Both computers crashed at the same time...

Dave W. said:

I always thought of Hawaii as a sort of paradise on earth.
Even paradises have their down sides, I guess.

I had a friend tell me Hawaii is like a freakin' sauna bath.
That's enough to keep me far away. I suspect people from
areas other than the 13 Western states are not bothered by
this and think Hawaii is a real paradise. Most Left
Coaster's have never experience any kind of real humidity
and consider it a living Hell. I know I do, and so avoid it
like the plague.

nb

Nancy Young said:

It was eerie, when lightning melted my telephone wires and
burned out a bunch of other stuff, my phone rang really
loud and died. Almost like a last gasp. Like, BANG!
(thunder) Flash (lightning) and RING! Had to peel me off
the ceiling.

Sheldon brought up a good point -- ensure you have proper
grounding. Telephones are not as big of a deal but the
electrical system *must* be well-grounded or your house is
in danger. If you have an older house where the ground goes
through the cold water pipe I highly recommend you have a
licensed electrician install a grounding rod. Newer houses
are required to have a grounding rod so you do not
electrocute yourself if you run the faucet when lightning
strikes. I've even heard of electricity flowing through
pipes and causing small fires when lightning goes to ground.

I don't know what Sheldon was talking about with three
wires. The grounding rod in my house is a huge stake, about
ten feet long, that is driven into the ground between my
house and the air conditioner. It is hooked directly into
the circuit breaker box via a thick wire.

--
John Gaughan johngaughan.netjohngaughan.netOpen ↗
[email hidden]

notbob said:

Dave W. said:

I always thought of Hawaii as a sort of paradise on
earth. Even paradises have their down sides, I guess.

I had a friend tell me Hawaii is like a freakin' sauna
bath. That's

enough

Quoted message said:

to keep me far away. I suspect people from areas other than
the 13 Western states are not bothered by this and think
Hawaii is a real

paradise.

Quoted message said:

Most Left Coaster's have never experience any kind of
real humidity

and

Quoted message said:

consider it a living Hell. I know I do, and so avoid
it like the

plague.

Quoted message said:

nb

Hey nb...Hawaii has 10 of the world's 11 climates in Hawaii.
Do not paint with such a broad brush. 8 major islands with
all sorts of climates.

Yes, tourist areas tend to be next to the sea and the
warmth!. Kili lives, I think, in Lahaina, Maui--next to the
sea. But we coffee farmers live on another island, on the
slopes of a huge mountain at an elevation of 1,869 feet (one
son has a GPS). We often have cooler summer days than winter
days because of the convection showers that rain daily
coffee loves it! I hate the heat too. The humidity is nice
in some ways--our hair is wavier🙂 our skin is not scaly
from lack of humidity etc. And when we want heat we know
where to head to.

I went to school on the mainland for 10 years and that
forced hot air which is totally necessary in the winter to
keep warm wreaks havoc with its total lack of any moisture.
I have only had nosebleeds on the East Coast and that was
awful. I promise that Our summers are never as hot as those
in Boston. The prevailing trade winds keep our air moving.

Be gentle with Hawaii.

aloha from South Kona, Hawaii island, Thunder
smithfarms.comsmithfarms.comOpen ↗ Farmers & Sellers of 100% Kona
Coffee & other Great Stuff

notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:y7xjc.51303$w96.4586529@attbi_s54...

Quoted message said:

Dave W. said:

I always thought of Hawaii as a sort of paradise on
earth. Even paradises have their down sides, I guess.

I had a friend tell me Hawaii is like a freakin' sauna
bath. That's

enough

Quoted message said:

to keep me far away. I suspect people from areas other
than the 13 Western states are not bothered by this and
think Hawaii is a real

paradise.

Quoted message said:

Most Left Coaster's have never experience any kind of real
humidity and consider it a living Hell. I know I do, and
so avoid it like the plague.

nb

Yeah, in summer Hawaii is an unbearable place to be. Not
many people have air-conditioning in their homes and it's so
hot that you have to go to the movies to cool off. It's
frustrating taking a shower in the way that when you get out
you are just as sweaty as before you went in. If I lived
upcountry, the temperature is at least 20 degrees cooler,
but it's also a LOT more expensive.

kili

"smithfarms pure kona" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

notbob said:

Dave W. said:

I always thought of Hawaii as a sort of paradise on
earth. Even paradises have their down sides, I guess.

I had a friend tell me Hawaii is like a freakin' sauna
bath. That's

enough

Quoted message said:

to keep me far away. I suspect people from areas other
than the 13 Western states are not bothered by this and
think Hawaii is a real

paradise.

Quoted message said:

Most Left Coaster's have never experience any kind of
real humidity

and

Quoted message said:

consider it a living Hell. I know I do, and so avoid it
like the

plague.

Quoted message said:

nb

Hey nb...Hawaii has 10 of the world's 11 climates in
Hawaii. Do not paint with such a broad brush. 8 major
islands with all sorts of climates.

Yes, tourist areas tend to be next to the sea and the
warmth!. Kili lives, I think, in Lahaina, Maui--next to
the sea.

Actually, I live in Wailuku - it's kind of dry, but on the
windward side which is GREAT in the wintertime, but no
trades seem to come thru in the summer. We're also right at
sea level so we don't pick up the rain showers that you get.

Quoted message said:

But we coffee farmers live on another island, on the
slopes of a huge mountain at an elevation of 1,869 feet
(one son has a GPS). We often have cooler summer days than
winter days because of the convection showers that rain
daily coffee loves it! I hate the heat too. The humidity
is nice in some ways--our hair is wavier🙂 our skin is not
scaly from lack of humidity etc. And when we want heat we
know where to head to.

I do love my hair being wavier! This is so true! When I was
a kid, my mom used to tell me how ugly I was because my hair
was so straight; it's not straight anymore! 🙂 If I have to
go to the mainland, my lips always get chapped because it's
so much drier there, and I can see small lines appear in my
face. But, yes, for me, if I need to be cooler, I go
upcountry to Kula or Haiku or Olinda.

Quoted message said:

I went to school on the mainland for 10 years and that
forced hot air which is totally necessary in the winter to
keep warm wreaks havoc with its total lack of any
moisture. I have only had nosebleeds on the East Coast and
that was awful. I promise that Our summers are never as
hot as those in Boston. The prevailing trade winds keep
our air moving.

Be gentle with Hawaii.

aloha from South Kona, Hawaii island, Thunder
smithfarms.comsmithfarms.comOpen ↗ Farmers & Sellers of 100% Kona
Coffee & other Great Stuff

Pssst....Hey, Thunder, don't tell everyone how great it is
here! We're getting crowded! :-)

kili

I read of so many CD manufacturing techniques that were
suggested for CDs that I never really learned which methods
are actually used on which CDs. Better CDs have a
protective layer so that the environment and physical
scratches will not degrade a sensitive recording surface.
Cheaper CDs don't have this protective surface. However I
don't know if all types of
R/W CDs have this protective surface.

Dave W. said:

I always thought of Hawaii as a sort of paradise on earth.
Even paradises have their down sides, I guess.

Hmmm... Since you don't have a pic to show me I'll have to
run an experiment. I'll stick a CD in a Tupperware
container ... but I'll fill the container with water
first. That should do it. Yes?

Even thirty years ago, power supplies contained functions so
that a PSU could not damage computer parts. But today, with
so many building computers without technical knowledge, then
many computers are missing essential functions. Here is an
example of a 'defective by design' supply that can damage the
hard drive. The price alone suggests essential functions are
missing:
newegg.comViewProductDesc.aspOpen ↗

If power supply failure damages other components, then
failure is traceable to the human. Even Intel demands
those essential functions be in a computer power supply.

If the retail list price of a power supply is less than
$60, then suspect the worst. Notice a list of numerical
specifications (that should be at least one page long) is
not even provided. Why provide specs when they are only
selling inferior products to bean counter types - often
called clone computer assemblers?

Disk drive is an excellent backup. But that assumes other
essential components in the system (and in the building)
have been installed.

Matt said:

You will probably be okay, but I have seen cases where the
power supply went bad and took other components down with
it, including hard drives. That's one downside of using
something like a usb drive as your only backup -- a bad
power problem could destroy all connected devices. For
stuff that's really important, I'd still keep a CD backup
and use the spare hard drive as a current backup. Just
occasionally update the CD backup so that if, by chance,
the hard drive dies you've still got something to fall
back upon. It may sound like paranoid overkill, but I've
seen people kill both their machines and their backups --
or kill their machines and find out that their backup
didn't work.

Regards, Matt

Lightning seeks earth ground. Appliances - ie portable phone
base station - are damaged because lightning found a path
from cloud to earth via that appliance. A complete electric
circuit with both an incoming and outgoing path. Franklin
realized lightning struck church steeples to obtain earth
ground. He simply connected lightning in an electrically
shorter path to earth ground. We call that a Franklin
lightning rod - taught in primary school science.

Surge protection is the same thing. Lightning must be
earthed before entering a building. Most common path is
incoming on AC electric. One well proven and universal
solution is the 'whole house' surge protector. But one
would be 'uneducated by Franklin' to think a protector is
protection. What makes those lightning rods effective?
Quality of the earth ground. What makes a surge protector
effective? A less than 10 foot connection from each
incoming utility to the same (common) earth ground.

Concepts discussed previously in two discussions: "RJ-11
line protection?" on 31 Dec 2003 in pdx.computing at
tinyurl.com2hl53Open ↗ and "Opinions on Surge
Protectors?" on 7 Jul 2003 in the newsgroup alt.certification.a-
plus at tinyurl.coml3m9Open ↗

How can something so simple be so involved? Concept is
that well understood and that well proven (since well
before WWII). Anyone recommending APC solutions is hyping
(without technical knowledge) urban myths. Even APC does
not claim the protection that that poster feels he owns.
Obvious even in the numerical specs provided by APC.

A surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground
- which APC avoids mentioning. Those APC products have no
effective earthing. No earth ground means no effective
protection. That bottom line also explains why some
suffered damage - such as the damaged portable phone base
station. Lightning found a better path to earth via that
phone - because a human failed to install well proven
'whole house' protectors connection to a single point
earth ground. Read those two previous discussions to
appreciate the myths that sell those APC products and
other plug-in protectors.

Exposed are ineffective solutions promoted by myth.
Recommended are solutions so effective that surge damage
is directly traceable to human failure.

Quoted message said:

John Gaughan said:

How would a surge fry a cordless phone?

The base station for the phone can certainly be damaged by
a lightning strike or heavy current surge.

w_tom said:

://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-
103-428&depa=0

That's a good price. Thanks!

Best regards, Bob

kilikini said:

"smithfarms pure kona" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:54:38 GMT, notbob
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 2004-04-27, Dave W. <[email hidden]> wrote:

Pssst....Hey, Thunder, don't tell everyone how great
it is here!

We're

Quoted message said:

getting crowded! :-)

kili

Okay Kili, I won't tell🙂. I lived in Iao Valley (Pukalani,
Haliimaile & Kula) all for several years. Yes it can get
warm. Wailuku has some beautiful old buildings and now that
I think back, nice mango trees too🙂. Sorry I had you in
Lahaina🙂.

hang loose and with aloha, Thunder

smithfarms.comsmithfarms.comOpen ↗
Farmers & Sellers of 100%
Kona Coffee & other Great Stuff

It is a [censored] power supply sold only to fools. Sold in
America where the technically naive mask as computer experts
- clone computer assemblers - scam artists. Observe the
specs. It is a lousy price because essential functions are
missing. Functions that put disk drives, Ram, CPU,
motherboard, keyboard, modem, and data all at risk.

zxcvbob said:

w_tom wrote:

ttp://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-
103-428&depa=0

Quoted message said:

That's a good price. Thanks!

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:36:56 GMT, sf <[email hidden]> arranged
random neurons, so they looked like this:

Quoted message said:

There are ways to recover your files if you're willing to
shell out the bucks for it.

Most of the time, that's true. My hard drive crash last year
was so severe that, even after I sent it out to a recovery
service and was willing to cough up whatever $$$ it took,
couldn't recover a single byte of data. I now have a second
hard drive that I back up faithfully and an offsite nightly
data upload. Suspenders, belt. I never want to go through
that again. Ever.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret
had been as old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had
been as full as the waitress', it would have been a very
good dinner." Anonymous.

To reply, remove replace "shcox" with "cox"

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:54:38 GMT, notbob <[email hidden]> arranged
random neurons, so they looked like this:

Quoted message said:

Dave W. said:

I always thought of Hawaii as a sort of paradise on
earth. Even paradises have their down sides, I guess.

I had a friend tell me Hawaii is like a freakin' sauna
bath. That's enough to keep me far away. I suspect people
from areas other than the 13 Western states are not
bothered by this and think Hawaii is a real paradise. Most
Left Coaster's have never experience any kind of real
humidity and consider it a living Hell. I know I do, and so
avoid it like the plague.

I'm a Left Coaster (Orange County) and have found plenty of
humidity, say, all over my car in the morning. We also
vacation in HI from time to time and find it no more humid
than SoCal. I sure wouldn't characterize it as a "sauna."
You want a sauna-type locale, go to Houston in August, a
city in which I lived for 5 years.

You're talking through your hat here, kiddo. And, as you've
already said, you've never been to Hawaii.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret
had been as old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had
been as full as the waitress', it would have been a very
good dinner." Anonymous.

To reply, remove replace "shcox" with "cox"

w_tom said:

I read of so many CD manufacturing techniques that were
suggested for CDs that I never really learned which
methods are actually used on which CDs.

CDs from a factory are etched with a laser while CD-R and
CD-RW use a chemical process. They are far more prone to
corrosion e.g. from salt than replicated CDs are.

--
John Gaughan johngaughan.netjohngaughan.netOpen ↗
[email hidden]

I burn data to CD every weekend. Even with the short life of
CD-Rs, I have plenty of backups and even if I delete files
on purpose I can usually go back and recover them.

--
John Gaughan johngaughan.netjohngaughan.netOpen ↗
[email hidden]

w_tom said:

It is a [censored] power supply sold only to fools.

The power supply, while not great, is not [censored]. I would
not put it in one of my machines, but it does not exactly
suck either.

My main gripe is the wattage. I am running on a 400 watt
supply and plan on upgrading to a 500 watt with a bigger
UPS. The new graphics cards coming out suck a lot of power,
and if I want to play Doom 3 I need to be prepared :-)

Quoted message said:

Sold in America where the technically naive mask as
computer experts
- clone computer assemblers - scam artists.

This is true of a lot of industries in a lot of countries.
There is nothing special about computers. Between my
education and experience I can see through any scam. I have
yet to be scammed, and I go to plenty of trade shows and
other places where those people hang out.

--
John Gaughan johngaughan.netjohngaughan.netOpen ↗
[email hidden]

w_tom said:

Anyone recommending APC solutions is hyping (without
technical knowledge) urban myths.

Someone disagrees with you, so they hype urban myths...
right... grow up.

Quoted message said:

That bottom line also explains why some suffered damage -
such as the damaged portable phone base station.

That was an example. It never happened.

You are trying to sound intelligent while talking
nonsense. Sober up.

--
John Gaughan johngaughan.netjohngaughan.netOpen ↗
[email hidden]

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:36:56 GMT, sf
<[email hidden]> arranged random neurons, so they
looked like this:

Quoted message said:

There are ways to recover your files if you're willing
to shell out the bucks for it.

Most of the time, that's true. My hard drive crash last
year was so severe that, even after I sent it out to a
recovery service and was willing to cough up whatever $$$
it took, couldn't recover a single byte of data. I now
have a second hard drive that I back up faithfully and an
offsite nightly data upload. Suspenders, belt. I never
want to go through that again. Ever.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

Thank goodness the worst happens only rarely! Most people
can recover their data by using a free application, paying
for an application or paying for the service.

I'm sorry it happened to you - I've never had that
experience (thank-you jayzus). Usually, when my computer
appears unable to continue normally - it's time to upgrade
anyway. So, I can transition to a new one with saved face.

FYI: I've taken this computer to the "doctor" a couple of
times and he's performed majic (rebuilding dlls from CAB
files for instance) in front of my eyes - so my money has
been well spent and it cost only very low $$.

If fixing it cost $$$, I'd junk my old computer and happily
order a new one.

Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Nancy Young said:

Quoted message said:

John Gaughan said:

How would a surge fry a cordless phone?

The base station for the phone can certainly be damaged
by a lightning strike or heavy current surge.

It was eerie, when lightning melted my telephone wires
and burned out a bunch of other stuff, my phone rang
really loud and died. Almost like a last gasp. Like,
BANG! (thunder) Flash (lightning) and RING! Had to peel
me off the ceiling.

You need a lightning rod.

Practice safe eating - always use condiments

John Gaughan said:

I don't know what Sheldon was talking about with
three wires.

That "was" the usual configuration, don't know if it still
is because we have plugs now and modern phones.

Now that we have ways to turn off the ringer w/o
disconnecting any wiring, I have no idea what the
configuration is.... because I don't have to play
electrician anymore. <G>

Practice safe eating - always use condiments