ARRRRRGH

"S. Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I've patched probably...200 tubes. I never enjoy it and I never know if
it's going to work. I was doing it in the confines of a nicely appointed
shop..doing it on the road while sweating and rushing, that's a horror I
could do without. I tried to sell new tubes whenever possible...usually
cheaper than the time it takes to patch one. So don't feel too bad..

I had a flat yesterday, a relatively rare thing, as I only get a few per year.
I really enjoyed it. The most important thing in flat fixing is to find a
comfortable place to work, so I walked up the road a little to where there was
a stone wall to sit on and lean my bike against. Although I had a couple of
spare tubes, I actually prefer patching on the road to home in the garage.

I had been riding fast with a group, about halfway along a 40 mile loop when I
flatted. I waved them on. I didn't bother rushing the job, I just took my
time, enjoying the pleasant morning and the simple task. I've had many flats
in places that I wouldn't have otherwise stopped. For the most part, those
stoppings are pleasant memories, I tend to think of them if I ride by again.
The only really bad time I recall fixing a flat was one cold December day,
when I was lost deep in unfamiliar woods, alone, with a flat, mud covered
tire, at dusk. That isn't a fond memory. Most of the time, fixing flats can be
a pleasant event, it's all a matter of how you look at it.

Quoted message said:

Most of my riding is in the city anyhow and I don't even bother to
carry a tube or pump, I'll just hop on the subway if I get a flat.

Patches? Patches? We don't need no stinkin' patches.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Peter Cole said:

The only really bad time I recall fixing a flat was one cold December day,
when I was lost deep in unfamiliar woods, alone, with a flat, mud covered
tire, at dusk. That isn't a fond memory.

My version was in a campground in Maine on a summer's evening. We'd
ridden away from our campsite on a sort of shortcut trail through the
marshy woods when the tandem flatted. Despite three people swatting, I
probably lost a pint of blood to the mosquitos.

How did people live before DEET?

--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable, replace with
cc.ysu]

Luigi de Guzman said:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:45:34 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What kind of patch did you use?

It was a glueless one.

Oh. Forget those. Get real patches.

--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable, replace with
cc.ysu]

Did you use one of those "no glue' (read: no stick!) patches? at best
they are only good for twenty miles or so.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Regarding the FAQ comment on resistance to stretching by the patch; If
possible, I always inflate the tube somewhat before applying the patch.
This will prevent the stretching of the patch, as the tube will already
be at the size it will be when inflated inside the tire.

It will create a "blister" when the tube is deflated and rerolled (if
you save patched tubes for spares). because the patch won't shrink any
more than it will stretch. But while it's in the tire, you won't have
that narrow spot that can sometimes be felt while riding.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:07:01 -0400, "frkrygow"

frkrygow'@mousepotato.edu said:

Peter Cole said:

The only really bad time I recall fixing a flat was one cold December day,
when I was lost deep in unfamiliar woods, alone, with a flat, mud covered
tire, at dusk. That isn't a fond memory.

My version was in a campground in Maine on a summer's evening. We'd
ridden away from our campsite on a sort of shortcut trail through the
marshy woods when the tandem flatted. Despite three people swatting, I
probably lost a pint of blood to the mosquitos.

How did people live before DEET?

They avoided being out and about in mosquito-prone areas, or during
dawn or dusk at peak mosquito activity. They also planned settlements
to drain water, avoid stagnant pools, and take advantage of breezes.

Also, mosquitos don't like cooking fires and the smoke they create.

-Luigi

Luigi de Guzman said:

Quoted message said:

How did people live before DEET?

They avoided being out and about in mosquito-prone areas

minnesota? between winter and mosquito season you're left with late april,
may early june and late september.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Reuteler said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

Quoted message said:

How did people live before DEET?

They avoided being out and about in mosquito-prone areas

minnesota? between winter and mosquito season you're left with late april,
may early june and late september.

I understand Winnipeg gets 'em, too. And in especially bad
mosquito seasons, there are worries about their bites
causing encephalitis.

Maybe there needs to be more bats, swallows, dragonflies, etc.

good ride,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@mousepotato.edu> wrote

Quoted message said:

My version was in a campground in Maine on a summer's evening. We'd
ridden away from our campsite on a sort of shortcut trail through the
marshy woods when the tandem flatted. Despite three people swatting, I
probably lost a pint of blood to the mosquitos.

How did people live before DEET?

I've been there too. I *never* go on long rides or rides in the woods w/o
DEET. Ever tried to pee in a cloud of mosquitoes? Losing blood is one thing,
but...

Luigi De Guzman said:

I must suck at flat-fixing.
Many moons ago, I had a flat. I patched it. It held air. Life was good.
I went away for a couple of weeks, during which my bicycle languished on
its hook. now that I come back to it--the tire is flat. No problem, I'll
just pump it up--and then I hear the sharp hiss.
Do patched tires *always* continue to leak? or is my patching bad?
I'll just slap a new tube on it this afternoon and re-teach myself how
to patch. ugh.
-Luigi

🙁

I have been having the same problem of late. The patch kits never
provide enough damn glue. But the key is roughijh up thr tire surace
very well and getting the glue all over that area. The next trick is
keeoing your dirty fingers off the patch--impossible. I have had such
poor luck lately that I am trying the glueless patches next. I will let
you know how they work. But after more than 3,000 mile last season I
didn't get a flat. Amazing. This year first time out on new tires I ran
over freshly broken glass. Sliced a new Pro Race. That hurts. Ended up
throwing the tube out and using a new one. Good luck

--

(Chris Zacho 'The Wheelman') said:

Did you use one of those "no glue' (read: no stick!) patches? at best
they are only good for twenty miles or so.

Not my experience at all. While they have less of a life span than a
glued patch, they're SO quick and easy that they're all I use now
(here in thorn central). I've found that if you apply them with a bit
of air in the tube (so the patch doesn't have to stretch when airing
the tire), and if you don't let the tire go flat by not riding for
weeks at a time, they last for many months if not years.

I guess some are better than others though - I use the Park patches
and recommend them (for what it's worth, and with the proviso that
they have to be installed properly and not allowed to go flat for long
periods of time).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Donald Yacovone said:

I have been having the same problem of late. The patch kits never
provide enough damn glue.

Buy a small bottle of rubber cement at Office Depot for home use and
save the little tubes for the road. You can also buy solvent for it
(can't remember what it is, but it's common stuff like turpentine or
denatured alcohol) if the bottle dries out.

So far I've been lucky. Even though I use Rema (or Pep Boys) patches
and ride as soon as I pump up the tire, the only failures have been when
the spoke (or a thorn) pokes through the exact same place, which
certainly isn't Rema's fault.

--
Cheers,
Bev
============================================
"People are too stupid to realize they are."
--JoHn DoH KeLm

Peter Cole said:

The most important thing in flat fixing is to find a
comfortable place to work, so I walked up the road a little to where there was
a stone wall to sit on and lean my bike against.

That's number two. Number one is buying a new patch kit or at least a
new tube of glue every few months. Nothing like having the ability and
the patches, but just a dried-up tube of glue.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

frkrygow said:

Peter Cole said:

The only really bad time I recall fixing a flat was one cold December
day,
when I was lost deep in unfamiliar woods, alone, with a flat, mud covered
tire, at dusk. That isn't a fond memory.

My version was in a campground in Maine on a summer's evening. We'd
ridden away from our campsite on a sort of shortcut trail through the
marshy woods when the tandem flatted. Despite three people swatting, I
probably lost a pint of blood to the mosquitos.

How did people live before DEET?

I've found a remarkable reduction in annoyance from mosquitoes,
horseflys, black flies, green flies, etc. from just wearing a
broad brimmed hat!

Seems the critters get a little confused as to where your head
actually resides, and spend much of their time buzzing and biting
the top of the hat or brim.

It isn't fool proof. There seem to be some "genius mosquitoes"
just like people around, but it really helps.

I might add that before WWII, people commonly wore brimmed hats,
especially out in wilderness areas. I think it really helps.

SMH

Mark Hickey said:

(Chris Zacho 'The Wheelman') said:

Did you use one of those "no glue' (read: no stick!) patches? at best
they are only good for twenty miles or so.

Not my experience at all. While they have less of a life span than a
glued patch, they're SO quick and easy that they're all I use now
(here in thorn central). I've found that if you apply them with a bit
of air in the tube (so the patch doesn't have to stretch when airing
the tire), and if you don't let the tire go flat by not riding for
weeks at a time, they last for many months if not years.

Hasn't been my experience with them. As you say, certainly
convenient in speed, but they don't seem to wear well. A
month or so in my experience. I think they were the Park
variety.

I still keep them on board during rides because you never
know when that tube of glue ends up being dried out and
unusable, even when attempting to keep an unopened spare.

And when are you going to realize that you already opened
that spare tube of spare glue which has dried out, and failed
to replace it with a new, unopened tube?

Next patching session of course!

SMH

Chris Zacho said:

Regarding the FAQ comment on resistance to stretching by the patch;
If possible, I always inflate the tube somewhat before applying the
patch. This will prevent the stretching of the patch, as the tube
will already be at the size it will be when inflated inside the
tire.

Quoted message said:

It will create a "blister" when the tube is deflated and rerolled
(if you save patched tubes for spares), because the patch won't
shrink any more than it will stretch. But while it's in the tire,
you won't have that narrow spot that can sometimes be felt while
riding.

I don't think that is a good idea, patches don't fail from being
stretched but rather from "lift off" from inside to outside, caused by
the mechanism described in the FAQ. The blister can only enhance the
ability of the tube to separate from the patch, it being stretched
regardless of what the patch is doing. The blister, or hump, also
enhances static "lift off" if the tube is put in reserve rather than
being reinstalled.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.1.html

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Jobst Brandt wrote in part:

<< ...patches don't fail from being
stretched but rather from "lift off" from inside to outside, caused
by the mechanism described in the FAQ. ... >>

Patches don't fail, period, if they are installed correctly.

The "mechanism described in the FAQ" is a complex rationalization
that has been conjured to cover someone's inability to use a patch
kit.

Robert

Robert5 who? snipes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...patches don't fail from being stretched but rather from "lift
off" from inside to outside, caused by the mechanism described in
the FAQ.

Quoted message said:

Patches don't fail, period, if they are installed correctly.

That's the big IF. If they are not installed as described in the FAQ
the failure mode is as described. From what you say, you have not
done an autopsy on discarded tube, ones that were patched and ridden
immediately. When cutting through patches that held, the area under
their centers are often full of talc from within the tube. I came
upon this when analyzing failed patches and ones that did not fail.
These were tubes from riders who patched carefully by the rules other
than riding the patched tube immediately after patching.

Quoted message said:

The "mechanism described in the FAQ" is a complex rationalization
that has been conjured to cover someone's inability to use a patch
kit.

Just because you didn't make this discovery, doesn't mean it is
invalid. Have you tested old tubes to see how many of their patches
are fully adhered? Before being so sure of yourself, you might
investigate whether your assessment is correct. As you see, I always
include methods by which you can verify the findings. You don't need
to take it on faith nor should you attack these findings with your
perception against a tested hypothesis with nothing more than faith.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

<< > Patches don't fail, period, if they are installed correctly.

That's the big IF. If they are not installed as described in the FAQ
the failure mode is as described. ...<snip> >>

Ok, I have performed your test. I don't have any
discarded tubes around, but I sacrificed one of my
reserve tubes, which, not incidentally, had about a
dozen patches on it. My patches on a years old tube
show no pulling away whatsoever, not around the
edges, not in the center.

Here's the thing, Jobst. I don't believe you know how to
install a patch correctly. The method you have
described here and in the FAQ is not the correct one.

If a tube is patched using your incorrect method, the
failure mode may very well be as you describe it. If the
patch is installed correctly, there is no failure mode to
speak of.

Robert