Another wrist slapping

On Thu, 24 May 2007 17:53:43 +0100, "Clive George"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[---]

Quoted message said:

(We have been in a similar situation before - can you remember what it was?)

Maybe <[email hidden]>, where he proclaimed "I
said I think you're stupid if you ride without gloves but that's up to
you"

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Chris Eilbeck wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well you may only ever put your feet on the pedals and never touch the
floor of your car. I tend to put my feet on the floor when I get into
the car. I also tend to take them from the pedals and stretch from
time to time. I also drive with my heels on the floor virtually all
the time.

I'm intrigued by how you manage to stretch your right foot when driving.

Cruise control?

Cheers,
Luke

--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

Chris Eilbeck wrote on 24/05/2007 20:52 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I accept that you and Dave Larrington don't find it to be a problem
and that's fine. I don't accept that someone ignorant of my situation
says I'm wrong in doing what I feel is safest for me and others.

I don't think anyone is saying you are wrong for making the own choices,
just wrong that driving barefoot is a problem.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Clive George said:

"Chris Eilbeck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I said, as I have before, this is my position, this is why I think
> this. You've said no, it's like this, you must accept my view. I
> do not accept your view. I will not stop wearing shoes because you
> think it's safe for me to drive that way.

I'm not asking you to do that. I'm asking you to consider the fact
that your proposed mechanism for stones getting in the way can't
actually happen.

Well you may only ever put your feet on the pedals and never touch
the floor of your car. I tend to put my feet on the floor when I
get into the car. I also tend to take them from the pedals and
stretch from time to time. I also drive with my heels on the floor
virtually all the time.

Now tell me, is it still impossible to get a stone on the bottom of
my foot?

Thanks for finally offering something to discuss.

Yes, my heels stay on the floor too. But the proposed danger is the
stone sticking to the feet such that it would cause pain when
pressing the brakes in a hurry - in that situation, would you be
pressing the brakes with the front of the foot or the heel? The
front of the foot isn't the bit potentially picking up stones, and
it is the bit used for emergency braking.

The bit of my foot I press the throttle with is not the same as the
bit I press the brakes with. Not all cars have throttles hinged at
the top.

Quoted message said:

Thus although there could be potential for a comfort problem, or a
minor irritation, there really isn't scope for this to translate
into a safety problem.

(you may not feel safe driving barefoot - not being used to the feel
of the pedals, or even just a vague "ooh, this feels wrong" would be
an entirely adequate explanation of that.)

What I said is "I don't understand how people can..." Dave and Tony
said "You can etc.". You seem to want me to accept that it must be
possible for me to but you have no idea what my circumstances are.

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck

Andrew Price said:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 17:53:43 +0100, "Clive George"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[---]

Quoted message said:

(We have been in a similar situation before - can you remember what it was?)

Maybe <[email hidden]>, where he proclaimed
"I said I think you're stupid if you ride without gloves but that's
up to you"

And?

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck

Ambrose Nankivell said:

I'm intrigued by how you manage to stretch your right foot when
driving. Mine's almost always on the throttle or on the brake, and
the one time I remember taking it away from the throttle to stretch
while decelerating, I found it took a touch to long to find the
brake when I needed it and decided that that was a BAD PLAN.

Well there are times when there's nothing in front of you within a few
hundred yards and nothing coming up behind you that you might have to
avoid, and you just let the throttle close for a few moments, press
your foot on the floor and tighten your calves while arching your
foot. Works wonders for avoiding cramps etc. just like standing up on
the pedals for a few moments or shrugging your shoulders a couple of
times feels good.

Quoted message said:

As such, I just got used to going two hours with my right foot in
that position, then having a break.

I'd rather not sit in one position for that long.

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

Heels are something I seldom wore. I have little experience of
driving, thou I passed my test in 1985. I don't think they'd make much
difference; the pedals are usually operated by the forefoot, aren't
they?

I don't wear heels much either, but I would imagine that high heels increase
the distance between the point where the heel touchs the floor and the ankle
joint. This would tend to make the foot unstable.

Bit like cycling in platforms, but I've never done that either, so what do I
know?

SWMBO says she wouldn't but it might be OK once you get used to it.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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in message <[email hidden]>, Andrew Price

(') said:

Clive George said:

(We have been in a similar situation before - can you remember what it
was?)

Maybe <[email hidden]>, where he proclaimed "I
said I think you're stupid if you ride without gloves but that's up to
you"

I think you're stupid if you ride without gloves. Gravel rash on the palms
of the hands is particularly unpleasant. But it is entirely up to you.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

I'm fed up with Life 1.0. I never liked it much and now it's getting
me down. I think I'll upgrade to MSLife 97 -- you know, the one that
comes in a flash new box and within weeks you're crawling with bugs.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think you're stupid if you ride without gloves. Gravel rash on the palms
of the hands is particularly unpleasant. But it is entirely up to you.

Oh dear Simon. What's gone wrong with you today?

Do you really think I'm stupid if I pootle into town to do my shopping
without putting a pair of gloves on? Coz that's what you imply above.

clive

in message <[email hidden]>, Clive

George (') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think you're stupid if you ride without gloves. Gravel rash on the
palms of the hands is particularly unpleasant. But it is entirely up to
you.

Oh dear Simon. What's gone wrong with you today?

Do you really think I'm stupid if I pootle into town to do my shopping
without putting a pair of gloves on? Coz that's what you imply above.

If you want my personal opinion, yes I do.

As what's wrong with me today, there's no 'today' about it; I've been in a
positively foul mood, and utterly lacking in a sense of humour, for weeks.
Hasn't everyone noticed?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

Simon Brooke wrote on 25/05/2007 17:46 +0100:

Quoted message said:

As what's wrong with me today, there's no 'today' about it; I've been in a
positively foul mood, and utterly lacking in a sense of humour, for weeks.
Hasn't everyone noticed?

It's our age Simon. We've both become grumpy old men ;-)

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Tony Raven said:

Chris Eilbeck wrote on 24/05/2007 18:27 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The difference is that you want me to accept your position *and*
accept mine is wrong. That is an argument, not a discussion.

Quoted message said:

Usually practical experience trumps hypothesis. If both sides were
arguing from theory you would have a point but since you have only tried
it once briefly and apparently didn't actually have the problems you
theorise and others of us do it extensively without problems tends to
indicate your theory is wrong and Clive is right BICBW

I've been watching this thread with some interest.

I think the whole issue about whether driving barefoot or not is or
isn't safe/OK depends entirely on the person doing the driving.

Personally, I utterly hate being barefoot at all. I know, rationally,
that it's perfectly possible to spend one's life barefoot and many
millions of people have (and stil do so). But at the same time I have
an irrational fear that a foot unprotected by shoegear will rapidly
abrade down to the bone if walked on rough hard surfaces. But then I
also intensely dislike being naked - I'm just more comfortable clothed
and shod than not.

So for me to drive barefoot would be at best deeply unpleasent, and
quite possibly dangerous. But this wouldn't apply to other drivers,
who might in fact be more comfortable and hence in better control if
barefoot.

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

Simon Brooke wrote on 25/05/2007 17:46 +0100:

Quoted message said:

As what's wrong with me today, there's no 'today' about it; I've been in
a positively foul mood, and utterly lacking in a sense of humour, for
weeks. Hasn't everyone noticed?

It's our age Simon. We've both become grumpy old men ;-)

Dammit, I'm not _ready_ to get old!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

Simon Brooke wrote on 25/05/2007 19:37 +0100:

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

Simon Brooke wrote on 25/05/2007 17:46 +0100:

Quoted message said:

As what's wrong with me today, there's no 'today' about it; I've been in
a positively foul mood, and utterly lacking in a sense of humour, for
weeks. Hasn't everyone noticed?

It's our age Simon. We've both become grumpy old men ;-)

Dammit, I'm not _ready_ to get old!

I knew I was getting old when I looked at a Ferrari and my first thought
was "I'll never get out of that!" ;-(

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Pyromancer said:

Personally, I utterly hate being barefoot at all. I know, rationally,
that it's perfectly possible to spend one's life barefoot and many
millions of people have (and stil do so).

Having grown up in Africa and spent most of my childhood without shoes, I still
love going barefoot. I still do so at every opportunity, including when there
is snow on the ground. My wife has never left the UK and is dead against going
barefoot, without rational reasons. So I educate my kids when she isn't
looking, and guess what? They love going barefoot.

I guess it's what you are used to.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Pyromancer said:

Personally, I utterly hate being barefoot at all. I know, rationally,
that it's perfectly possible to spend one's life barefoot and many
millions of people have (and stil do so).

Having grown up in Africa and spent most of my childhood without shoes, I still
love going barefoot. I still do so at every opportunity, including when there
is snow on the ground. My wife has never left the UK and is dead against going
barefoot, without rational reasons. So I educate my kids when she isn't
looking, and guess what? They love going barefoot.

I guess it's what you are used to.

I like to feel snow between the toes too, just until they go
numb that is.
--
Cheers
the.Mark

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Chris Eilbeck said:

Tony Raven said:

> and losing control? That one experience of moving a car by less
> than 20ft really put me off no-shoes driving.
Not at all. Don't you worry about the lack of sensitivity, the
insulation of your foot from the pedals by the shoe sole, the
possibility of pushing the wrong pedal and not realising until you
realise that the car isn't doing what you expected? Like Mr
Larrington I prefer my feet commando when driving.

It's gotta be the right pair of shoes. Walking boots are a no-no for
me. No shoes doesn't feel right either.

To address someone else's point from earlier, my pedals are different,
I press different parts of the throttle and brake pedal so I could
easily have a piece of detritus from the footwell stuck to my foot and
not know until I have to brake. If I really do *have* to brake, the
last thing I want is to be hesitant because it might hurt.

Quoted message said:

What? You have to press hard on the brake pedal to brake hard? You might
want to get a car that fixes that problem.

I'd be interested in a car that wasn't designed so that operation of
the brake was done by the foot, which is not only as far as you can
possibly get from the brain, but is also at the end of one's heaviest
and slowest moving limb. Really screws up emergency braking reaction
times. Doesn't say much for the intelligence of car drivers that
they've put up with such idiotic control ergonomics for so long.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said:

I'd be interested in a car that wasn't designed so that operation of
the brake was done by the foot, which is not only as far as you can
possibly get from the brain, but is also at the end of one's heaviest
and slowest moving limb. Really screws up emergency braking reaction
times. Doesn't say much for the intelligence of car drivers that
they've put up with such idiotic control ergonomics for so long.

If they put brake levers on the steering wheel, it would mean using both
hands to drive. How would donuts, coffee, cigarettes and cell phones
possibly be incorporated into the serene glide to work?

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris Malcolm
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I'd be interested in a car that wasn't designed so that operation of
the brake was done by the foot, which is not only as far as you can
possibly get from the brain, but is also at the end of one's heaviest
and slowest moving limb. Really screws up emergency braking reaction
times. Doesn't say much for the intelligence of car drivers that
they've put up with such idiotic control ergonomics for so long.

If there was a better way don't you think it would be used in Formula 1?

Marc Brett said:

If they put brake levers on the steering wheel, it would mean using both
hands to drive. How would donuts, coffee, cigarettes and cell phones
possibly be incorporated into the serene glide to work?

IV drips. Well, IV would work for the coffee and cigarettes at least:
you'd need a drip for the cellphone

-dan