Arch cleats??

doctorb said:

Referring to Biomac's statement, if both cyclists could remain precisely at their respective ATs (documented by metabolic cart testing), one in the small chainring with a faster cadence, and the other in the larger chainring with a slower cadence, I could not predict who would fade faster.

Simple. In a case of something which cannot be proven in a general case, the one who is not using the product being advertised at the time will fade faster. 😉

doctorb said:

(...) As a neurologist, I recognize the fact that multiple muscles come into play for any complex action. The human body is not one hundred percent efficient. The same power output does not necessarily imply the same level of respective participation from each muscle. Perhaps rediustribution of muscular workload could improve endurance. This must however be tested under precisely controlled conditions. I hope these insights serve as food for ongoing thought. Barry

Thanks Doc for commenting on an important point in the puzzle. Apart from the mechanical improvement of a prolonged downstroke combined with a shorter pulling sector, the redistibution of workload on more efficient muscle groups, here: upper thighs and hamstrings instead of tiny calves and perigenual region, was essential when it comes to evaluate the changes within the athlete due to bio-mxc². Talking about efficiency, the middle third of the foot has got it all: Enormous power a n d endurance, the ability to compensate higher reps due to a still active ankle play a n d a direct transmission of the rider's legpower to the pedal. That's why we chose it as the ideal area of cleat attachment and designed a bicycle shoe sole which could host any cleat on the current market in this zone.
The 'rest', like dramatically reduced weight, stack height, water uptake and exposition to chemicals within the shoe plus superior ventilation, classical
toe - and heel-lift and the option to make a customized shoe for those, who due to individual requirements would suffer from mass-production shoes was 'just' a necessary consequence in order to give our finding the appropriate finish.

Ergoman said:

What you have provided is a list of the individuals' webpages. Once again, no photos, no race results, no mention of arch cleats or your products on any of these pages. If you have photos or results from any of these athletes using arch cleats in competition, please post them here.

Ergoman, I don't know how to paste pictures into this forum but I just found one on CN which shows a European pro, riding our shoe and position cyclingnews.comfitnessOpen ↗
The guy, Thomas Rohregger got 4th in the race.
Like it?

biomac said:

Ergoman, I don't know how to paste pictures into this forum but I just found one on CN which shows a European pro, riding our shoe and position cyclingnews.comfitnessOpen ↗
The guy, Thomas Rohregger got 4th in the race.
Like it?

Yeah, but the guys who got 1st, 2nd and 3rd were riding conventional cleats. Did Rohregger get 4th because of the cleats or in spite of them?

Ergoman said:

Yeah, but the guys who got 1st, 2nd and 3rd were riding conventional cleats. Did Rohregger get 4th because of the cleats or in spite of them?

Who knows? Pitty is, you'll never find out, unless you tried yourself.
Maybe you should start with one foot in traditional, the other in bio-mxc² position and watch which leg will tire first?!
Keep us all posted, will you?! 😉

Ergoman said:

What you have provided is a list of the individuals' webpages. Once again, no photos, no race results, no mention of arch cleats or your products on any of these pages. If you have photos or results from any of these athletes using arch cleats in competition, please post them here.

In order to keep this thread up to date, here you go: 62.75.177.102biomac p20h1s4 .htmOpen ↗
number of shoes/rider: 1pair each
time for adaptation from 1st contact with bio-mxc²: 10 days
placement: 1st
average speed: 18mph
result: 1st place
website: www.visual-values.com
Please understand if they probably had no time for an update yet.😉

biomac said:

Now who on earth made us propel our cranks with our toes instead of our arches?! A pair of biomac's Y² for him who can name this Bean.

cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗

Are you going to tell me I got this wrong? I'd love a pair of shoes to test, so I can share the results with my clients.

jbvcoaching said:

cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗

Are you going to tell me I got this wrong? I'd love a pair of shoes to test, so I can share the results with my clients.

Although I would name other torturers: Were is your measures?
Please send them to [email hidden]

biomac said:

Although I would name other torturers: Were is your measures?
Please send them to [email hidden]

On the way, thanks!

n crowley said:

What Hogg fails to realize is that the same broom handle type lever example occurs between hip and knee, resulting in even more serious loss of effectiveness in pedal stroke when transferring generated power downwards from knee. This is demonstrated by the increase in power as hip moves forward when rider gets out of saddle. Just another of the many disadvantages associated with using vertical pedal pressure to power the pedals.

You're not saying that a BENT puts you in a better position to put power to the wheels are you? HMMM.

NORECUMYET said:

You're not saying that a BENT puts you in a better position to put power to the wheels are you? HMMM.

No, I was referring to the technique used by the muscles when generating pedal power that is applied by pressing directly down on pedal.

Seven years have gone by since this post has been originally published. Seven years and not only authors
like Steve Hogg or Joe Friel insist that they continue to ride their bikes in shoes where cleats have been
mounted mid-foot/bio-mxc² or in arch-cleat position. Even a study has been published by a New Zealand
professor which claims to have found quite an enormous improvement of performance for triathletes in the
running split after having completed the time trial pedaling midfoot. 5 shoe-makers in the U.S. sell shoes to
their clients with cleats positioned in the middle of the sole.
Are there any other new discoveries being made in the meantime?

Not that I've seen. I follow Steve Hogg's website and he doesn't seem to have looked at it much since.

I'd give it a go but I can't really find enough space on the soles of my specialized shoes to drill spd holes... :P

Can't speak fro him, swampy1970, but I'm sure testimonials like him and Joe will feel that all that's neccessary to say has been published by them. Instead, its now up to the industry to carry the message further rather than trying hard to make it impossible for their customers to modify their shoes to give it a try. Is there any other cyclist who has tried to modify his shoes and wants to share his experience?.

You can add adapter plates to speedplay pedals if you want to play around moving your cleats pretty far back. I just had a fitting done, and the position that worked best for me in Sidi Mega shoes was certainly to the rear of the ball proper (though not all the way back at the arch); but I have some pretty funky feet.

I was always taught by the older wiser veterans to keep my heels down while pedaling. Seems that a more aft position would encourage that foot position, but I would leave it to experts as to whether there are distinct bio mechanical advantages.

Thanks kopride,
problem with these adapters is that they reach only half into my patented territory (for obvious reasons). This can lead to irritations of the muscle slope in that sense that the gastrocs don't pull synchoneously causing slight inflammations to the knee capsule. When you position your cleats right in the centre of the middle third of the sole this won't happen at all. Guaranteed. Make sure you lowered your seat post sufficiently.as otherwise knee cap or back gets too much under pressure.

Hi Biomac, after talking to you a couple of years ago, I modified my own shoes with the cleats now set back at 62mm from the neutral position due to a defective calf muscle on one leg. I am very happy with the position and performance. I did a bikefit with Klas, who moved my cleats forward around 15mm, but I set them back to my preferred position after 2500km of riding. I was using 2 bolt SPD cleats but these gave poor lateral support and I found my foot tipping outwards. I now use crank brothers pontoon cleats which allow 2 volt cleats, but with the width of a road ckeat for support. I recently had a pair of shoes custom made by luck.es to my specifications for cleat position...

I don't have any pictures to hand, but I made a short video of the shoes....

Great news Hammerman!
Glad you found help and someone eventually got down to make the right shoes for you.
Pitty the link you posted doesn't open on my computer.
How much did they charge you and how long did it take them to make your boots?

Hi Götz,

I chose one of the cheaper shoes that Luck offer as a test to see how everything would be, everything including shipping was 117 Euro and after the initial period of discussing if they would even be able to make midsole positions for me and explaining what midsole position was, from the time of placing the order to receiving them was 2-3 weeks.

They also offer their top of the range custom shoe where the customer can even design the graphics on the shoe for 300 euro.

Here are a couple of screen dumps from the video, showing the Luck shoe before I fitted the cleats to highlight to cleat hole position and the Sidi shoe I modified myself and have used for 10 000km with the pontoon cleats from crank bros fitted.[IMG]cyclingforums.com700Open ↗[/IMG]

[IMG]cyclingforums.com700Open ↗[/IMG]