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
> > concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
> > hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
> > vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.
>
> At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
> lanes.

You are going 12mph on the bike, and a car is coming behind you at
50mph. Would that be safe?
 
donquijote1954 wrote:
> On Jul 23, 12:29 pm, Jens Müller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>>> Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? Andwhy
>>>> do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
>>> Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...
>>> Why is speed differential important?
>>> A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
>>> concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
>>> hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
>>> vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.
>> At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
>> lanes.
>
> You are going 12mph on the bike, and a car is coming behind you at
> 50mph. Would that be safe?

It is as safe as the person driving the car, and the way
they overtake you. If the driver is unsafe overtaking a
12mph bike, then that driver will also be unsafe in a lot
of other places, and should not be driving.

Remember that car drivers should be able to stop in the
distance that they can see.
 
On Jul 23, 5:50 am, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jul 23, 12:28 am, Jens Müller <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > donquijote1954 wrote:
> > > Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
> > > places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule. And
> > > that's a jungle that makes me nervous. Great places are within biking
> > > distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
> > > NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe.
>
> > Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
> > do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
>
> Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...

Bike lanes don't change the speed differential!

Bike lanes also don't add any pavement width. The only thing they add
is a white stripe - and more trash at the right hand (in the US) side
of the roadway, because cars no longer sweep it clean. Oh, and they
add dangerous complication at intersections.

Generally, if there's enough width for a MV lane and a bike lane,
there's enough width to safely share without a white stripe.

As to the original post: IME, it's not uncommon for people to think
"I can't get there by bike," when they've simply not explored
alternative routes well enough.

When I've moved to a new area or spent extensive time visiting a new
area, I've always gotten a detailed street map. Often, I'll tape it
to the wall. That allows me to see alternative routes I might
otherwise miss.

If you're afraid of the busy arterials, you could mark them red. Then
look for alternative parallel routes on smaller streets. Mark those
green, if you like. Also, find out what the local 14-year-olds use
for shortcuts. Those kids explore everything, like ants. They know
about the secret little dirt path that connects the park to the
parking lot, etc.

Admittedly, the modern fashion of transforming corn fields into
isolated cul-de-sac developments makes this difficult in many areas.
But older areas of town can often be peacefully accessed, once you
stop thinking like a car driver.

- Frank Krygowski
 
On Jul 23, 1:04 pm, Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > On Jul 23, 12:29 pm, Jens Müller <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >>>> Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? Andwhy
> >>>> do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
> >>> Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...
> >>> Why is speed differential important?
> >>> A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
> >>> concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
> >>> hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
> >>> vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.
> >> At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
> >> lanes.
>
> > You are going 12mph on the bike, and a car is coming behind you at
> > 50mph. Would that be safe?
>
> It is as safe as the person driving the car, and the way
> they overtake you. If the driver is unsafe overtaking a
> 12mph bike, then that driver will also be unsafe in a lot
> of other places, and should not be driving.
>
> Remember that car drivers should be able to stop in the
> distance that they can see.-

That's the problem here, many people shouldn't be driving.

It should be the opposite: EVERYBODY SHOULD RIDE A BIKE and not a car.
 
On Jul 23, 2:33 pm, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "archierob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:Ay%[email protected]...
>
> > Well done!
>
> > One only has to read Bill Bryson's book 'Notes from a Big Country' to
> > realise just how pervasive the automobile is in America. Trying to get
> > anywhere other than by car is difficult - even crossing over the road
> > from his hotel to a diner. The one anecdote that made me howl with
> > laughter was when he returned to the US for a while and invited his
> > neighbours to dinner -they came by car! They drove down their drive,
> > turned left and then drove up his drive.
>
> The thing that amazes me the most is that in small town America everyone
> drives everywhere, even if it is only a few blocks. No wonder we are all
> turning into fat slobs.
>
> I will NEVER drive my car in town. I use it strictly for going to other
> towns in the vicinity. You can go anywhere in this town of Worthington,
> Minnesota (12,000 pop.) in 15 minutes by bicycle at the most. Why the hell
> would anyone except an idiot want to drive these very small distances. And
> yet, EVERYONE does!
> [...]

The word "idiots" explains everything. Thanks!
 
"donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jul 23, 1:04 pm, Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > On Jul 23, 12:29 pm, Jens Müller <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >>>> Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And
> >>>> why
> >>>> do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
> >>> Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...
> >>> Why is speed differential important?
> >>> A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
> >>> concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
> >>> hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
> >>> vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.
> >> At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
> >> lanes.
>
> > You are going 12mph on the bike, and a car is coming behind you at
> > 50mph. Would that be safe?
>
> It is as safe as the person driving the car, and the way
> they overtake you. If the driver is unsafe overtaking a
> 12mph bike, then that driver will also be unsafe in a lot
> of other places, and should not be driving.
>
> Remember that car drivers should be able to stop in the
> distance that they can see.-

That's the problem here, many people shouldn't be driving.

It should be the opposite: EVERYBODY SHOULD RIDE A BIKE and not a car.

That is like saying everyone should take a steamship to Europe, and not fly
because you think they should.
 
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