General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Allergies and hygiene and sundry

Started by Oz · · Last activity · 1 post · 324 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
9 January 2004
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Oz
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  1. Newsgroups reorganised, subject changed.

    Boron Elgar <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    This makes sense insofar as the way certain allergy treatments are done... with repeated low dose
    exposure to allergens to build resistance.

    Hmmm. Of course you are trying to do the exact opposite here. That is you are trying to prevent a
    completely inappropriate and excessive immune response to a harmless chemical.

    It gets a little more complex here, even in this simplified explanation, but there is now very
    considerable evidence that continued lack of exposure to bacterial challenge predisposes people to
    allergies. The effect was noticed when several large scale studies by different groups showed that
    those with a high exposure to pathogens (particularly as infants) had low or near zero incidence of
    allergies. Its almost unknown in the third world and firstborn in the first world are much more
    likely to have allergies than second and subsequent born.

    The mechanism proposed for this is again a fairly simple one. There are essentially two immune
    response mechanisms in mammals. One targets bacteria and the other viruses and toxins. The two are
    mutually inhibitory, that is when one runs full bore, the other is suppressed. In the absence of a
    challenge this is clearly an unstable situation, but in 200,000,000 years of evolution that has
    never been a problem because bacterial challenges happen every day but viral and toxin challenges
    are rare. Until hygienic man came on the scene, who lives in a completely unnatural sterile
    environment. Now the lack of challenge due to bacteria means the toxin response is not continually
    inhibited so it becomes hyperactive and can (and does) mount a full-blown lifesaving-at-all- costs
    response to very minor exposure to mild (or even harmless) toxins.

    There are quite a few refs to this now. For a very old one try googling 'let them eat dirt' on the
    new scientist website.

    Also, in passing, the treatment of some allergies by infection with intestinal worms seems to be
    very effective, although few would want this treatment unless their allergy was extreme (but
    some are).

    I find this all very interesting.

    Quoted message said:

    Even with vaccination, such as for measles, they are now realizing that the vaccines used for a
    long time did not confer lifetime immunity, but required boosters in early adulthood.

    That's not quite what I heard.

    Many (perhaps all) lifetime immunities are conferred by the virus NOT being eradicated from the body
    after the first infection. Chicken pox, for example, ends up in some nerves where it remains but
    highly suppressed. When infected people get old and/or get sick so their immune response drops it
    flares up to give shingles.

    Now some vaccines (eg the OLD polio vaccine) are live 'weakened' vaccines, and the virus quickly
    reverts to the active form after vaccination. However it has a very slow start and by the time its
    becomes fully virulent the body has already mounted an immune response and stomps it out before
    clinical symptoms occur. Typically these give lifetime response if there is a lifetime response to
    that pathogen.

    Some are dead viruses. The body mounts a (modest) response, which is fine. However in the absence of
    further challenges the response slowly decays. At some point it falls so far that the immunity no
    longer effective. Now in days gone by this wasn't a problem because *everyone* got exposed to the
    wild virus sooner or later (and usually sooner). In the first world this no longer happens.

    That's probably enough for this post.

    --
    Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. DEMON address no longer in use.

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