Bean Question

Steve Pope said:

Doesn't an overnight soak shorten the cooking time?

It shortens the cooking time of the interior of the bean. So, you get
a soft mushy interior while the skin is still tough and chewy. If you
like your beans like that, go for it. I don't.

nb

Steve Pope said:

notbob said:

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to soak beans for
any length of time unless you want the skin to remain tough long after
the interior is cooked.

Doesn't an overnight soak shorten the cooking time?

Not in my experience...

Doesn't take me more than three hours MAX to cook any bean, I bring them to
a roiling boil for maybe 20 minutes, then turn off the heat and let them sit
for an hour, then simmer for for an hour or so more. Perfect beans every
time...

--
Best
Greg

David said:

On Thu, 03 May 2007 03:04:28 GMT, Mr Libido Incognito <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I can't cook beans to save my soul...Hello my name is Mr Libido Incognito
and I can't cook dried beans. They are always tough...I've tried the
overnight soaking...adding baking soda, adding salt, the boil twice
method...no acids...standing on my left leg , drinking from the other

side

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the glass and many other folk lore methods, alas nothing helps.

One thing that you did not mention trying was cooking the beans in a
pressure cooker. I can pretty much guarantee that this methid will
work.

If you like mooshy beanz with the consistency of baby food...it's very easy
to over - cook things in a pressure cooker, you have to watch the timing
carefully.

Some might suggest a crock pot, but when I make a crockpot soup that uses
beans, I cook the beans separately and only add them in the last hour or so
of cooking (same if I am using canned beans). That way they don't got all
mooshy and over - cooked...and slow cookers don't get up to the boiling
point very fast in any case, if cooking dried beans you want a ROILING boil
initially.

--
Best
Greg

Christine Dabney said:

On Wed, 2 May 2007 23:57:50 -0400, "cybercat" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

No. That is crazy. Cooking dried beans simply takes patience
And NEVER add salt.

No, it is not crazy. Old, very dried beans will never get soft. I
suggest you read up on this... This does happen.

Christine

My mom always told me that, too, Christine - you can't use old beans. I've
never been much of a bean fan, so I wouldn't really know. I have made lima
bean and ham hock soup before, and it came out fine, but that's the extent
of my experience.

kili

"Mr Libido Incognito" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can't cook beans to save my soul...Hello my name is Mr Libido Incognito
and I can't cook dried beans. They are always tough...I've tried the
overnight soaking...adding baking soda, adding salt, the boil twice
method...no acids...standing on my left leg , drinking from the other side
of the glass and many other folk lore methods, alas nothing helps.

So I was wondering how many 14 oz cans of navy beans I'd need to equal
the 2 and 1/2 cups of dried beans required in this recipe; as I have a
jonesing for bean and bacon soup that just won't stop. I'm thinking 2.

Modifications to the following recipe.... so far I'm considering adding
lime juice, sliced elephant garlic, liquid smoke and crushed red pepper
flakes and I'm considering replacing the potato with something maybe a
diced pablano pepper or maybe diced ham ..

Bean and Bacon Soup

INGREDIENTS:

2-1/2 cups dried navy beans
3 quarts water
8 slices bacon
3 onions, chopped
2 cups diced, peeled potatoes
1 cup sliced carrots
28 oz. can tomato juice
2 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. pepper
1 bay leaf

PREPARATION:
Combine beans and 3 quarts water in large pot. Bring to a boil and boil
for 2 minutes. Cover and let stand for 1 hour. Meanwhile, cook bacon until
crisp in large stock pot. Remove bacon to paper towels to drain and
crumble. Add chopped onions to bacon drippings. Cook and stir until onions
are tender. Add partially cooked beans and cooking liquid. Cover and cook
over low heat for 1 hour.

==============
Try not adding the salt to the soaking beans; that is supposed to toughen
the shells I was told. Also when I boil the beans, I don't just boil for
one hour, I boil till they crack open.

kilikini said:

My mom always told me that, too, Christine - you can't use old beans. I've
never been much of a bean fan, so I wouldn't really know. I have made lima
bean and ham hock soup before, and it came out fine, but that's the extent
of my experience.

I'm not much of a bean eater either. Black beans are about the largest I
like. I find big beans just starchy and tolerate them only in limited
amounts such as in vegetable soups. But once in a while, I'll try
someones baked beans at a picnic or bbq and they're much better than I
expect. Not sure if it is the selection of beans used or what...?
My kids on the other hand adore big starchy limas, fordhorks and any
other beans they're served. Just not my thing.

"pfoley" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

==============
Try not adding the salt to the soaking beans; that is supposed to toughen
the shells I was told. Also when I boil the beans, I don't just boil for
one hour, I boil till they crack open.

If you simmered them instead, they would stay whole and get velvety.

--
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"kilikini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Christine Dabney said:

On Wed, 2 May 2007 23:57:50 -0400, "cybercat" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

No. That is crazy. Cooking dried beans simply takes patience
And NEVER add salt.

No, it is not crazy. Old, very dried beans will never get soft. I
suggest you read up on this... This does happen.

Christine

My mom always told me that, too, Christine - you can't use old beans.
I've
never been much of a bean fan, so I wouldn't really know. I have made
lima
bean and ham hock soup before, and it came out fine, but that's the extent
of my experience.

I am the Bean Queen. 🙂 No kidding. And while Christine may be right,
I have never, ever had this problem. Perhaps one reason is that I do not
keep old food around. And yes, someone else said at some point that the
beans might be old when you get them. It has never, ever happened to me.
Maybe because I have always lived in large cities and shopped at high
volume groceries. I am not saying that it doesn't happen. I AM saying
that when someone says, as Mr. L. I. said here, that they never have
beans turn out right, I know they are not cooking them long enough,
or adding salt before they are soft. You never, EVER add salt to hard
beans.

--
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"David" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 03 May 2007 05:13:11 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snipped>

Quoted message said:

And there is NO need to soak beanz overnight, cyberSQUAT...that's just a
needless step.

It is definitely not a needless step. You can, if you wish, bring
the beans to a boil and let them sit for about four hours.

Actually, you can bring them to a boil for two minutes and let
them sit an hour covered off the heat if you forget to soak them.
I prefer the taste and consistency when they have been soaked
overnight, and the water drained and replaced.

Quoted message said:

To the previous poster, salt does make a difference. The difference
may depend on the bean that you are using, however, and the results of
adding salt to the beans at the beginning may vary.

There is simply no need to ever add salt until after the beans are soft.

--
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"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

It is definitely not a needless step.

Yes, it is. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to soak beans for
any length of time unless you want the skin to remain tough long after
the interior is cooked. The longer you soak, the more pronounced this
effect. OTOH, I suppose there are some folks who like their bean skin
a little more chewy.

This is not at all true in my experience. I soak most of them overnight,
and because I cook them gently and for several hours in the case
of black beans, they are always tender inside and out.

--
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"Steve Pope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

notbob said:

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to soak beans for
any length of time unless you want the skin to remain tough long after
the interior is cooked.

Doesn't an overnight soak shorten the cooking time?

Yes, but so does a two-minute boil and an hour in a covered
pan off the heat. Even so, I simmer black beans with fresh
garlic and pepper for three hours.

--
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"kilikini" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I've
never been much of a bean fan, so I wouldn't really know. I have made
lima
bean and ham hock soup before, and it came out fine, but that's the extent
of my experience.

I wish you were more of a bean eater. The protective properties of beans
are well known. More than gas happens when they break down in the
digestive system!

In addition to fiber there are B vitamins and folic acid, very good minerals
and other substances that do things like lower cholesterol and prevent
cancer and heart disease.

My favorite ways to make them: 15-bean soup with hot Italian sausage,
carrots, and celery, and black bean burritos. Black beans are like meat
to me. I load them down with fresh garlic and lots of pepper, and a bit
of cumin, red peppers and chili powder for burritos, a bit of sherry, onion
and lemon juice for soup. The best condiment for both the 15-bean and the
burritos is a sprinkle of sharp cheddar cheese. For burritos I simmer them
down to sludge. 🙂

Hoppin' John is another wonderful bean dish--crisp a pound of bacon under
the broiler or on the stove, drain and add to a pound of dried black-eyed
peas
after they have soaked overnight, along with browned onions. Simmer them
gently until they are the right consistency to put over rice, but still
whole.
(Black-eyed peas cook faster than black beans and navy beans, and have a
more delicate flavor and consistency.) Serve with a sprinkle of cheddar, or
your favorite cheese. Perfect! You can add just a little diced tomatoes for
tang and texture and color, too. Nutritious, cheap, and delicious eating!

--
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Mr Libido Incognito said:

I can't cook beans to save my soul...Hello my name is Mr Libido Incognito
and I can't cook dried beans. They are always tough...I've tried the
overnight soaking...adding baking soda, adding salt, the boil twice
method...no acids...standing on my left leg , drinking from the other side
of the glass and many other folk lore methods, alas nothing helps.

So I was wondering how many  14 oz cans of navy beans I'd need to equal
the 2 and 1/2 cups of dried beans required in this recipe; as I have a
jonesing for bean and bacon soup that just won't stop. I'm thinking 2.

Modifications to the following recipe.... so far I'm considering adding
lime juice, sliced elephant garlic, liquid smoke and crushed red pepper
flakes and I'm considering replacing the potato with something maybe a
diced pablano pepper or maybe diced ham ..

Bean and Bacon Soup

INGREDIENTS:

2-1/2 cups dried navy beans
     3 quarts water
     8 slices bacon
     3 onions, chopped
     2 cups diced, peeled potatoes
     1 cup sliced carrots
     28 oz. can tomato juice
     2 tsp. salt
     1/2 tsp. pepper
     1 bay leaf

PREPARATION:
Combine beans and 3 quarts water in large pot. Bring to a boil and boil
for 2 minutes. Cover and let stand for 1 hour. Meanwhile, cook bacon until
crisp in large stock pot. Remove bacon to paper towels to drain and
crumble. Add chopped onions to bacon drippings. Cook and stir until onions
are tender. Add partially cooked beans and cooking liquid. Cover and cook
over low heat for 1 hour.

That is by far the most fercoctah bean soup recipe I've ever seen, it
flies in the face of all about how to cook beans. First off you never
ever want to cook beans with tomatoes, certainly not that much
tomato... the acid prevents the bean skin from becoming tender... add
the tomato juice at the very end, when the beans are almost fully
tender (it's a good idea to heat the tomato juice separately before
adding to the beans otherwise adding that much cold liquid will stop
the cooking and cause the bean proteins to seize) I'd use a can of
tomato paste instead of tomato juice and just add an extra quart of
water/stock at the onset, beans cook much better in copious liquid...
actually I don't like tomato in bean with bacon soup, but hey, if you
like it go for it. And naturally omit the salt until the end too,
especially since tomato juice and bacon is so high in salt. You also
do not want to use the initial bean soaking/boiling water, dump that.
I honestly don't see the point of potatoes in bean soup. That recipe
needs some herbs (parsley, marjoram, thyme. etc.), could use a cup of
diced celery too, and a couple-three cloves of garlic (and I think
three onions is a bit much for that recipe). The only reason anyone
has a probem with beans is because they don't stop to *think* _before_
they start cooking.

You stole that fercocktah recipe from here:
http://busycooks.about.com/od/hotsouprecipes/r/beanbaconsoup.htm

There are much better recipes on the net.

Sheldon

Sheldon wrote on 03 May 2007 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

There are much better recipes on the net.

So...show me then.

cybercat wrote on Thu, 3 May 2007 08:14:24 -0400:

c> "kilikini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
c c> said here, that they never have beans turn out right, I
know
c> they are not cooking them long enough, or adding salt
c> before they are soft. You never, EVER add salt to hard
c> beans.

But you can add baking soda and it speeds up the cooking.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

"Mr Libido Incognito" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can't cook beans to save my soul...Hello my name is Mr Libido Incognito
and I can't cook dried beans. They are always tough...I've tried the
overnight soaking...adding baking soda, adding salt, the boil twice
method...no acids...standing on my left leg , drinking from the other side
of the glass and many other folk lore methods, alas nothing helps.

I don't do any of that stuff. I never soak. I pick them over and wash
them. Dump them in a large pot with a chunk of ham and enough water to
cover, put the lid on and stick in the oven at 350 degrees for four hours.
Perfect every time. They never boil dry or burn and they're always cooked
perfect. You need to check them after about half an hour and make sure
there aren't any stuck to the sides or above the water level.

Ms P

cybercat said:

"Christine Dabney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 03 May 2007 03:04:28 GMT, Mr Libido Incognito <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I can't cook beans to save my soul...Hello my name is Mr Libido Incognito
and I can't cook dried beans. They are always tough...I've tried the
overnight soaking...adding baking soda, adding salt, the boil twice
method...no acids...standing on my left leg , drinking from the other side
of the glass and many other folk lore methods, alas nothing helps.

Alan,

Maybe it isn't you, but the beans?

No. That is crazy. Cooking dried beans simply takes patience
And NEVER add salt.

This is not true. I always add salt and all the rest
of my ingredients for Boston-style Baked Beans when
I boil the beans. I use Great Northerns. I add salt,
Worcestershire sauce, molasses, prepared mustard, brown
sugar, cinnamon, cloves, vinegar, onion. When they
are done so that the skin wrinkles when you blow on
it - a couple of hours - then I put them in the
casserole and bake at low heat for 6-8 hours, adding
bacon in the last hour. They always turn out quite nice,
firm but cooked through, not too hard and not to mushy.

I *really* hate mushy beans and 2 things I've
discovered over the years making this recipe is never,
ever cover the casserole - this steams them and they get
mushy - and add the salt and vinegar at the beginning as
this helps them to stay firm (al dente).

The only beans I have ever had trouble with was once
I tried to cook dried kidney beans and they must have
been very old as they never got soft. I gave up and
have gone back to using canned ones ever since. In
fact about the only beans I ever cook from scratch are
the Great Northerns for my baked beans as I don't like
canned Great Northerns - they are too soft. But I'm
perfectly happy with canned black beans, black-eyed
peas, and kidney beans. Those are the only varieties
I ever use. I don't get too excited about navy beans,
pinto beans, and all the other beans out there. The
3 listed above fulfull all my beans needs.

Kate

notbob said:

Mr Libido Incognito said:

I can't cook beans to save my soul...Hello my name is Mr Libido Incognito
and I can't cook dried beans. They are always tough...I've tried the
overnight soaking...adding baking soda, adding salt, the boil twice
method...no acids...standing on my left leg , drinking from the other side
of the glass and many other folk lore methods, alas nothing helps.

You've tried all the wrong methods.

Start your water boiling to a full rolling boil. Use plenty of water.
Not some measured amount, but enough to fully cover the beans keep
them agitated during the initial boil. Add the washed beans to the
boiling water and adjust heat to keep the beans moving, but not so
much as cause a boil over. Forget pre-soaking the beans, it's a waste
of time.

Yeah, I used to soak and then decided why? So you just boil
them a little longer. Soaking only helps save fuel since it
shortens the cooking time. That may be a concern to some. I
don't think it's enough to worry about.

Quoted message said:

Let the beans cook at this agitated boil for at least an
hour or more. Leave the lid off the pot and add more water if too
much evaporates. After an hour or so, you can reduce the boil and let
the water reduce to the desired amount. Continue to let the beans
simmer until done. Test the beans periodically for doneness. Using
this method, your beans will come out just like you want them and the
skins will not be tough. Add salt after the beans have reached the
degree of doneness you desire.

Well, we disagree about the salt, but basically you're right.

Quoted message said:

You can still stand on one leg, if you'd like.

Maybe I'll try this the next time, if there ever is one,
I try cooking dried kidney beans. ;-)

Kate

Mr Libido Incognito said:

Sheldon said:

There are much better recipes on the net.

So...show me then.

Soup Song is probably the best soup web site:

Search and read through the many writings and recipes to learn and get
ideas before proceding with a suitable soup: http://www.soupsong.com/zfeb01.html

And don't limit your search or discard a recipe just because it
doesn't contain bacon or a particular bean, you can always substitute
ingredients, say navy beans for limas and bacon for ham or sausage...
but mainly you're reading to glean concepts, and of course you can
improvise.

Hint: the single most important element for successful bean cookery is
to cook beans in copious liquid... cooking beans in a skimpy quantity
of liquid is no different from cooking pasta in too little water...
guaranteed failure.

Very little nutrition is lost by dumping bean cooking/soaking water,
beans skins are actually membranes that operate by osmosis, they allow
only pure water to enter but nothing to leave... you cannot season
beans internally because only pure water can enter, adding salt clogs
those micropores, which greatly impedes the cooking of beans
especially the skins... remember, no salt, no acid, not until the end,
and no sugar either so watch the tomato and onion content. And there
is no such thing as beans being too old... so long as they were
properly stored they are just as nutritious and easy to cook if a
thousand years old... the proper moisture content for dried beans is
if I remember correctly 7pct, often beans stored at home lose some
moisture so they will take some small amount of time longer to cook,
but if cooked properly you'll never realize. Btw, beans should never
be boiled.... the longer and slower beans are cooked the better the
result, barely simmer... even canned beans aren't boiled... cooking
too quickly at too high a temperature over cooks the inside before the
skins become tender... if you like bean mush with skins like toenail
clippings go for it. Pressure processors absolutely ruin beans...
anyone who considers that their standard absolutely has their taste in
their ass.

Sheldon

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mr Libido Incognito said:

So I was wondering how many 14 oz cans of navy beans I'd need to equal
the 2 and 1/2 cups of dried beans required in this recipe; as I have a
jonesing for bean and bacon soup that just won't stop. I'm thinking 2.

Standard liquid to dry ratio for beans is 2 cups liquid to 1 cup dry
beans.

So, 1 cup dry beans should equal 3 cups of canned beans.

I pressure cook beans after a long soak. Works well for us.
My dad has an odd notion that "sprouted" beans are more nutritious so I
plan WAY ahead and humor him. :-)

I soak beans for 3 days with water changes 2 to 3 times per day. This
allows the beans to split as they begin to sprout, and I then pressure
cook them with the same liquid to bean ratio.

Pressure cook time is 20 to 25 minutes.

Even the black soy beans I usually cook come out very tender.
Black soy beans are the only truly "low carb" bean. The flavor and
texture come out similar to pintos.

Oddly enough, the one time I tried pressure cooking them with NO
soaking, a good portion of the beans came out tough/slightly crunchy.
I'm now a fan as well of the "long soak" but I think that 24 hours would
be enough.

I'll continue the 3 day soak tho' for dad's sake. It's not that much
trouble.

For cooking, I generally use ham stock or pork hock stock and add the
meat back later. For a smoky flavor, I add some bacon stock.

Bacon stock is a trip to make, but it's worth it. ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson