basketball rules?

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Today, I was playing basketball with Dave.

We established:
1. A player can ride out of bounds, back in bounds and continue play.
2. A player can dismount, mount and continue to play.
3. A player must have 3 pedal revolutions after the shot for it to
count
(I know #3 is oppossed to the official rules)
4. STEPS AND TRAVELING The player is allowed two steps. (9.2)

WHAT HAPPENED:
I was in possession of the ball, Dave was on defense.
I attempted to make a shot and missed.
After I missed, I wanted to make a tight turn, so I grabbed the goal
post,
swung around, got the ball, dribbled to half court and scored.



A. Dave says the points should NOT count because I used the pole to make
the turn.

B. I say that it is okay to touch the pole as long as the player is NOT
in possession of the ball.
Likewise, I believe:
1. if the ball strikes the pole it is out of bounds.
2. If the player has the ball in 1 hand, and leans on the pole it is out
of bounds.
3. In NBA basketball, a player can touch the pole as long as he does not
have possession.


The "Official Rules to be used at UNICON 10 for basketball" only
addresses the matter in this way:

"9.4 PLAYER ON UNICYCLE The player can only play the ball while mounted
on the unicycle and not touching anything else for support. This applies
to offense, defense, and during jump balls. As an exception to this
rule, players may jump off the unicycle for slam dunks and to block
shots, as long as the player is aware of where the unicycle will end up
and that it will not cause a safety hazard. If another player is fouled
by the player that jumped or gets hit by the abandoned unicycle, a
flagrant foul will be called. The player throwing the ball inbound must
be mounted."

related:
"A player shall not make a second dribble after having completed a
dribble, unless the ball, when it is out of the player's control, has
touched another player, or the opponents' basket or backboard, or has
been batted out of the player's control by an opponent."

QUESTION:
Can a player without possession of the ball use the goal post for
turning, balance, stopping, and making quick reverses (as long as the
player is not in possession of the ball)?


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I'm not a basketball expert here, so hopefully someone who plays more
will respond. My interpretation, based on the rules you quoted, is yes.


However, you quoted NBA rules. IUF Basketball rules default to
"international rules," whatever those are. Since the goal post is not
covered by the specific unicycle rules, it should be whatever is legal
for international (Olympic?) basketball.

What's with the riding out of bounds rule? This should only be allowed
if the rider is not in possession of the ball.


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We agree that a player WITH the ball cannot ride out of bounds.
I meant to refer to players without possession.

Thank you for responding John Foss.
According to all of the search engines, you took the lead in developing
the rules in 2000. I tried to PM to get you to post - but apparently you
cannot be PMed.


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In article <ChangingLINKS.com.15qr36@NoEmail.Message.Poster.at.Unicyclist.com>,
ChangingLINKS.com <[email protected]> wrote:
)
)Today, I was playing basketball with Dave.
)
)We established:
)1. A player can ride out of bounds, back in bounds and continue play.
)2. A player can dismount, mount and continue to play.
)3. A player must have 3 pedal revolutions after the shot for it to
)count
)(I know #3 is oppossed to the official rules)
)4. STEPS AND TRAVELING The player is allowed two steps. (9.2)

I don't like #3 at all. It's really difficult for most people to stay on
their unis after they take a shot, and really, what's the point anyway?
In normal basketball you can take a shot and fall to the floor.

)WHAT HAPPENED:
)I was in possession of the ball, Dave was on defense.
)I attempted to make a shot and missed.
)After I missed, I wanted to make a tight turn, so I grabbed the goal
)post,
)swung around, got the ball, dribbled to half court and scored.
)
)
)
)A. Dave says the points should NOT count because I used the pole to make
)the turn.

It counts. You can use the pole as long as you're not touching the ball
at the time. (The pole is out of bounds).
-Tom
 
That's right, I have PM turned off. I'm surprised the system doesn't
somehow indicate that to users trying to PM me.

But my email address is at the bottom of every post, which is hopefully
enough. My friends and co-workers keep bugging me to set up an IM client
on my machine, but until they can agree on which one, I continue to
annoy them by sticking to email like some decrepit old person.

I would ask basketball people. David Ramos occasionally posts here, or
Teresa Abrahams. Or try to look up international basketball rules.


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johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
www.unicycling.com

"I should be wearing a helmet here -- so should you." -- George Peck,
who prefers not to wear one, in the 1991 video Rough Terrain Unicycling
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>>Or try to look up international basketball rules.

I have searched for quite a bit of time and could not find the
International/Olympic rules. Can anyone point me in the right
direction?

>>3. A player must have 3 pedal revolutions after the shot for it to
count
>>I don't like #3 at all. It's really difficult for most people to stay
on
>>their unis after they take a shot, and really, what's the point
anyway?
>>In normal basketball you can take a shot and fall to the floor.

We made up that rule because we had not seen the official rules and
because we wanted shots to be "in control." Now, I know that the shot
DOES have to be "in control" insofar as the player is responsible for
not allowing the unicycle to fall in such a way that it harms others.
(example: I can't spring off of my unicycle and purposely kick it
backwards at a trailing defending player to do a slam dunk).


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Go to http://www.fibaamerica.com/ and click on, "Rules," to get a copy
of the international rules for basketball in Adobe Acrobat PDF format.

The IUF supplementary rules for basketball are in Section 10 of the IUF
rulebook (2004 edition). The IUF rulebook amy be found at
http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/


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I'm glad to know there are official rules.

We say if you have the ball and are no longer riding, all you can do is
pass the ball. You cannot shoot.

Is there a rule for how much you must dribble? Like twice in ever 10
feet. Or what about "double dribble"? We often dribble some, then not,
then dribble again.


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Memphis Mud wrote:
> *I'm glad to know there are official rules.
> We say if you have the ball and are no longer riding, all you can do
> is pass the ball. You cannot shoot. *

I don't think that is covered in the rules. The way we played a player
cannot touch the ball unless they are on their unicycle (including
picking it up).

> *
> Is there a rule for how much you must dribble? Like twice in ever 10
> feet. Or what about "double dribble"? We often dribble some, then not,
> then dribble again. *

This IS covered in the rules and works just like normal basketball. The
player gets 2 pedal pushes after dribbling to take the shot. Like normal
basketball, a player cannot dribble, stop dribbling and dribble again.
Finally, a modification rule is that a player can take 3 idles (pedal
strokes?) after catching the ball before dribbling. FREQUENCY of
dribbling is the same as basketball, you can dribble as little as you
like so long as you aren't palming the ball when it comes up or allowing
the ball to be higher than your hand. (In other words, the rules of
dribbling are the same). There is an advantage in unicycling because it
seems that less dribbling is required for some reason.


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In article <[email protected]>,
Memphis Mud <[email protected]> wrote:
)
)I'm glad to know there are official rules.
)
)We say if you have the ball and are no longer riding, all you can do is
)pass the ball. You cannot shoot.

Our rule is that if you touch the ball when you're not on the uni, it's
a turnover.

)Is there a rule for how much you must dribble? Like twice in ever 10
)feet. Or what about "double dribble"? We often dribble some, then not,
)then dribble again.

You have to continuously dribble as long as you're moving. As soon as
you pick up the dribble, you have to stop moving. (You can have a "pivot
foot", which we define as idling in place). Once you've picked up the
dribble, you can't dribble again (double dribble).

"Picking up the dribble" includes touching the ball with both hands,
or holding the ball by the bottom half with one hand.

There's no rule about how fast you must dribble, as long as it's with
just one hand at a time and with your hand on the top of the ball.
-Tom
 
In article <ChangingLINKS.com.15r0kv@NoEmail.Message.Poster.at.Unicyclist.com>,
)There is an advantage in unicycling because it
)seems that less dribbling is required for some reason.

You're up higher, so each dribble takes longer.
-Tom
 
A player may not continue to handle the ball if he / she comes off the
unicycle. From Section 10 of the 2004 edition of the IUF Rulebook:

10.4 PLAYER ON UNICYCLE

The player can only play the ball while mounted on the unicycle and not
touching anything else for support. This applies to offense, defense,
and during jump balls. As an exception to this rule, players may jump
off the unicycle for slam dunks and to block shots, as long as the
player is aware of where the unicycle will end up and that it will not
cause a safety hazard. If another player is fouled by the player that
jumped or gets hit by the abandoned unicy-cle, a flagrant foul will be
called.


10.5 PLAYER OFF UNICYCLE

If a player falls and loses the unicycle, the player must try to get it
out of the way as soon as possible if it can be done without disrupting
the flow of play. If that is not possible, then the player must leave it
where it lands until it can be retrieved without being disruptive. A
violation will result in an obstruction foul.

10.8 CONTACT OF THE BALL WITH THE UNICYCLE

As long as the player is in contact with the unicycle, riding or not, it
is considered part of a player when a ball bounces out of bounds off the
unicycle. If this happens the other team gets possession of the ball.


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We'll have to bend the rules for a while.

There's only a couple of our players who can pick up the ball from the
floor. All of the kids can. They're down close to the floor anyway.

If we adhered too closely to the official rules, we wouldn't get much
play time. We'll work on it tho.


--
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Mantra: Avoid Hitting Tailbone...Avoid Hitting Tailbone...

"do not think, just ride"...muniracer
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Memphis Mud wrote:
> *We'll have to bend the rules for a while.
>
> There's only a couple of our players who can pick up the ball from the
> floor. All of the kids can. They're down close to the floor anyway.
>
> If we adhered too closely to the official rules, we wouldn't get much
> play time. We'll work on it tho. *

I am not sure that you understand correctly. If the ball comes to a rest
(and no one can pick it up while mounted) - you can simply treat it as
if it is "out of bounds" (with a "half mounted" player inbounding the
ball. The other players still get the same amount of playing time
because they must continue to ride to handle the ball (or get into
position). Utimately, if the ball is not able to be picked up, it would
eventually be shoved out of bounds to restart play anyway (not
considering fouls, time limits, etc.)

On another note,
Dave and I did away with "checking" the ball and replaced it with a
verbal confirmation.


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In article <[email protected]>,
Memphis Mud <[email protected]> wrote:
)
)We'll have to bend the rules for a while.
)
)There's only a couple of our players who can pick up the ball from the
)floor. All of the kids can. They're down close to the floor anyway.
)
)If we adhered too closely to the official rules, we wouldn't get much
)play time. We'll work on it tho.

Most of our group can't pick up the ball on the ground. Since trying to
pick up the ball on the ground isn't very fun, our rule is that your
team gets one attempt to pick it up; if you fail, it's a turnover.
-Tom
 
ChangingLINKS.com wrote:
> Memphis Mud wrote:
>> *I'm glad to know there are official rules.
>> We say if you have the ball and are no longer riding, all you can do
>> is pass the ball. You cannot shoot. *
>
> I don't think that is covered in the rules. The way we played a player
> cannot touch the ball unless they are on their unicycle (including
> picking it up).

What if you have possession then fall off?
 
Scott Kurland, RMT wrote:
> *What if you have possession then fall off? *
I believe what experienced players do is try their best to pass it to a
teammate before their foot touches the ground. If not, I believe it's
treated as a turnover.

My advice is to try out the full rules for a while, and when you find
things that are too much of a hassle for your group, make changes as
necessary. The idea is to have fun, of course. As your group gets better
you can go back to the stricter rules, or even make up your own. You
only need to use the official rules if you go to play another team. This
is explained a little bit in the hockey section, I believe.


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John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
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"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not
because they are easy, but because they are hard." -- John F. Kennedy,
1961
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