Bikesdirect.com

Doctor Morbius said:

Wayfast,

Trust me, I know it's upsetting to see things changing into what they are but it's just the way business is done today. Hell, my whole career has turned to scheiße and right now some towel headed [censored] named Tarbosh or Sanjay or some such [censored] is doing my old job in Bangalore for about 1/5th of what I was paid. I can't compete with that. Does my former employer give a rat's [censored]? Nope. All they saw were dollar signs. Does the government care? Nope. In fact they actually encourage it, thanks in part to Allan Greedspan and the like. They've all somehow blindly looked past all of the undesirable social consequences such as increased alcoholism, increased domestic violence, higher divorce rates, higher crime rates, yadda yadda in favor of saving a few bucks.

What you are describing has already happened or is going to happen to nearly everybody in the United States. And if it doesn't happen to them directly, it will happen indirectly through family members or increased competition in the labor market. Unless we're all willing to have another French Revolution it isn't going to change and will probably get much worse until we have 2 distince classes of income - the very wealthy and the very poor. At least Nashbar is still within the United States.

By the way, what's up with the gummy bear stuff?

At the very end of Ferris buehler during the creditts there is that wierd littlegirl that offer ed rooney a gummy bear from her pocket, that is my favorite movie, and I saw the quote on yourposts

wayfastwhitey said:

At the very end of Ferris buehler during the creditts there is that wierd littlegirl that offer ed rooney a gummy bear from her pocket, that is my favorite movie, and I saw the quote on yourposts

man I need spell check!

Doctor Morbius said:

Wayfast,

.... Hell, my whole career has turned to scheiße and right now some towel headed [censored] named Tarbosh or Sanjay or some such [censored] is doing my old job in Bangalore for about 1/5th of what I was paid. I can't compete with that. Does my former employer give a rat's [censored]? Nope. .....

I know you are sad and angry, but there is no need for this kind of racism.
We have a lot of politicians who promised us that the GATT, WTO, etc. will bring prosperity to all. Were you following the arguments then and did you vote for these people? Sometimes we reap what we sow.

Joe

Doctor Morbius said:

Trust me, I know it's upsetting to see things changing into what they are but it's just the way business is done today. Hell, my whole career has turned to scheiße and right now some towel headed [censored] named Tarbosh or Sanjay or some such [censored] is doing my old job in Bangalore for about 1/5th of what I was paid.

Ease up, there's no call for that.
A lot of us are in the same boat. I even got to spend a month in Bangalore training in the people who would replace me, and guess what? They're just ordinary people like you and me looking to make a living.

wayfastwhitey said:

The high end stuff costs more to keep in stock, people like you (not trying to point the finger, just an example) are looking for us to have full size runs of the higher end bikes you want to try out so you can try one that fits. But now if you, and everyone els leave and go get it cheaper, what do we do with our big inventory?

You can't get the high end stuff on line. Not new at least. I don't consider the [censored] at bikesdirect (even if it has DA) to be high end.

The best thing you can do is pool your power together as small business owners and keep pressure on the manufacturers to not allow their bikes to be bought on line.

If people come in with their own parts for you to install, tack a fee on the installation labor cost, Hell yeah. Like you said, the local car shop wouldn't allow you to do that at all.

I will admit that I am a price [censored]. If I find a jersey at Performance.com, I will buy it. However, to me, trying on shoes at a LBS and then buying it online is not ethical.

I agree with Dr Morbious too, You need to change with the times to stay ahead of the game in any industry. Focus your business on aspects that on-line dealers can't deliver such as service, (good) bike sales, and repairs. Offer hands on classes showing how to repair bikes at a fee.

I will continue to support my LBSs, but the commodity items such as tubes, tires, and clothing will mostly be bought on-line.

Personnaly I dont think there is anything wrong with trying to find the best deal, although I spent a little more on my ride from the LBS because they were so helpful. As a small business owner when you buy products from the manufacturers or wholesalers do you not look for the best rates in order to make the most profit? That seems like the logical thing to do.

I used to race for an LBS team, helped out in the store sometimes and they gave me a great deal on my current bike, but I want to upgrade and I can't afford the pricing (I live in a different state now). Unfortunately this is a reality of life. Going to the LBS and trying stuff to make sure of fit sucks if you work there, but it's no different then any other retail field, it happens with everything, watches, jewelry, cars, clothes, other sporting equipment. It's a part of life in the internet age. Oh and I have seen plenty of high end gear from these web shops.

Hey, I understand wanting to look for the best deal, and everybody is free to do that, I also unserstand th "reality" of the retail world and the impact of the internet. I was just sharing my view that I view cycling as a lifestyle, and something that brings my friends and family together which is why we try to promote cycling on all levels to all people at our shop. I just believe it is reasonable to hope that people realize our contributions that go way beyond hitting certain price points and provide support for us just like we provide support for them. Maybe I am too idealistic, but I don't care, I used to have a non-cycling co owner that believed in profit margins and not cycling he brought in left overs and k-mart bikes, didn't want to participate in any community events and killed the reputation of our shop. Being in the rebuilding phase, I guess I just hope that we can re-connect with the community and get people excited about bikes again.

Don't get me wrong the LBS is very important to the cycling community, I just think it is worthless to get all fired up about people using online stores.

wayfastwhitey said:

Hey, I understand wanting to look for the best deal, and everybody is free to do that, I also unserstand th "reality" of the retail world and the impact of the internet. I was just sharing my view that I view cycling as a lifestyle, and something that brings my friends and family together which is why we try to promote cycling on all levels to all people at our shop. I just believe it is reasonable to hope that people realize our contributions that go way beyond hitting certain price points and provide support for us just like we provide support for them. Maybe I am too idealistic, but I don't care, I used to have a non-cycling co owner that believed in profit margins and not cycling he brought in left overs and k-mart bikes, didn't want to participate in any community events and killed the reputation of our shop. Being in the rebuilding phase, I guess I just hope that we can re-connect with the community and get people excited about bikes again.

I feel for ya there WFW...I am not in the bike business, only a customer. Having said that, there are 3 LBSs within 5 miles of my house and I looked around a bit before puchasing my bike from a shop 30 miles away in Philadelphia, I had been browsing for a new roadie for about 4 months, and had been spending some time in Philly, frequenting this guys shop, asking a bunch of questions and so forth. This shop's mgr and his staff answered all of my questions and let me test ride a few bikes, even though they KNEW it would be a few months before I was ready to make my purchase. When it came time to finally buy the bike I made the 45 minute trip by train (I don't drive) to the shop in Philly to purchase my bike. I had walked in looking to purchase a 2005 Leomnd Reno, but I walked out with a 2004 NOS Lemond Tourmalet for $850 on closeout (the '05 Reno was $829). The price was nice but the reason I got the bike from them was their willingness to deal with me BEFORE I made the purchase. It will be a bit inconvenient for me to go there for accessories and so forth so that is what I will use my LBS for as well as service beyond my warranty. I think there are ways to strike a nice balance as well.

Cheers,

Brian

Tonto said:

Ease up, there's no call for that.
A lot of us are in the same boat. I even got to spend a month in Bangalore training in the people who would replace me, and guess what? They're just ordinary people like you and me looking to make a living.

Let me get this straight ... you actually went overseas to train the people that would replace you? Then you're a fool.

baj32161 said:

I had walked in looking to purchase a 2005 Leomnd Reno, but I walked out with a 2004 NOS Lemond Tourmalet for $850 on closeout (the '05 Reno was $829).

That is a sweet looking bike for only $850 and with 105 to boot. I was eying a Lemond Zurich myself for a while.

May I recommend for your first upgrade - get some clipless road pedals. Look has some for about $75. You will be amazed how much it will improve your performance.

Doctor Morbius said:

Let me get this straight ... you actually went overseas to train the people that would replace you? Then you're a fool.

He's not a fool, he's pragmatic. He said, right in his post, that he realized his Indian replacements are the same as he; people trying to make a living.

Also, it's at least worth considering things from a company's point of view. Say you own a business, and are consistently losing money due to high labor costs, Union pay, higher taxes, etc. Would you rather, as a businessman, go broke and close your business, thereby putting all your employees out of work, or outsource most of the labor to India, thereby keeping at least a small portion of your domestic workforce on the job, while also keeping your business afloat?

Bear in mind, I'm not making excuses for big corporations, nor am I saying it's as clear-cut as that in any case. But it's worth considering in any case.

Oh, and for what it's worth, lest someone think I'm speaking from a position of no authority, I lost my last job to foreign labor. It sucked to have that happen, but I can understand the reasons for it, and I'm not bitter or upset.

-Matt

Doctor Morbius said:

Let me get this straight ... you actually went overseas to train the people that would replace you? Then you're a fool.

Yes, they replaced me in doing my old job. Now they do the boring coding and I do the architecting.....nice deal huh? Not to mention that I had one of the greatest experiences of my life spending 5 weeks in a wonderful country.

You call me a fool, yet you admit that you were replaced in your work by a '[censored]' (your words)....doesn't say much about your abilities. Keep it up lad 😄

jitteringjr said:

That is a sweet looking bike for only $850 and with 105 to boot. I was eying a Lemond Zurich myself for a while.

May I recommend for your first upgrade - get some clipless road pedals. Look has some for about $75. You will be amazed how much it will improve your performance.

I already have them (but not the ones you mentioned). They will be installed when I go in for my tuneup.

Brian

baj32161 said:

I already have them (but not the ones you mentioned). They will be installed when I go in for my tuneup.

Brian

Thats good. What kind did you go with?

jitteringjr said:

Thats good. What kind did you go with?

Vuelta Typhoons

That is the same bike I just picked up, I got it for $810, great deal, great bike!

.

kvl1027 said:

That is the same bike I just picked up, I got it for $810, great deal, great bike!

.

Yes it is and I absolutely love it...now the current WEATHER on the other hand...nevermind! (@#$!&$!!)😄

wayfastwhitey said:

Thank you for suggesting people go waste bike shop's time fitting them up with a bike properly so they can go order it on the internet. No LBS can compete with mail order warehouse prices very well. We have greater overhead, deal in less volume, so good prices aren't available to us, and we have to staff the place with people that know what they're doing, so we can fit these people with bikes. We give away too much everyday, we get used and abused by non customers. They want to come in, try on our bikes and clothes and shoes ( ie. overhead) and then go get it elsewhere. But they shamelessly show up for our group rides on their mail oreder bikes and mail order clothes and they take advantage of our rides, our free waterbottles, free drinks, hanging out and drinking our good coffee, wanting "deals" on service because they are our "riding buddies" Good bike shops are dropping like flies. Everyone wants us to have the sharpest mechanics, the latest and coolest bikes and gear in stock so they can touch it and try it great facilities, and big contributions to the sport. But they don't want to pay for it. While they want all of these things, they want a bargain even more. So when there is nobody but Nashbar and Bikes Direct left, where are all these losers gonna try on their shoes?

Hmmm, this is quite the thread. First, I will state that I like to support my LBS (i.e. I am always willing to pay a little more as long as they are not raking me over the coals) and they are good people. One thing I have not seen anyone else mention here ....... At my LBS (of choice), when they do a fitting (they do Serotta fittings) they charge $75 for it. So, it's a money maker for the LBS. If you buy a bike in conjunction with the fitting, they discount the cost of the fitting off the sale. So, my point is, if you are not charging for fittings and then [censored] about people buying elsewhere after giving them the fitting, whose fault is that? Charge for the fitting and, if the customer buys a bike, then give it back to them. If they go elsewhere you can still be friends and not feel like the customer screwed you ('cause you have the $75). If you are a customer and wants to make sure you are "really" getting the fitting cost back, just pick a bike and get a final price and then get the fitting. And, then demand the cost of the fitting be knocked off the final price. If you are worried about customers taking advantage of you, then just charge the tightwads MSRP (and no less) and save the discounts for the regular customers. If the rider buys his bike elsewhere and then comes in for a cleat fitting then charge him for it and politely inform them that fittings for the bikes and shoes/cleats are free - if they buy from you. Yup, it's a changing world and the people that are successful are the ones that are adjusting to it (rather than just [censored] about it). It was during one fitting that I decided to NOT buy mail order and to buy from the LBS, because the person doing the fitting was very professional and, in a smart way, made me realize that I could never get the level of service and support that I could from them from a nameless face a thousand miles away. I do all of my own maintenance on my bikes today but when I walk in that shop I never pay the price on the tags. They take good care of me, because they know I will be back again and again. Good customers and good business are cultivated.