Bikes Running Red Lights

"troyq" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to be school kids pressing the
button while walking by with no intention of crossing the road.

I would roll through it. Depends if there were cars stopped there also. I always stop if there are
cars around but if not and the intersection is clear (easier for cyclists to tell this than cars) I
would roll on through. I generally try and set a good example on the bike because if something
happens, I was following the law and it will be the other person's fault (hopefully). e.g. I can
ride all the way to work without lights just fine, but I will use them to 1) stop drivers having a
sook because I'm not using lights and 2) if there is an accident, the other party will not be able
to get out of paying for it by claiming I was breaking the law.

If the streets are deserted then I'll go through. At a reduced bike speed there's never been
anything I didn't see before entering an intersection. I think the only time I will go through red,
while cars or people are present would be in a bunch. That's always tricky - half the people want to
stop for the light the other half will go through - I've experience a couple of interesting bunch
splits with this confusion.

I'm also guilty of riding on footpaths. Hell, I've even ridden a bike without a helmet! Oooh!

Before I started regular commuting I would break many more rules though so at least I'm
improving :-P

I don't think what we do really makes a difference to drivers though. They break the law too and get
just as annoyed with other drivers breaking the law.

What about speed limits on a bike? Who here sees a 60kph sign on a nice long downhill and actually
slows to 60? I bet a lot of the people replying to this thread claiming they never break any law
have exceeded the limit in a
40/40/60 kph zone.

Does everyone here indicate, EVERY time? What about if taking your hand off the bars would
negatively effect your balance/steering ability and jeopardise your safety?

Actually, has everyone here read EVERY road rule that applies to bicycles? I don't even know where
to find 'em and frankly I'm more interested in staying alive than reading up on road laws.

Oh, another one.. what about drafting vehicles? Anyone sat on a truck for more than 200m? (or
something like that - like I said I don't read the law books). I've seen something about 'drafting
is naughty' before...

Hmm.. that was a bit of a rant.. sorry, bad day.

hippy who is still alive after ~15 years riding on the road and is sure he obeys more rules than a
lot of people - many Beach Rd riders for example!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by troyq
I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as pedestrian crossings...

Crikey! Considering how many cyclists I see running red lights, there's a lot of saintly people on this group! (Having said that, there's a lot of bikers out there who aren't excited enough about biking to jump on usenet and talk about it...)
I only say this because it [censored] me so much when people run red lights.

As for me, I wait at pedestrian and intersectional traffic lights alike. I'll usually press the pedestrian button if I want it to change (which is still illegal to mount the footpath!)

"Liz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car

drivers

Quoted message said:

anyway. I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing

on a

Quoted message said:

moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green

man to

Quoted message said:

appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping,

then

Quoted message said:

started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its

horn,

Quoted message said:

swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the intersection. Gave me quite
a fright.

Join the club.. I see drivers go through red lights almost every cycle change at the intersection
near work. Myself and my workmates have occasionaly been in front of these d&*k heads as they speed
through. Quite different to rolling through an empty ped crossing at 5kph.

hippy

Dont top post Liz...

: Specially when it's a 4WD that's just stopped to deliver a child at
school,
: and is turning into a major road.

Funny you should say that. I was driving the other day through school hours and had a mother in her
4wd bohemoth tail gating me for about 10k's as I was keep the limit at 60. The speed dropped to 40
for the school zone and the road went to two lanes. She proceeded to floor the car up to about 70.
She had her truck full of kids and was racing to drop them to school. She pulled up straight in
front of the school.

Andrew Swan <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to ask, do you run
red lights:

[snip]

You're unlikely to find anyone here on usenet to admit they run through red lights. Much more likely
to find that everyone is an angel and frowns on other people's transgressions. Since most usenet
posters can also ride faster than the transgressors, we can politely tell them their behaviour
diminishes our road user's rights in the eyes of motorists.

Of course, we know what we _ought_ to do, but the commuters that ride in through Pyrmont in Sydney
almost exclusively blow through the lights wherever possible. Not me tho', honest guv.

Careful though - it's hard to get sympathy from the nurses when they find out what you did
to get hit.

Ritch.

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andrew Swan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to ask, do you run red
lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching

<blah>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is actually legal, as the in-road
sensors can't always [never?] detect bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

Never ever ever.

(1) I want all other road users to respect me as a rightful user of the road, and to do so, it's
important that I follow the rules that they need

to

Quoted message said:

abide by.

(2) I'm kinda lucky to be here today after being hit (in a car) by a drunk running a red light
late one night. Came through a crossroads

(Melbournians:

Quoted message said:

corner of Springfield Rd and Blackburn Rd) and hit the front right guard

of

Quoted message said:

my car, spinning me around a few times while he speared off into a power pole. A few feet further
and it would have been the driver's door that he hit, not the guard. I was very lucky to walk away
with a few cracked ribs and a thumping headache.

(3) Accidents happen at intersections, not when you're idling along some country lane "Famous
Five" style. Life is precious, people. We gotta take care out there.

So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of lights around here that don't
detect bikes.

Quoted message said:

So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of lights

around

Quoted message said:

here that don't detect bikes.

Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of

lights

Quoted message said:

around here that don't detect bikes.

Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the light have already changed?
Surely the light's default mode isn't "red" - someone must've activated the crossing for it to
change - so it will change back, right? Or if it's an intersection, they cycle through so both
directions get a run - don't they? If the traffic is _that_ infrequent that you have to go over to a
ped crossing and hit the button - surely you could safely go through?

hippy

"Andrew Swan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to ask, do you run
red lights:

I have never run a red light in or on any vehicle, I can't bring myself to do it.

Andy Simpson said:

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of lights around here that don't
detect bikes.

Have you written to or contacted the authority that looks after the lights? Here in Vic, if Vicroads
gets a complaints, they will call out the techs to adjust the sensitivity of the detector.

Al

When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a cyclist go sailing through
a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and IMHO, equal rights to the
roads, INCLUDES following the documented road rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...

"Andrew Swan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to ask, do you run
red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through (might be a special case of (g)
or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is actually legal, as the in-road
sensors can't always [never?] detect bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

<soapbox> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red was yourself, I'd
say do what you like - it's your money/health if you get fined/injured. However, it's not just
about you. Like it or not, 80% of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve)
will show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the regard that we (as a
body) show for the road rules. You can't expect motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane
to yourself) if you flout your obligations on the road. </soapbox>

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel strongly about. Surely the
inconvenience of stopping at a few lights (and let's face it, there's usually no good
reason why you can't, if you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of the law, but the
reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the
goodwill we can generate, because if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds
on the forest floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

"Andrew Morris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a cyclist go sailing
through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and IMHO, equal rights to the
roads, INCLUDES following the documented road rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...

On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, pissing off drivers by holding up whole
major intersections during peak hour is perhaps not the most effective way of doing it.

Tim

Tim Jones said:

Quoted message said:

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and IMHO, equal rights to the
roads, INCLUDES following the documented road rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...

Quoted message said:

On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, pissing off drivers by holding up
whole major intersections during peak hour is perhaps not the most effective way of doing it.

Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time and gaining some confidence in
on-road riding? CM is great for that..

Cyclists have just as much right to be on the roads at 6pm as anyone else does.. Any other day at
6pm you'd see mostly cars engaging in their own weird rituals (Homer Simpson described one such
ritual quite well as: gas brake honk, gas brake honk, honk honk punch, gas gas gas, but there are
hundreds more) and that's not that different.. The number of queued cars blocking intersections
citywide at any given point of a CM ride is probably greater than the number of CM riders anyway..

PC

"PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim Jones said:

Quoted message said:

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and IMHO, equal rights to
the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road rules, of which one is stopping at a red
light...

Quoted message said:

On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, pissing off drivers by holding up
whole major intersections during peak hour is

perhaps

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not the most effective way of doing it.

Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time and gaining some confidence
in on-road riding? CM is great for that..

Not a good way of inducing motorists to look favourably upon cyclists.

What I was talking about specifically was that I have no issue with the ride, even taking up several
lanes for a few hundred cyclists to go around the city. The ride I went on however culminated in
stopping in the middle of a busy intersection, whooping, someone holding their bicycle over their
head and not moving on.

It was after they stayed still in the middle of the intersection for a few minutes saying some
speaches that I could not hear from the back that I decided to move on before it got ugly.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists have just as much right to be on the roads at 6pm as anyone else does..

Completely agree, and as most people have said in this thread, they look at traffic violations as
something which tars all cyclists.

Quoted message said:

Any other day at 6pm you'd see mostly cars engaging in their own weird rituals (Homer Simpson
described one such ritual quite well as: gas brake honk, gas brake honk, honk honk punch, gas gas
gas, but there are hundreds more) and that's not that different. The number of queued cars
blocking intersections citywide at any given point of a CM ride is probably greater than the
number of CM riders anyway..

That may well be, and if the ride is meant to celebrate cyclists enjoyment of the roads that is
fine and it serves its purpose. If it is however there to promote equal road use for cyclists, it
is just pissing off the motorists. It is not making them see your point, they will just sit in
their car fuming.

It will promote equal road use to the cyclists, but this is just preaching to the converted.

Tim

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Probably got his license out of the most convenient Kellogg's package... = ;-) "Ray Peace"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message = "]news:[email hidden]... Greetings,=20 That's
nothing, my favourite red light moron was a = couple of years ago less than 2 km from here. I was
stopping behind two = lanes of cars for a red pedestrian light. The idiot on my right locked = up
all four wheels and slid to a halt less than two metres from the car = in front. He then executed a
left turn in front of me and went through = the red light on the footpath (!) Where did this
[censored] get his = licence in the first place ?=20 Regards,=20 Ray.=20

Liz wrote:

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car = driversanyway.I went for a walk
the other day and came to a pedestrian = only crossing on amoderately busy road. Pushed the button,
waited for = the little green man toappear, checked to see that the approaching car = really was
stopping, thenstarted to cross. Then another car came up from = behind, beeped its horn,swerved past
the stopped car and continued full = speed through theintersection. Gave me quite a fright."troyq" =
<[email hidden]> wrote in = messagenews:[email hidden]...Andrew Swan
wrote: > = Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts meto =

Quoted message said:

ask, do you run red lights: > <snip> > &rooI know a "red light" is a =

"red light" but im interested to know ifpeople treat red lights = differently in different
circumstances, such aspedestrian = crossings...Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was
cruising = down ahill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side = andsure enough
the pedestrian lights go red just before i get = there.Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians...
however it turns out = tobe school kids pressing the button while walking by with no = intentionof
crossing the road.Of course I stopped, for all the reasons = everyone else has mentionedabove... but
I was very tempted to continue, = and spray a word or severalin their direction.So back to my point,
a red = light is a red light but does everyone alwaysstop (and remain stopped) = at pedestrian
lights? ----------------------------<Posted via = cyclingforums.comhttp://www.cyclingforums.com

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML
6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Probably got his license out of the = most convenient=20 Kellogg's
package... ;-)</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DV>"Ray Peace" <<A=20 href=3D""][email hidden]">[email hidden]</A>> wrote =
in message=20 <A=20
=
href=3D""]news:[email hidden]">="]news:[email hidden]=
u</A>...</DIV>Greetings,=20 <BR> =20
That's nothing, my favourite red light moron was a = couple=20 of years ago less
than 2 km from here. I was stopping behind two lanes = of cars=20 for a red pedestrian light. The
idiot on my right locked up all four = wheels=20 and slid to a halt less than two metres from the
car in front. He then =

executed a left turn in front of me and went through the red light on = the=20 footpath (!) Where
did this [censored] get his licence in the first = place ?=20 <BR>Regards, <BR>
= =20 Ray. <BR><BR>Liz wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE = cite=3Dmid:[email hidden]=20 type=3D"cite"><PRE
wrap=3D"">Does everyone always stop at pedestrian = lights? NO! Well not car
drivers<BR>anyway.<BR>I went for a walk the = other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on
a<BR>moderately busy = road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man to<BR>appear, =
checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, = then<BR>started to cross. Then
another car came up from behind, beeped = its horn,<BR>swerved past the stopped car and continued
full speed = through the<BR>intersection. Gave me quite a fright.<BR><BR>"troyq" <A =
class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D""][email hidden]"><usenet-forum@cyclingfo= rums.com></A> wrote
in message<BR><A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D""]news:[email hidden]">="]news:[email hidden]=
.net.au</A>...<BR></PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Andrew Swan wrote:<BR> = >
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts = me<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE
wrap=3D""><!---->to<BR></PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D""> > ask, do you run red =
lights:<BR> > <snip><BR> > &roo<BR><BR><BR><BR>I know = a "red light" is a "red
light" but im interested to know if<BR>people = treat red lights differently in different
circumstances, such = as<BR>pedestrian crossings...<BR><BR>Case in point, this morning on my = way
to work I was cruising down a<BR>hill about to begin the few hundred = metre climb up the other
side and<BR>sure enough the pedestrian lights = go red just before i get there.<BR>Normally, no
problem, wait for = pedestrians... however it turns out to<BR>be school kids pressing the = button
while walking by with no intention<BR>of crossing the = road.<BR><BR>Of course I stopped, for all
the reasons everyone else has = mentioned<BR>above... but I was very tempted to continue, and
spray a = word or several<BR>in their direction.<BR><BR>So back to my point, a red = light is a
red light but does everyone always<BR>stop (and remain = stopped) at pedestrian
lights?<BR><BR><BR><BR> --<BR></PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE =
wrap=3D"">--------------------------<<BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE = wrap=3D"">Posted via
cyclingforums.com<BR><A = class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D"cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗">cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗</A><BR=

Quoted message said:

</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE =

wrap=3D""><!----><BR><BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

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Tim Jones said:

Quoted message said:

Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time and gaining some confidence
in on-road riding? CM is great for that..

Quoted message said:

Not a good way of inducing motorists to look favourably upon cyclists.

Since when was that the goal? It's there to encourage onlookers to become cyclists, not to encourage
motorists to remain motorists but become nice motorists.. As it's quite simply impossible to make
motorists less arrogant (towards each other, let alone toward cyclists), any attempt to play nice
would only be met by their usual attitide.. Better ot ignore them altogehter..

Quoted message said:

What I was talking about specifically was that I have no issue with the ride, even taking up
several lanes for a few hundred cyclists to go around the city. The ride I went on however
culminated in stopping in the middle of a busy intersection, whooping, someone holding their
bicycle over their head and not moving on.

Quite normal.. And how many times have you seen cars block intersections for several minutes while,
say, honking their horns?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The number of queued cars blocking intersections citywide at any given point of a CM ride is
probably greater than the number of CM riders anyway..

Quoted message said:

That may well be, and if the ride is meant to celebrate cyclists enjoyment of the roads that is
fine and it serves its purpose. If it is however there to promote equal road use for cyclists,

Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?

Actually, it's about a lot of things, everybody has their own reasons for attending, but the bulk of
the people that I know there do it for the "having a good time in a big city" factor..

Quoted message said:

it is just pissing off the motorists. It is not making them see your point, they will just sit in
their car fuming.

They'd be doing that anyway..

Quoted message said:

It will promote equal road use to the cyclists, but this is just preaching to the converted.

There are also bystanders, who could well be public transport users who might realise that bikes are
faster than trams, or car passengers/car poolers who might think about cycling instead of mooching
more rides or buying a car..

Meanwhile, once someone owns a car, it's almost impossible to coax them out of it, as most of the
costs have to be paid for (repayments, rego, insurance etc) whether the car is used or sits in
the garage..

PC

"PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?

In response to Andrew Morris:

"...Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights..."

Tim

Andrew Morris said:

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a cyclist go sailing
through a red light just because they can...

sometime it just looks that way - 6 lanes + median strip, green light from the side street. The
green is so short that it looks like I'm running a red at the end.

AndreS.au ===> I ride therefore I am

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the morning on my way to work
at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll through them. I should be careful though as I have
previously encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow down just to make sure I
don't hit the red light runners coming through, here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red
lights for both directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those handy bicyle crossing
buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I could use it in the mornings but usually I just
wait for a clear patch then scoot across to avoid pissing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat, skinny blokes don't have to
worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks ago I gave the finger to
some [censored] on a motorbike who tooted me one afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away)
one afternoon. Said [censored] was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as I'd pass him whenever he had
to pick up a passenger then slip back in after he passed me. All of the people in the back were
laughing and cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like a holden rodeo
ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me in I also give a wave or a
thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I happen to break the road
rules so be it.
--
Cheers Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote, plug for own business in caps and large,
bad ASCII art.

Quoted message said:

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks ago I gave the finger to
some [censored] on a motorbike who tooted me one afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m
away) one afternoon. Said [censored] was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

Hehhe, how did he know who you were?

If someones hooting me, im in th habit of giving them a thumbs up 🙂 It works on so many levels 😉

1. THey are a police guy-- i dunno wtf they'll think
2. they are honking angrily- they'll take it as me mocking them
3. they are honking in a friendly manner- they will take it like a real thumbs up 🙂

Quoted message said:

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as I'd pass him whenever he had
to pick up a passenger then slip back in after he passed me. All of the people in the back were
laughing and cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like a holden
rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me in I also give a wave or a
thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I happen to break the road rules
so be it.