Best track sprinter

ricardo7 said:

Ryan Bayley, hands down. Most comprehensive annihilation in olympic (any sport) history.

So tell me how you justify this?
The poll was for best track sprinter since the 80's and while Ryan has won 1 Olympics (which took 3 rides in the final hardly an annihalation!) at least two other cyclists have won two.
Bit early to be calling him the best maybe?
By the way Lutz Hesslich didnt lose a single ride on his way to winning in 1988.

Lee

Lee Povey said:

So tell me how you justify this?
The poll was for best track sprinter since the 80's and while Ryan has won 1 Olympics (which took 3 rides in the final hardly an annihalation!) at least two other cyclists have won two.
Bit early to be calling him the best maybe?
By the way Lutz Hesslich didnt lose a single ride on his way to winning in 1988.

Lee

Noob....only 4 posts. 🙂

I agree with that. "He didnt' need to be a Nothstein to prove how fast he is." Nothstien is one of the biggest asses I know. I can't stand him.

Lee Povey said:

So tell me how you justify this?
The poll was for best track sprinter since the 80's and while Ryan has won 1 Olympics (which took 3 rides in the final hardly an annihalation!) at least two other cyclists have won two.
Bit early to be calling him the best maybe?
By the way Lutz Hesslich didnt lose a single ride on his way to winning in 1988.

Lee

did you happen to see the keiren as well??? pretty sure he was finished and having a coke and burger by the time the others had crossed the line !!
on 2 hours sleep after drinking [censored] for 10 hours the night before to celebrate his thumping of Bos.

Saw Bayley beat fiedler and harnett, when he was a 16yr old and they were olympic champs/on top of their game. case closed.

Wondering why Sergei Kopylov didn't make the list? He beat Hesslich for two world championship titles, medaled in a couple of others and won the world championship in the kilo. Overall I think Hesslich was more dominant, but you've got to at least put Kopylov on the list.

mah3 said:

Wondering why Sergei Kopylov didn't make the list? He beat Hesslich for two world championship titles, medaled in a couple of others and won the world championship in the kilo. Overall I think Hesslich was more dominant, but you've got to at least put Kopylov on the list.

As a kid I had a great photo of him hitting the deck on a concrete outdoor track (Colorado?) in a 3-up gallop.....must've been doing 70+kmh.

ed073 said:

Will anyone back me on Stephen Pate?

Is Patey out of jail yet? Shocked the [censored] out of me when I read the newspaper one day.

Miss Meow said:

Is Patey out of jail yet? Shocked the [censored] out of me when I read the newspaper one day.

Dunno.....I reckon he'd be in the crowd in Bendgo this weekend if he was.

Lee Povey said:

This might hot the debate up!

I went through all the worlds and Olympics (just the sprint) since 1979 and awarded points like this;

Worlds 1st=3 points
2nd=2 points
3rd=1 point

Olympics 1st=5 points (figured Olympics must be worth a bit more!)
2nd=3 points
3rd=1 point

The results were;

1st Lutz Hesslich 30 points
2nd Koichi Nakano 24 points
3rd Jens Fiedler 21 points
4th Michael Hubner 17 points
=5th Florian Rousseau 15 points
=5th Laurent Gane 15 points
7th Marty Nothstein 13 points
8th Gary Neiwand 8 points
9th Darryn Hill 7 points
10th Frederic Magne 1 points

I like the Idea but it has one flaw, Nakano never rode an Olympic to my knowledge. He is the only person who needs to be on the list really, rest are also rans....
my 123 is Nakano, Hesslich then Neiwand

I justify Neiwand simply by saying he was so good for so long! I think at his very best he may have been a little behind my forth pick Fiedler, but he gets the nod on longevity in a sport that isnt kind on age. (which illustraites my choice of Nakano even more)

Fixey said:

I like the Idea but it has one flaw, Nakano never rode an Olympic to my knowledge. He is the only person who needs to be on the list really, rest are also rans....
my 123 is Nakano, Hesslich then Neiwand

I justify Neiwand simply by saying he was so good for so long! I think at his very best he may have been a little behind my forth pick Fiedler, but he gets the nod on longevity in a sport that isnt kind on age. (which illustraites my choice of Nakano even more)

The only problem with Nakano is he never raced the amateur racers who at the time were going around half a second quicker over 200m, if it was an open competition as it is now i think he would have struggled to get top 5.

And why oh why do people keep voting fot Neiwand??!!
Tactically he was great but nearly all on that list had more success and as long if not longer careers!

Is it that the Australians on this list are biased? :-)

Lee

Lee Povey said:

Is it that the Australians on this list are biased? :-)

Lee

how could you say such a thing???

1. Gary Neiwand
2. Stephen Pate
3. Darryn Hill
4. Sean Eadie
5. Carey Hall
6. Shane Kelly
7. David Dew
8. Kenrick Tucker

😄 😄

ed073 said:

how could you say such a thing???

1. Gary Neiwand
2. Stephen Pate
3. Darryn Hill
4. Sean Eadie
5. Carey Hall
6. Shane Kelly
7. David Dew
8. Kenrick Tucker

😄 😄

Just remind me how many of that list have been caught taking performance enhancing smarties???

Lee Povey said:

Just remind me how many of that list have been caught taking performance enhancing smarties???

lol....😄

Maybe one or two....I'd have to look into it,

Lee Povey said:

Just remind me how many of that list have been caught taking performance enhancing smarties???

On that list of Australian track sprinters the only doubtful, in my mind, is Carey Hall - Kathy Watt's coach/manager/partner/fiance/husband.

None of the others have failed tests for PED's or have been in breach for infractions of other rules relating to drugs in sport. But I welcome any challenge.

Weren't Darryn Hill and his dad flogging tabs to Perth's rave scene? Classy...

VeloFlash said:

On that list of Australian track sprinters the only doubtful, in my mind, is Carey Hall - Kathy Watt's coach/manager/partner/fiance/husband.

None of the others have failed tests for PED's or have been in breach for infractions of other rules relating to drugs in sport. But I welcome any challenge.

Are you serious? What about Eadie importing them does that count?

Lee Povey said:

The only problem with Nakano is he never raced the amateur racers who at the time were going around half a second quicker over 200m, if it was an open competition as it is now i think he would have struggled to get top 5.

And why oh why do people keep voting fot Neiwand??!!
Tactically he was great but nearly all on that list had more success and as long if not longer careers!

Is it that the Australians on this list are biased? :-)

Lee

Yes the Amatures where a little faster, but as Kurt Harnet found out oh so often, fastest isnt always best. I dought the Amatures would have touched Nakano on the track. Funny thing is though that according to legend there where a dozen or so Japanese faster than him about who didnt bother with the worlds....

Fixey said:

Are you serious? What about Eadie importing them does that count?

No, cos he was found not to be importing banned substances. If he had been found to have imported banned substances he would have been sanctioned.

The "drug" in question was a hgh precursor which was provided gratis by the US supplier of legal over the counter vitamin supplements as a promotion to Eadie. Eadie produced his financial records to prove he never ordered and never paid for the hgh precursor. His position was supported by the US supplier.

It is also doubtful whether hgh precursors actually stimulate the production of natural hgh

Fixey The East Germans and Russians Competing at the same time as Nakano were just as skillfull tactically and atleast 0.5 of a second quicker over 200m

For example 0.5 away from the fastest qualifier at last years olympics was 15th place!
As for the fact there were 10 faster guys back home, there may have been 10 better kierin racers but would those men used to racing on big out door tracks in long sprints been world beaters on steep wooden tracks in shorter sprints??
I guess we will never find out.

And to answer your challenge VeloFlash
Stephen Pate and Carey Hall were both disqualified from the same worlds for failing drugs tests about 1990/1991 i think.
Also Darryn Hill has been reported to have failed an out of season test.

Lee

I remember seeing Pate racing at Leicester in the mid 80's, probably 86 - leading up to the commonwealth games, at that time he was no match for Niewand, he was also very lightly built for a sprinter, not carrying any bulk. Quite a contrast from the build he sported in the early 90's when he almost made Hubner look like a streak of pi$$.

He definately did get disqualified form the worlds around that time.

As far as Nakano is concerned I agree that he would not have been quite as competetive against the likes of Hesslich, Kopylov, Hubner. They were quicker and every bit as tactically astute.