Am I missing something?

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:44:52 GMT, Roger <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The OP was referring to the cost of 1:25000 scale maps which are still
extortionate.

Ah...

Quoted message said:

The cost of 1:50000 has come down remarkably since the OS
started licensing other suppliers but not so long ago the situation was
very very different. The quote below is culled from a ng message I have
saved from 1998.

******************************************************************************

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No, and certainly not from the OS :-( who charge a fortune for their
electronic data.

About £75 per Landranger 50,000 series map I believe. (on CD)

I think you'll find that this has just gone up again :-(

******************************************************************************

£75 per 1:50k map? Wow...

Quoted message said:

Buying a large lump is all very well but what you actually get is 5% (or
less) of what you want and 95% of not what you want. When the OS
eventually twigged they were happy to sanction such bulk sales on the
confident expectation that very little of the 'not wanted' would leak
into the hands of the entirely different population who want a paper map
of their home territory or random holiday destination.

Certainly there's a lot in the GB North that I'll never use, but it's
a bit scary how much money I've actually spent on maps over the last
15 years: it's definitely more than £120, although almost all of them
are 1:25k.

If a person's going to walk regularly in, for instance, the Lakes,
Yorkshire and Scotland, and especially if they want to use a GPS, then
I reckon it's probably not a bad investment at all. I imagine that the
same can be said for GB South. Certainly I already regard the £40 I
spent on the Lakes at 1:25k as money very well spent.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:26:22 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Roger,

Apologies: looking back, I see I mixed my attributions up and
addressed you as the OP. Sorry about that.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

Peewiglet <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Certainly there's a lot in the GB North that I'll never use, but it's
a bit scary how much money I've actually spent on maps over the last
15 years: it's definitely more than £120, although almost all of them
are 1:25k.

If a person's going to walk regularly in, for instance, the Lakes,
Yorkshire and Scotland, and especially if they want to use a GPS, then
I reckon it's probably not a bad investment at all. I imagine that the
same can be said for GB South. Certainly I already regard the £40 I
spent on the Lakes at 1:25k as money very well spent.

I agree, after going through at least two copies each of Dark Peak,
White Peak, Y.Dales South & West, Y.Dales North, I only wish they had
been available 30 years ago!
Add a few more to that, plus a bunch of Landranger and Pathfinders and I
dare not add it up!

I find the OS maps are good present units for my recent birthday and for
Xmas I may get the Lakes in a square to plot the limited walking I did
there in my prime. Alas no more. :-(
--
Gordon

Rooney said:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:18:39 +0100, "theo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Rooney" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:03:28 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>also the 'virtual landscape'.

Mine doesn't work. I get an error message about DirectX 9 and display
drivers. Afaik everything on my PC is up-to-date with the latest
drivers etc., but it still doesn't work in virtual landscape mode.

You need to have DirectX 9 installed on your computer. IIRC I downloaded it
from the M$oft site. It's free.

I have it, and the latest display driver. I can't figure out what the
problem is.

Aha! Sorted!
Not bad, is it?
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

Rooney said:

Quoted message said:

I have it, and the latest display driver. I can't figure out what the
problem is.

Aha! Sorted!
Not bad, is it?

Excellent! What was the problem?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:04:43 +0000, Gordon <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I find the OS maps are good present units for my recent birthday and for
Xmas I may get the Lakes in a square to plot the limited walking I did
there in my prime. Alas no more. :-(

I find these things are often more enjoyable when remembered at
leisure than they actually were at the time :-) You can fly round the
routes this time!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:03:28 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:46:32 +0000, Barry Samuels
| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| but there's
| also the 'virtual landscape'. This enables you to essentially fly
| around the area of your map, looking at a very realistic 3D rendition
| of the ground beneath you.

Us old timers can do the same thing purely mentally by just looking at the
contour lines. That is why the OS has them on the map. We do *not* need a
computer, but can do it on the top of a hill.

Perhaps a little more practice in map reading is called for?

--
Dave F

"Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:03:28 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:46:32 +0000, Barry Samuels
| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| but there's
| also the 'virtual landscape'. This enables you to essentially fly
| around the area of your map, looking at a very realistic 3D rendition
| of the ground beneath you.

Us old timers can do the same thing purely mentally by just looking at the
contour lines. That is why the OS has them on the map. We do *not* need
a
computer, but can do it on the top of a hill.

Perhaps a little more practice in map reading is called for?

--
Dave F

Not really Dave. Most of us like you can read maps, many extremely well. The
point is it's fun! Perhaps not for you but for many of us it is.

Dave Fawthrop said:

| but there's
| also the 'virtual landscape'. This enables you to essentially fly
| around the area of your map, looking at a very realistic 3D rendition
| of the ground beneath you.

Us old timers can do the same thing purely mentally by just looking at the
contour lines. That is why the OS has them on the map. We do *not* need a
computer, but can do it on the top of a hill.

Perhaps a little more practice in map reading is called for?

Quite possibly, but in the meantime I find Anquet v. helpful 🙂

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Barry Samuels <[email hidden]> said

I assume you were looking at just ONE 1:25k sheet equivalent then ..
yes, that's an expensive way to buy the data (plus the software, and the
elevation data and the mini-map, etc.). Now if you get a bit more

Yes they appear to go down to only TWICE the price of a paper equivalent!!
Digital maps should really be cheaper as there's no printing, folding or
packaging involved.

What I may find very interesting is a supplier of digital maps only, no
software (I don't use Windows), in something like DXF format which I could
view with CAD software. Anybody know of any such supplier?

Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk - The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

My real email address is barry (AT) realbritain (DOT) plus (DOT) com

The message <[email hidden]>
from Gordon <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Certainly there's a lot in the GB North that I'll never use, but it's
a bit scary how much money I've actually spent on maps over the last
15 years: it's definitely more than £120, although almost all of them
are 1:25k.

Even on face value my map collection adds up to more than that. The 1"s
(which is getting on for half of them) start at 5/6d and the early OLs
were only a £.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If a person's going to walk regularly in, for instance, the Lakes,
Yorkshire and Scotland, and especially if they want to use a GPS, then
I reckon it's probably not a bad investment at all. I imagine that the
same can be said for GB South. Certainly I already regard the £40 I
spent on the Lakes at 1:25k as money very well spent.

I have only just dipped my toe in that particular pool but MM 1:25000
for The Lakes cost me much more. The only other digital mapping I have
is OL 12 from Tracklogs which came as a half price offer in lieu of a
free 1:50000 tile of West/North Yorks homeground grot.

Quoted message said:

I agree, after going through at least two copies each of Dark Peak,
White Peak, Y.Dales South & West, Y.Dales North, I only wish they had
been available 30 years ago!
Add a few more to that, plus a bunch of Landranger and Pathfinders and I
dare not add it up!

Quoted message said:

I find the OS maps are good present units for my recent birthday and for
Xmas I may get the Lakes in a square to plot the limited walking I did
there in my prime. Alas no more. :-(

According to the cover Wainwright intended the "Outlying Fells of
Lakeland" for folks like you but be warned. While some of the walks are
a real doddle others are partly at least over largely trackless wastes
that are hard going. I actually went head over heels on rough ground on
Thursday and if there had been a boulder in the wrong place no doubt I
would still be there, but past caring. Funny what you think about at
such times but the thought that went through my mind as I came to rest
with nothing but a wet patch on one elbow to worry about was Chris
Malcolms comment about letting oneself fall when twisting an ankle.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 89 summits
New - 61 (Marilyns 14, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 49)
Repeats - 28 (Marilyns 11, Sweats 21, Wainwrights 16, Outlying Fells 1)

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:38:30 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Rooney said:

Quoted message said:

I have it, and the latest display driver. I can't figure out what the
problem is.

Aha! Sorted!
Not bad, is it?

Excellent! What was the problem?

Best wishes,

Not quite sure. The PC came with the software for the card preloaded.
I downloaded a different version of the software and hey presto -
everything works!
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

Rooney said:

Not quite sure. The PC came with the software for the card preloaded.
I downloaded a different version of the software and hey presto -
everything works!

It's well worth spending a short time working out how to drive the
virtual landscape from the keyboard without having to think too hard
about it. I used to play a lot of video games, so I find it fairly
intuitive. Contemporary sign of a misspent youth (though I enjoy pool
too :-)

Anyway, I didn't realise how much fun it was, because I hadn't risen
high enough from the landscape to see what was there. So, do make sure
to press the 'F' key to rise higher. Then look around - it's amazing
:-)

Enjoy!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

Barry Samuels said:

Quoted message said:

I assume you were looking at just ONE 1:25k sheet equivalent then ..
yes, that's an expensive way to buy the data (plus the software, and the
elevation data and the mini-map, etc.). Now if you get a bit more

Yes they appear to go down to only TWICE the price of a paper equivalent!!
Digital maps should really be cheaper as there's no printing, folding or
packaging involved.

I understand your frustration about the price, but it's a bit silly to
ignore the 'extras' that come with digital mapping when purporting to
draw a comparison. You're not comparing like with like.

Those who have no use for custom maps, link-up with GPS and/or the
virtual landscape are probably better off with paper maps (unless
they'd be buying a lot of them, in which case digital becomes
cheaper). Lots of people do find those features helpful and/or fun,
though: those are presumably the people who buy them.

[...]

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

Barry Samuels said:

Yes they appear to go down to only TWICE the price of a paper equivalent!!
Digital maps should really be cheaper as there's no printing, folding or
packaging involved.

But there's licensing of the source material and software development.
Neither is free.

The product allows you to do things that paper maps can't. That is
rather the point you're missing, I'd say.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:44:20 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I didn't realise how much fun it was, because I hadn't risen
high enough from the landscape to see what was there. So, do make sure
to press the 'F' key to rise higher. Then look around - it's amazing
:-)

Whoops! Sorry - I mean the 'R' key....

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I didn't realise how much fun it was, because I hadn't risen
high enough from the landscape to see what was there. So, do make sure
to press the 'F' key to rise higher. Then look around - it's amazing
:-)

Whoops! Sorry - I mean the 'R' key....

Please tell me you are not a pilot.... :-)

Richard Webb

Quoted message said:

I did the same thing and came to the same conclusion! You also get maps that
run with the slightest hint of damp.

This is a job for ....................................

Captain Ortleib!

An ortleib map bag is all you need. So easy to use an Anquet A4 with
one of those.. and you can put your paper map safely away in your pack
if you wish - good backup

Richard Webb

Peter Clinch said:

Barry Samuels wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes they appear to go down to only TWICE the price of a paper equivalent!!
Digital maps should really be cheaper as there's no printing, folding or
packaging involved.

Quoted message said:

But there's licensing of the source material and software development.
Neither is free.

Quoted message said:

The product allows you to do things that paper maps can't. That is
rather the point you're missing, I'd say.

That is why people buy them, even though they're more expensive than
the paper maps. But given that they're cheaper to make than the paper
maps, some extra factor is required to justify their extra cost. Like
greed. Like the Govt using taxpayer's money to make the maps, and then
insisting that the OS make money by selling what we've paid for back
to us. Like the costs of all those expensive lawyers trawling the web
for people with maps on their web pages they can threaten.

Sometimes I disapprove so strongly of the commercial practices
associated with a certain product that I can't bring myself to buy it,
even though it might actually be useful and worth the money.

Software by the Gates Gang for example. Or OS digital maps.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said:

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Sometimes I disapprove so strongly of the commercial practices
associated with a certain product that I can't bring myself to buy it,
even though it might actually be useful and worth the money.

Software by the Gates Gang for example. Or OS digital maps.

Oh well said that man - I agree with that.

Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk - The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

My real email address is barry (AT) realbritain (DOT) plus (DOT) com