Bicycle trailers:

Curtis L. Russell said:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:37:07 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

So Fabrizio will have a heart attack if you ride faster than him.

Not if: when.

No, 'if' is correct for me, unless I'm guaranteed a good downhill.
--
Rick "aerobelly" Onanian

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:02:53 GMT, [email hidden] (The Queen

of Cans and Jars) said:

Rick Onanian said:

So Fabrizio will have a heart attack if you ride faster than him.

fabrizio? that's the guy from the "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!"
commercials, right?

Hmmm...you know, you may be onto something there.
--
Rick Onanian

"Ron Hardin" wrote: There's no harm in a high cg; it makes you more
stable, if anything. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am picturing you with road gearing, climbing a hill, out of the saddle,
and angling the bike from side to side as you pedal. That crateful of
baggage is moving back and forth--doesn't that make riding harder? I'm not
saying it does; I have never tried it, but it sure seems like it would.

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Ron Hardin <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your desires.
>
>An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight on the bike
>isn't bad, but the combination of wind resistance from the trailer
>and from the weight it carries tips the impression over the top that
>you're really being slowed down.
>
>So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear luggage rack
>and do it that way. (I recommend a conventional rack with legs
>PLUS the core innards of a seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized
>as firmly to the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the
>former bears the weight.)
>
why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack instead of pannier
bags?

To make it more theft resistant.

hee!

I rode for a about a year n a half with a milk crate zipp tied to my
rack. Visually ugly. Practically? The best!

I took it off because I had a style attitude, wanted to look more
"normal" (word of advice: "get a car"😉
There's some history. Bottom line today? The previous advice is good
and reasonable. A milk crate is a good thing.
The real bottom line is, if you like riding a bike , get a bike and ride
it.
Cheers!!! Bernie

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i don't ride in the rain.

!!

Why not?

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Leo Lichtman said:

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote: (clip) rainproof panniers I made from cat litter
buckets and a few dollars of hardware.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now I'm going to bring this discussion full circle. I think those panniers
are really neat, but it looks like they would add as much wind resistance as
a trailer.

That's my rain bike and when carrying cargo in the rain, or just when
carrying cargo period, wind resistance isn't high on my list of
concerns. But take into account tailbox effect and it may actually
reduce drag. It would take coast down tests to determine.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"A bicycle does get you there and more And there is always the thin edge
of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive. Dogs become
dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become personal. And
getting there is all the fun."
Bill Emerson

Claire Petersky said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i don't ride in the rain.

!!

Why not?

because i don't have to any more.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Ron Hardin" wrote: There's no harm in a high cg; it makes you more
stable, if anything. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am picturing you with road gearing, climbing a hill, out of the saddle,
and angling the bike from side to side as you pedal. That crateful of
baggage is moving back and forth--doesn't that make riding harder? I'm not
saying it does; I have never tried it, but it sure seems like it would.

Indeed. As someone who has carried a lot of heavy cargo by bike, I know
keeping it low is very important. I've done the milk crate on top of the
rack thing, that's how I know hanging them from the sides of the rack
works better. But even small changes in center of gravity can be felt.
I've recently been carrying a lot of wood pallets home for a garden
project via a one wheel BOB trailer. If you look at a pallet, you see
that it has a light side with usually 3 slats and a heavy side with 8 to
12 slats. Carrying it heavy side down causes noticeably better handling
even though it's only a difference of four inches.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"A bicycle does get you there and more And there is always the thin edge
of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive. Dogs become
dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become personal. And
getting there is all the fun."
Bill Emerson

Leo Lichtman said:

"Ron Hardin" wrote: There's no harm in a high cg; it makes you more
stable, if anything. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am picturing you with road gearing, climbing a hill, out of the saddle...

Sounds like you're not picturing Ron Hardin!

For many years, Ron has given us fond descriptions of his Huffy, and his
sneak-along-the-sidewalk riding style. Seriously. This will help you
understand the milk crate.

Not that there's anything wrong with a milk crate, of course!

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Quoted message said:

The idea of a trailer has been going through my mind
and am wondering what sort, as in single rear wheel,
or twin wheeled type.

I have one of each, a Bykaboose and a BOB. The single-wheel BOB is
lighter, sturdier, tracks better, seems to have less drag, and is more
stable; the two-wheel Bykaboose is cheaper, holds more, and it folds
flat. Both provide two advantages over racks and panniers [of which I
have plenty]: you can carry more, and the bike is more stable carrying
the load. Racks and panniers are lighter in weight, though, and cheaper;
anyone who do not need to carry a lot of weight and volume of cargo may
be better off with them than with a trailer.

--
Robots don't kill people -- people kill people.
http://www.irobotmovie.com/

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

....

Quoted message said:

The problem is that a milk crate on top of your rack puts your center of
gravity kind of high. Hang a milk crate off of each side of the rack
doubles the cargo space and keep the center of gravity low. Makes the
bike kind of wide though. Or you can use plastic buckets to make
panniers. See http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove/9Nov2002-04.JPG for some
rainproof panniers I made from cat litter buckets and a few dollars of
hardware.

That looks like a pretty good setup; do you have some kind of quick
release so you can take off the buckets and carry them around by the
handle?

.....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

Lorenzo L. Love said:

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

hey, the grid! do you live on the central coast, Lorenzo?

Leo Lichtman said:

Can anyone comment on the effect on handling of the high center of gravity
of a rack-mounted crate vs. the lower center of panniers? Seems to me the
panniers would be less leable to "wag the bike."

My experience has been that a back pack (loaded) feels like it's less
stable than when i used my panniers. Also if the panniers aren't
secure they as likely to 'wag the bike'. Though the trailer changes
the bike's handling I prefer the trailer as I find it easier to load
and go. But if given the choice between the panniers, crate or
backpack. I'd go with the panniers as they are much more stable. I
don't know how anyone can say that a higher CG is more stable.

--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry [email hidden]
http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

The problem is that a milk crate on top of your rack puts your center of
gravity kind of high. Hang a milk crate off of each side of the rack
doubles the cargo space and keep the center of gravity low. Makes the
bike kind of wide though. Or you can use plastic buckets to make
panniers. See http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove/9Nov2002-04.JPG for some
rainproof panniers I made from cat litter buckets and a few dollars of
hardware.

That looks like a pretty good setup; do you have some kind of quick
release so you can take off the buckets and carry them around by the
handle?

....

It hooks on to the rack like any other pannier. See
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove/cargo1.jpg and
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove/9Nov2002-07.JPG
Aluminum flat stock is attached with double stick tape on the inside and
out and the hooks bolted to that, otherwise the plastic wouldn't stand
up to the strain. The little cleat at the bottom is used with a
mini-bungee cord to hold the bottom down to the chainstays. You can get
the hooks and the other parts at any hardware store. It was maybe $8 for
all the stuff to make a pair of panniers. I used Tidy Cat brand cat
litter buckets which are rectangular and have an attached hinged lid,
but standard square four gallon buckets with separate lids will work
fine too. It's easy and cheap to make your own, but Cobbworks makes
bucket panniers ready to go. See http://www.cobbworks.com/ Costs about 6
or 7 times as much as making your own.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The more I think about our US domestic transportation problems... the
more I see an increased role for the bicycle in American life. I am
convinced after riding bikes here in China, that it is a sensible,
economical and clean form of transportation that makes enormous good sense."
George H. W. Bush, as US ambassador to China

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

Lorenzo L. Love said:

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

hey, the grid! do you live on the central coast, Lorenzo?

Yreka, CA, but TheGrid hasn't existed for years. It was an excellent ISP
which got bought out by One Main which was pretty good, and then OneMain
got bought out by EarthLink which really sucks as an ISP. Now an
thegrid.net address is just an alias for an earthlink.com address.
Earthlink has swallowed up scores of previously fine local ISPs.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
Bill Gates 1981

Lorenzo L. Love said:

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

Lorenzo L. Love said:

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

hey, the grid! do you live on the central coast, Lorenzo?

Yreka, CA, but TheGrid hasn't existed for years. It was an excellent ISP
which got bought out by One Main which was pretty good, and then OneMain
got bought out by EarthLink which really sucks as an ISP. Now an
thegrid.net address is just an alias for an earthlink.com address.
Earthlink has swallowed up scores of previously fine local ISPs.

yes, i know the history ... i still have an "@thegrid.net" email address
🙂 for some reason i thought it had been fairly local; i didn't realize
they were all the way up in Yreka.

"Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote: (clip) i think that it's

aesthetically

Quoted message said:

and functionally inferior (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^
Can anyone comment on the effect on handling of the high center of gravity
of a rack-mounted crate vs. the lower center of panniers? Seems to me the
panniers would be less leable to "wag the bike."

I never did any controlled tests, but:
1. If you hang stuff off the crate, which is an easy temptation when you are
bringing home groceries, the stuff will swing, and that can be a control
problem. But that's high weight swinging, not high weight stable. Swinging
weight is bad anywhere. It's less likely you will be tempted to have
swinging weight with panniers, because of their design. (Note Ron Hardin's
instructions clearly emphasize stability.)

2. I'm a big guy (200 lb), and did not have any big handling problems not
related to #1. The most I ever carried on the milk crate was 61 pounds
(crate and backpack together) for about 15 miles. That was a lot. While
commuting, I often ride with one pannier, which doesn't seem to cause me any
balance problems even if there's a bunch of papers in the pannier; maybe I'm
not very sensitive to this sort of thing.

3. In general, simple physics suggest that low weight is easier than high
weight, and that's my subjective opinion as well. But stability doesn't
override everything else, or we'd all be on trikes.

4. There is one remaining problem, and that's getting on and off the bike.
Ordinarily I would swing my leg around the back, but that's hard with the
rack in the way. It made me wish for a mixte frame that would be easier to
step through.

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i don't ride in the rain.

!!

Why not?

because i don't have to any more.

!!

What's wrong with riding in the rain?

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Mike Kruger said:

4. There is one remaining problem, and that's getting on and off the bike.
Ordinarily I would swing my leg around the back, but that's hard with the
rack in the way. It made me wish for a mixte frame that would be easier to
step through.

i'm already in the habit of swinging my leg to the front because i used
to ride a tandem.

but i'm still not putting a milk crate on my rear rack.

Claire Petersky said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

> i don't ride in the rain.

!!

Why not?

because i don't have to any more.

!!

What's wrong with riding in the rain?

nothing at all, if it's what you want to do. i've done it voluntarily
many times. i choose not to do it any longer.