A friendly wave

Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:52:19 -0400,

Quoted post said:

My guess as to the reason? Simple snobbery...

They can't help it. They're ill.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD):
http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html

Fabrizio's case looks to be a bit harder to pin down:
http://www.mentalhealth.com/icd/p22-pe07.html
--
zk

Quoted message said:

"Marlene Blanshay" [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Incidentally, I find that out of all the people on the road, drivers that
is, motorcyclists are the least amount of trouble. I have never had a
motorcyclist, even the toughest looking ones on the biggest hogs, ever yell,
spit, curse swear or harrass me or my friends. In fact, they tend to give a
wide berth and often are friendly and even wave at us!

The friendliest fellow road users I encounter seem to be carloads of teenaged
girls. I think that's due to some kind of "socialization via flirtation"
learning stage some of them go through when they'll flirt with anyone at
anytime. Motorcyclists are the second friendliest group though. The only any
negative interaction with motorcyclists I have ever had was at a series of
stoplights with a Harley rider and his girlfriend. He seemed to get a little
miffed when, despite all the noise he produced from stoplight to stoplight, I
kept up with him through three lights. He was definitely aggravated when I
passed him after the third light. He blew by me right after I passed him almost
like we were racing. Yeah, right. My legs and lungs against a 1200cc internal
combustion engine.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

P.S.- That Harley rider would have *really* been ticked if he'd known I never
even used my big ring between the stoplights. <g>

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

but then I ride in Levi type jeans and a ragged t-shirt.
None of that lycra stuff for me.

Ok Bill, so life has dealt you a poor hand.

Look, the world is full of nobodies, it's asking a bit
much to expect guys like me to go around and wave/
smile/nod at you types.

Why get on the bike in the first place if you look so bad?
Cars were made for people like you.

I really don't want to read Bill's reply to this, but I just sorta have
to...you know?

Bill "like watching a fishing bobber on the surface" S.

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

Ok Bill, so life has dealt you a poor hand.

Look, the world is full of nobodies, it's asking a bit
much to expect guys like me to go around and wave/
smile/nod at you types.

Why get on the bike in the first place if you look so bad?
Cars were made for people like you.

Every now and then you hit your character spot on. This is one. Thanks
for the laugh.

My 2 cents.....When I was on my 20-25 year old mountain bike, or now on my
bikeE bent.....I always (well, almost always) say hello and/or wave to
EVERYONE I pass....In either direction....And most say hi and/or wave back
to me...This is usually on the multi-use paths here...

On the main streets, some do, some don't.

A couple of weeks back in Walnut Creek, had a Hell's Angel type biker pull
up next to me at a stop light. I was on my bent. He looked my bike up and
down, gave me a big toothy smile and a thumbs up, and said (with gusto)
"Nice Bike!!".....And since he had a good looking and well decorated
motorcycle, returned the compliment...We both drove off with smiles on our
faces.....

Eric, bikeE CT

(Chalo) said:

Even racer-wannabees
and outlaw-biker-wannabees, otherwise largely at odds, will extend the
hand of greeting to each other in passing.

Almost always. Even the hardest core, baffle-free, leather encrusted
Harley Hog rider will normally give me the "low wave" even though I'm
on the one of the least similar bikes on the planet (a quiet
water-cooled white BMW sports touring bike that doesn't leak oil).

<snip>

Quoted message said:

To a one, those riders who seemed to ignore my greeting were Cycling
Enthusiasts in uniform-- wearing Lycra in colors not found in nature,
topped with styrofoam hats, riding road bikes of recent vintage and
uncomfortable-looking rider position. Along with their regalia they
wore expressions between serious and grim. They rode by, all of them,
as if they failed to notice the near-7-foot, near-400-pound guy on a
6-foot tall chopper waving to them as they passed.

I've found that the more "into it" riders tend to be on the road
(including those riding flat-bar bikes), the more subtle their
acknowledgement tends to be. By the time you reach Fabrizio's level,
you've pretty much reduced what used to be a friendly "shooshing flies
from the tractor seat wave" to the extension of a few fingers on the
right hand (probably left hand in the UK and other places who haven't
learned to drive on the right side of the road yet).

If you don't know where to look, you miss it. And let's face it, they
go by so fast you have little time to catch the friendly finger-wave.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

dreaded said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:11:26 -0700, Terry Morse <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

OK, I'll add my 2 cents to this. I always wave at Harleys and other
motorcycle types and they always wave back (the Harley types at least),
but then I ride in Levi type jeans and a ragged t-shirt.
None of that lycra stuff for me.
The Harley guys wave back and the pocket bikes usually don't. I used to
ride with the Harley crowd and they are a lot more sociable than they
get credit for, especially to another two wheel rider. What they would
do about some guy in lycra waving might be just to laugh, but then so
would I when I was on a big motorcycle.
On a bicycle I have been passed by 3 guys in lycra on road bikes an
they were too absorbed in themselves and their conversation to even wave
back. I know, they were training.?

Bill Baka

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i hate to rant on the NG but Jeez, it's all about uniforms isnt it? and
colors (whether it be oily levis or yellow lycra). i wear what's
comfortable
to train in and bright enough to be seen by those (maybe not paying
attention?). nobody ever waves to me, or, i didnt see them. im really
just
trying to survive out there and get a workout in the process. do you wave
and say hi to everyone you pass on foot? i would love to tell everyone on
the road how nice it is to see them but frankly i'm busy and my heart
rate
is going about 160. and no-i'm not a big fan of rec.bicycles.racing
either.
i get very bored when people start going off on politics.
-alan

Heck with the uniforms, I have done 80 miles in cutoff jeans and a t shirt.
I carry a kids large book backpack with tools, a gallon of O.J., a bunch
of bananas, some pre-baked potatoes, maybe somehigh calorie chocolate
snack cakes, my camera, and whatever other junk fits. It is very non
traditional but I am self contained for up to 80 miles, then I usually
run out of Orange Juice and fill up the gallon jug with mountain stream
water, bugs, fish [censored], and all. I could go over 100 miles on one of
these trips but I could not claim a roadie century, since I do get off
the bike and enjoy the nature. This puts me more in tune with some of
the motorcycle crowd than the roadie crowd for some reason. I manage to
ride or hike enough to sometimes keep my heart rate up around 160-170 most
of the day, peaking at about 180 for short blasts. Nobody to wave to up
there but one guy on a motorcycle was surprised to see me and glad to wave
first. People seem to get friendlier the farther they get from the city
traffic.
I will have my Schwinn road bike going tomorrow but I will never get to
take it to all the interesting back woods hideouts I have found. Just
miles and miles of circles on what good pavement I can find.
And no damn lycra.
Bill Baka

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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 03:16:55 GMT, Fabrizio Mazzoleni <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

but then I ride in Levi type jeans and a ragged t-shirt.
None of that lycra stuff for me.

Ok Bill, so life has dealt you a poor hand.

Look, the world is full of nobodies, it's asking a bit
much to expect guys like me to go around and wave/
smile/nod at you types.

Why get on the bike in the first place if you look so bad?
Cars were made for people like you.

Proably because I can outspeed many of the Lycra crowd due
to superior conditioning riding my *-mart Huffy MTB as
fast as I can. You should fear me after tomorrow when I get
my real road bike going. And I still won't wear any damned
silly looking Lycra, great legs or not. If I can get a 48
pound Huffy up in the mountains I think I can really haul
ass on a 20 something pound road racer. But I will still
wave to my brethren on Hawgs. I was a bicycler, then a
Hawg biker, then got married and went back to tame bicycles.
When I drive I tend to go way too fast and use that damn
fossil fuel. I would rather arrive sweaty and content.
Bill Baka

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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 03:16:55 GMT, Fabrizio Mazzoleni <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

but then I ride in Levi type jeans and a ragged t-shirt.
None of that lycra stuff for me.

Ok Bill, so life has dealt you a poor hand.

Look, the world is full of nobodies, it's asking a bit
much to expect guys like me to go around and wave/
smile/nod at you types.

Why get on the bike in the first place if you look so bad?
Cars were made for people like you.

Proably because I can outspeed many of the Lycra crowd due
to superior conditioning riding my *-mart Huffy MTB as
fast as I can. You should fear me after tomorrow when I get
my real road bike going. And I still won't wear any damned
silly looking Lycra, great legs or not. If I can get a 48
pound Huffy up in the mountains I think I can really haul
ass on a 20 something pound road racer. But I will still
wave to my brethren on Hawgs. I was a bicycler, then a
Hawg biker, then got married and went back to tame bicycles.
When I drive I tend to go way too fast and use that damn
fossil fuel. I would rather arrive sweaty and content.
Bill Baka

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 05:07:26 GMT, S o r n i <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

but then I ride in Levi type jeans and a ragged t-shirt.
None of that lycra stuff for me.

Ok Bill, so life has dealt you a poor hand.

Look, the world is full of nobodies, it's asking a bit
much to expect guys like me to go around and wave/
smile/nod at you types.

Why get on the bike in the first place if you look so bad?
Cars were made for people like you.

I really don't want to read Bill's reply to this, but I just sorta have
to...you know?

Bill "like watching a fishing bobber on the surface" S.

More people would think I am wierd if I had to dress up in a bicycle
geek outfit just to ride 20 miles or so. I have an image to maintain,
and I don't want it to be the fit 55 year old wearing bright yellow
lycra. My own grandchildren would disown me, and they are my occasional
short trip riding club. The kids are way more fun than a bunch of adults
who think they are the ultimate example of cyclist etiquette.
Besides, I can get off the bike and hike through stickers and weeds when I
get the urge, can you? I am more fit than most 35 year olds so who gets
the last laugh. I have had non-cycling friends have 5 way bypasses before
they even saw 50. Laughing all the way to 100, miles and years. And I wave
mostly to Harleys since I can talk Hawgs with them, and that gets them into
a very friendly "You used to ride one?" kind of mood. I just can't put
$20,000 into a bike right now, maybe later I will join the grey Angels.
Bill Baka

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"Bill Davidson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:l7aVc.956$kz6.241@fed1read02...

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

Is this consistent with anyone else's experience?

Pretty much. People on bikes wave here all the time. While many
people on the fancy fairly new racing bikes and ridiculously
over-priced clothes do sometimes wave, they are less likely than
just about everybody else.

To understand the mentalitity of these people, all you have to do
is spend some time in rec.bicycles.racing. Yes, they do think they
are better than you.

This is funny. You guys here are the ones casting stones and creating
stereotypes. Maybe a guy has an hour to get in a good, hard workout. He's
focused on what he's doing. Not everyone is into cycling for the social
aspect. Why is it that folks like you seem to insist that everyone do
things YOUR way, or there's something wrong with them? They're just people
who are into cycling to get something else out of it.

This kind of attitude just destroyed our local club. If you became at all
serious about cycling, you became some sort of outcast. ("You have to ride
OUR way .... WAAAAAHHH.) Well, it got to the point where all the serious
cyclists left the club and a hand full of folks who blow the dust off their
bikes a couple times a month got it all to themselves for their little
social outings. Now they wonder why the club can't attract any new riders.
Meanwhile, a number of rides have sprung up that attract the serious folks.
We ride hard. We ride nice bikes and wear "cycling" gear. We enjoy what we
do and we enjoy the company of other like-minded cyclists. Our socializing
is in the parking lot or at the post-ride gathering place. We wave when we
see other cyclists.

Maybe the problem is, we're blowing by them so fast they hardly notice it!

Bob C.

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I spend more time on my motorbike than on my pushbikes most weeks, and
I get to take part in the motorcyclists' quaint tradition of waving to
each other when they pass on the road. (VW bus drivers do this too, I
remember.) Rare is the motorcyclist who intentionally refuses this
gesture to his two-wheeled motoring brethren. Even racer-wannabees
and outlaw-biker-wannabees, otherwise largely at odds, will extend the
hand of greeting to each other in passing.

Being in the habit of delivering the friendly wave at a second's
notice, I often find myself waving to bicyclists when out riding my
own bicycle.

Yesterday, I was riding my big blue chopper Babe down the waterfront
bike lanes to meet some of my Dead Baby Bikes club compatriots.
Riding high and mighty, and sporting my club colors, I was making a
point of delivering the wave to all the cyclists who passed my way. A
lot of them, maybe most, replied in kind. Many did not, and most of
those seemed willful about it. No big deal, of course, but there was
something in common with all those who did not wave or smile or say
hello.

To a one, those riders who seemed to ignore my greeting were Cycling
Enthusiasts in uniform-- wearing Lycra in colors not found in nature,
topped with styrofoam hats, riding road bikes of recent vintage and
uncomfortable-looking rider position. Along with their regalia they
wore expressions between serious and grim. They rode by, all of them,
as if they failed to notice the near-7-foot, near-400-pound guy on a
6-foot tall chopper waving to them as they passed.

Yet all the other folks on bikes (the ones wearing mostly real
clothes, regardless of the type of bike or speed with which they rode)
had some kind of acknowledging response, mostly very friendly.

Is this consistent with anyone else's experience?

Are folks who wear "Superduperbikeman" getups playing some character
role from which they fear to depart?

What's the deal?

Chalo Colina

I ride a skinny tire bike and wear lycra on all rides. I always give a wave
and smile to other cyclists, even the homeless men loaded down with
everything they own hanging on the bike. I can't wave, however, when I'm
doing intervals by myself or recovering after an interval or when I'm in
front of the paceline taking my turn. I can sometimes manage to lift the
fingers of my left hand off the bars but I don't think the on coming cyclist
can see that feeble attempt. So if you see me and I don't wave, that's why.
It could be this way for other riders as well.

As a former motorcycle rider, I find that us 2 wheelers have some things in
common while trying to share the road with 4 wheelers. Perhaps that is why
motorcyclists and cyclists seem to 'get along'. I aways enjoy when large,
noisy, groups of motorcyclists are on-coming or passing me on the bike!

jb

In article <[email hidden]>,

psycholist said:

This is funny. You guys here are the ones casting stones and creating
stereotypes. Maybe a guy has an hour to get in a good, hard workout. He's
focused on what he's doing. Not everyone is into cycling for the social
aspect.

I just can't socialize during the morning commute (it's too
early for me for that, and my sole intent is to get to the
destination ASAP,) or while riding to job sites. Most of the
other riders I encounter during the morning commute seem to
feel the same way -- maybe they're still waiting for the
caffeine to kick in, or haven't had their first cup of coffee
of the day yet. So I don't pester 'em. If they wave at me,
I don't have time to notice, let alone acknowledge them.

Otherwise, at stop lines I often get to engage in pleasant
little small-talk conversations with other riders, while
waiting for a break in the cross traffic.

cheers, & I think I'm playing hooky today,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:59:36 -0500, Jeff Starr <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Well this year, I borrowed a pump from a guy on a recumbent, who was
parked at the time. I have gotten to know him and it is the same guy.
Now about half the time, he will see and wave to me. The rest, he
never even notices me. It turns out, that he often is unaware of other
riders. So he isn't the most unfriendly guy around, he just wasn't
aware of me.
So now I give the benefit of the doubt to most people. Of course,
their are some who I think shun me, because I'm on a road bike. So it
can work both ways.

I think this is true for most racers. I've had a couple join me at the
outside table at the local restaurant and when I made a joke about
them not waving a few minutes before, they were clueless. Since I've
known them for about 15 years, I'm guessing that they really rode past
me on my recumbent (on the other side of the road) and never noticed.
You can get pretty focused on a training ride.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heck with the uniforms, I have done 80 miles in cutoff jeans and a t

shirt.

Quoted message said:

I carry a kids large book backpack with tools, a gallon of O.J., a bunch
of bananas, some pre-baked potatoes, maybe somehigh calorie chocolate
snack cakes, my camera, and whatever other junk fits.

Well, hell, I've done 120 miles in the hot Nevada sun in an itchy wool
sweater, nothing underneath except a jangly belly dancer belt, and a pair of
stiff corduroys that had been rolled in burrs so they'd dig into my flesh
with every pedal stroke, and a pair of old worn zoris. I carry a bob yak
trailer stuffed with watermelons, bowling balls (in case I pass by an
alley), a sousaphone (if I'm feeling musical), a set of power tools (usually
just the jig and the cross cut saw, but sometimes I take the router, plate
joiner, and the thickness planer, too), my newfie dog, and a ten gallon drum
of single malt scotch, in case me or my buddies get thirsty along the way.

I still manage to wave at everyone, or at least fart in their general
direction. I don't know what it is with these snobs that think they're
superior because they wear clothing that is comfortable for what they are
doing, and don't feel the need to take all of their most precious
possessions along.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Jean said:

My experience is the same as yours - racer wannabes almost always ignore me
and never wave, mountain bikers and "regular folks" nearly always say
'hello' in some manner. I've experienced the same thing when I've been
standing by the side of the road with a bike problem - racer wannabes
zipped on by, mountain bikers and "regular folks" asked if I needed help.

My guess as to the reason? Simple snobbery...

Most of the 'racer wannabes' in our area are either club riders or
actual racers. Both types stop quicker than anyone else. Maybe people
are reading body language on both sides...

OTOH, since I know how to fix a flat, a good portion of the non-lycra
crowd probably figure I don't need their help or know more than them,
one or the other. I don't waste my energy trying to worry about them
not stopping. The lycra crowd usually is checking to see if I need a
pump.

FWIW, riding a recumbent I'm not wearing lycra or cycling jerseys.
Sort of wasted so mostly I'm in pretty casual mountain bike clothing.
So its not like the 'racer wannabes' are confusing me with a team
member.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

More people would think I am wierd if I had to dress up in a bicycle
geek outfit just to ride 20 miles or so. I have an image to maintain,
and I don't want it to be the fit 55 year old wearing bright yellow
lycra.

It's not just the lycra, it's the "attitude". I tried it for awhile, but it
hurt to emulate the average "real" roadie.

You have to tilt your head just right, and make exactly the right face at
motorists who are going the other way. That's at least as important as the
lycra. I couldn't keep up. All that scornful grimacing made my face hurt.
My legs were fine when I finished each training ride, but I had to get my
jaw muscles massaged.

Bill Baka said:

I am more fit than most 35 year olds so who gets
the last laugh.

probably me bill. you'll have to make it to 110 to statistically outlive me.
(my family lives generally to at least 90 -- mad as a hatter but accounted
for).
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"Claire Petersky" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Well, hell, I've done 120 miles in the hot Nevada sun in an itchy wool
sweater, nothing underneath except a jangly belly dancer belt, and a pair of
stiff corduroys that had been rolled in burrs so they'd dig into my flesh
with every pedal stroke, and a pair of old worn zoris. I carry a bob yak
trailer stuffed with watermelons, bowling balls (in case I pass by an
alley), a sousaphone (if I'm feeling musical), a set of power tools (usually
just the jig and the cross cut saw, but sometimes I take the router, plate
joiner, and the thickness planer, too), my newfie dog, and a ten gallon drum
of single malt scotch, in case me or my buddies get thirsty along the way.

I still manage to wave at everyone, or at least fart in their general
direction. I don't know what it is with these snobs that think they're
superior because they wear clothing that is comfortable for what they are
doing, and don't feel the need to take all of their most precious
possessions along.

Thanks Claire. It is always good to know others share my riding habits- minus
the jangly belly dancer belt that is. I prefer to wrap a few spare tubes and a
spare chain around my waist. "Just in case", you know?

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Eric Ferguson said:

A couple of weeks back in Walnut Creek, had a Hell's Angel type biker pull
up next to me at a stop light. I was on my bent. He looked my bike up and
down, gave me a big toothy smile and a thumbs up, and said (with gusto)
"Nice Bike!!"

A wild guess: Did you both have ape hanger bars?
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/