700cc questions

skate4flip said:

*Sort of a threadjack: I was riding my 20" unicycle and i put a
speedometer/odometer on it and i tried to see how fast i could ride.
I reached 14.2 mph for about a second or so. Does this seem accurate
or is my speedometer wrong?

I rode the 20" on a 3 mile loop when my dad clocked it in the car (i
wasnt with him so i dont know it was exactly 3 but that is what he
said), and it said i went 3.75 miles. Is it because my wheel swirves
back in forth sometimes or is it just wrong? *

I'm going to go with, the speedometer was wrong.
Some things that could have happened:

The measurement (wheel size) was not accurate.
You idled the magnet back and forth.

I think my max on a 24" was something like 12mph - completely
unsustainable, but with careful attention to not make the 2 errors
above.

It's just extremely tough to get speed out of a 20"

Somebody mention how the uphill, downhill, and cross-country muni races
were won on a 20" . . . 😕

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Ya it probably is wrong but when i entered it in it said the number for
my 20-1.75 tire was 152 cm. so i put in 152. The first time i rode with
it, my max speed was 9.8 mph, and it seemed like i was riding really
fast. But since the second time and onward it seems like a can reach 11
mph no problem. It seems like i was pedaling the same speed when i first
maxxed out at 9.8 and when i maxed at 14.2mph.

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I've been riding a 700 x 35 for over 6 months now and I'm anxious to
step-up to a 36" wheel.

Until about 6 weeks ago I was riding at least 10 miles every other day.
On several occasions I raced against the clock to see how much I could
increase my average speed. With 6 1/2" crank arms my best average was
8.6 mph with a momentary top speed of approximately 12+ mph. With a 5
1/2" crank my best average increased to 9.7 mph with a momentary top
speed of approximately 14 mph.

My longest ride on the 700 x 35 with the 5 1/2" cranks was 37.6 miles.
I completed the first 18+ miles in 2hrs 05 minutes and the second 18+ in
2hrs 15 minutes.

For a while I was riding a 700 x 28 100 psi tire which I don't think
benefited me much. The decrease in rolling resistance was cancelled out
by the decrease in tire diameter. A 700 x 45 tire had close to a 29"
diameter where the 700 x 28 tire had only a 26" diameter. I gave up the
700 x 28 when a blowout taco'd my rim. Not a fun experience while
riding on a busy road.

I've reached a point where I feel I can't go much farther on the 700c
because my knees are starting to feel "all spun out". I would like the
larger wheel for the increase in travel per pedal revolution to enable
me to increase my riding distances and average speed.

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ChangingLINKS.com said:

It sounds like (with my obsessive mindset) I could get to 12mph (using
65mm cranks and 700c wheel).

Beware, 65 mm makes for ultrashort cranks! They make the uni difficult
to ride. And in a sense you don't need them, as 12 mph is doable on
longer cranks. With 125's on my 29'er I've hit brief bouts of 22 km/h,
and cruising at about 17 km/h. (1 mile = 1.609 km). So indeed, for me,
125's wouldn't quite cut it for cruising at 12 mph, but I say try an
intermediate length, such as 102 mm.

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
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Sorry I didnt' pick up on this earlier as I didn't realise you were
referring to me in this thread :p BTW, I don't train, I just ride lot's.
It's more fun that way. Although before UNICON I did a fair bit of
'riding lot's'.

Ok, to clear things up, from memory the UNICON 10km went like this:
Yuta Ando 28" with 65mm cranks
Roger Davies 36" with 110mm cranks
Daiki Izumeda 28", crank length unknown- but they looked stubby
Ken Looi 36", 102mm cranks
There was a Japanese girl on a Coker as well- I think she slotted in
somewhere in that list.

The 10km didnt' go too well on me. I ate a Japanese noodle-sandwich a
day or two before- ended up running to the toilet all night with bad
stomach cramps and diarrhoea. It was really hot and humid as well which
didn't help, I was pretty dehydrated.

Anyway, I was in the lead for maybe 1-2km before going backwards
relative to the other guys. I think Yuta crashed on one of the turns
and Roger passed him, and then they tussled to the end until Roger
missed a turn and Yuta came through to win. I was lying about third
until I missed the final turn and Daiki passed me.

Whether Yuta could have won on a Coker- who knows. I'm sure he'd be
just as competitive. I did have a go on his Uni- it's certainly an
interesting thing to ride. It looks like you're making the faintest of
ankle movements, except you're speeding along at 25km/hr. It feels so
light...like there's nothing there. Takes getting used to, and I found
it tricky to turn and climb. But then I only rode it for a few hundred
meters. Yuta had a go on my Coker and didn't like it at all- said it
was too heavy and slow!

I think if you have a 28" or 29" it's definitely worth trying it out to
see if it suits your style of riding. After all, a pair of 65mm cranks
will set you back less than $50. A Coker sets you back over $1K

Ken

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My thoughts.

Sure, you could keep up, but you wouldn't be having as much fun. Your
coker friends will cruise casually and mindlessly, while you're spinning
like mad. You'd probably pass them up hills though (not with 65's) since
a 29er is much lighter.

I'd also think twice about getting cranks shorter than 125mm and
especially shorter than 102's. If I remember correctly, you have only a
KH24 with 170's. It seem that people that use very short cranks (esp
shorter than 125's) slowly work their way down. I think a 29er with
110's would bit of a rude awakening for you (never mind 65's).

Also, it would be good to have a 29er in your arsenal. With it, you
could do MUni rides that were less technical with more flow (For me, a
24" MUni is really only fun with somewhat technical riding), and road
rides wouldn't seem agonizingly slow.

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My thoughts.

Sure, you could keep up, but you wouldn't be having as much fun. Your
coker friends will cruise casually and mindlessly, while you're spinning
like mad. You'd probably pass them up hills though (not with 65's) since
a 29er is much lighter.

I'd also think twice about getting cranks shorter than 125mm and
especially shorter than 102's. If I remember correctly, you have only a
KH24 with 170's. It seem that people that use very short cranks (esp
shorter than 125's) slowly work their way down. I think a 29er with
110's would bit of a rude awakening for you (never mind 65's).

Also, it would be good to have a 29er in your arsenal. With it, you
could do MUni rides that were less technical with more flow (For me, a
24" MUni is really only fun with somewhat technical riding), and road
rides wouldn't seem agonizingly slow.

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Thanks for the additional posts. "I got all that."

NOW, I think is a bigger issue here than the 29".
The bigger issue is that THIS is the same race that the 24" were
*competitive* with the 36" and Foss' 29".

Aside from the fact that there was no drug testing, what alien gifts did
the 24" riders have to hold a 36"? My ultimate goal is to be able to
keep up with a 36".

<One reason I want to run a smaller wheel>
Attitude: I don't have to be "having fun." One thing that drew me to
unicycling was the challenge. Once I got to the level I was happy with,
I stopped riding. Fortunately, two days ago, onefiftyfour and I found a
new trail next to his house that makes the other trails we ride seem
like paved road. As I write this, I am having difficulty walking. There
was so much climbing, that I "destroyed" my thighs. Sometimes, it
appears as though I am slipping (and going to fall backwards) as I
quickly take weight off of the strained quad. The cool part is that I
didn't know how much pain I would be in later during the ride. I was
"hurting" from the 90+ degree heat, and muscles were tired, but it was
my entire body (rather than just my quads). I'm going to get back on
that trail again as soon as I heal. It made a beginner out of me.
Onefiftyfour was able to do the climbing and the heat about like he does
Emma Long in 75 degrees. I just don't understand where that climbing
strength he has comes from - or why he doesn't overheat like I do. He is
"ready." By the way, for those that know, he also rode up Jester Hill
non-stop AFTERWARDS. I was very strong about halfway and then went into
deep exhaustion.
So, the struggling, frustrating, fearful, exhausting and painful but
overall safe ride is what I'm looking for. Makes the 24" a good match
for me.
</One reason I want to run a smaller wheel>

I know this thread was originally about 700cm wheels, however, since it
was the same race, I would like those that were there to decribe what
they thought about the 24" riders and their equipment.

(Right now, I am thinking about a 26" rim with a racing tire and 102"
cranks to slap into my current setup - which by weld has a low seat
height)

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Thanks for the additional posts. "I got all that."

NOW, I think is a bigger issue here than the 29".
The bigger issue is that THIS is the same race that the 24" were
*competitive* with the 36" and Foss' 29".

Aside from the fact that there was no drug testing, what alien gifts did
the 24" riders have to hold a 36"? My ultimate goal is to be able to
keep up with a 36".

<One reason I want to run a smaller wheel>
Attitude: I don't have to be "having fun." One thing that drew me to
unicycling was the challenge. Once I got to the level I was happy with,
I stopped riding. Fortunately, two days ago, onefiftyfour and I found a
new trail next to his house that makes the other trails we ride seem
like paved road. As I write this, I am having difficulty walking. There
was so much climbing, that I "destroyed" my thighs. Sometimes, it
appears as though I am slipping (and going to fall backwards) as I
quickly take weight off of the strained quad. The cool part is that I
didn't know how much pain I would be in later during the ride. I was
"hurting" from the 90+ degree heat, and muscles were tired, but it was
my entire body (rather than just my quads). I'm going to get back on
that trail again as soon as I heal. It made a beginner out of me.
Onefiftyfour was able to do the climbing and the heat about like he does
Emma Long in 75 degrees. I just don't understand where that climbing
strength he has comes from - or why he doesn't overheat like I do. He is
"ready." By the way, for those that know, he also rode up Jester Hill
non-stop AFTERWARDS. I was very strong about halfway and then went into
deep exhaustion.
So, the struggling, frustrating, fearful, exhausting and painful but
overall safe ride is what I'm looking for. Makes the 24" a good match
for me.
</One reason I want to run a smaller wheel>

I know this thread was originally about 700cm wheels, however, since it
was the same race, I would like those that were there to decribe what
they thought about the 24" riders and their equipment.

(Right now, I am thinking about a 26" rim with a racing tire and 102"
cranks to slap into my current setup - which by weld has a low seat
height)

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ChangingLINKS.com said:

*

I know this thread was originally about 700cm wheels, however, since
it was the same race, I would like those that were there to decribe
what they thought about the 24" riders and their equipment.

*

Little kids that pedal really fast.

24" will not be competitive in the Unlimited class, no matter how short
your cranks are. I don't think many of the riders in the top 10 were
using 24" Uni's.

28" yes, but only because a Coker so much heavier than a 28" that you
can't put *really* cranks on and expect to rev it up to the same degree.
The future will probably be in having short cranks on a lightweight
geared 28" Uni.

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ChangingLINKS.com said:

*

I know this thread was originally about 700cm wheels, however, since
it was the same race, I would like those that were there to decribe
what they thought about the 24" riders and their equipment.

*

Little kids that pedal really fast.

24" will not be competitive in the Unlimited class, no matter how short
your cranks are. I don't think many of the riders in the top 10 were
using 24" Uni's.

28" yes, but only because a Coker so much heavier than a 28" that you
can't put *really* cranks on and expect to rev it up to the same degree.
The future will probably be in having short cranks on a lightweight
geared 28" Uni.

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GizmoDuck said:

*
28" yes, but only because a Coker is so much heavier than a 28" that
you can't put *really* cranks on and expect to rev it up to the same
degree. *

This is interesting, because one vcersion of "received wisdom" is that
29s are much faster than 28s, not because of the extra inch (only 3%),
but because the extra weight makes them less vulnerable to minor
obstacles and blemishes in the ground. This is the argument that makes
Cokers fast because of their momentum and "rollover factor".

However, after today's ride, when I put 102s back on the 28, I found
that I had the confidence to spin fast, and I think this was partly
because I wasn't afraid of the unstoppable momentum, because the 28 is
so light. Also, if you tip forwards and need to accelerate, a wheel
with less inertia may be easier to accelerate. (On the other hand, if
the wheel has mnore inertia, instead of it accelerating, you'll push
yourself back upright, by Newtons 3rd (?) law.)

This interests me very much, as one of my pipe dreams is a superlight
28, with an aero rim, and something like a 22mm tyre, light seat, short
cranks and light pedals. It might be impractical, but it'd be sooooo
elegant.

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GizmoDuck said:

*
28" yes, but only because a Coker is so much heavier than a 28" that
you can't put *really* cranks on and expect to rev it up to the same
degree. *

This is interesting, because one vcersion of "received wisdom" is that
29s are much faster than 28s, not because of the extra inch (only 3%),
but because the extra weight makes them less vulnerable to minor
obstacles and blemishes in the ground. This is the argument that makes
Cokers fast because of their momentum and "rollover factor".

However, after today's ride, when I put 102s back on the 28, I found
that I had the confidence to spin fast, and I think this was partly
because I wasn't afraid of the unstoppable momentum, because the 28 is
so light. Also, if you tip forwards and need to accelerate, a wheel
with less inertia may be easier to accelerate. (On the other hand, if
the wheel has mnore inertia, instead of it accelerating, you'll push
yourself back upright, by Newtons 3rd (?) law.)

This interests me very much, as one of my pipe dreams is a superlight
28, with an aero rim, and something like a 22mm tyre, light seat, short
cranks and light pedals. It might be impractical, but it'd be sooooo
elegant.

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Mikefule said:

*This is interesting, because one vcersion of "received wisdom" is
that 29s are much faster than 28s, not because of the extra inch (only
3%), but because the extra weight makes them less vulnerable to minor
obstacles and blemishes in the ground. This is the argument that
makes Cokers fast because of their momentum and "rollover factor".

However, after today's ride, when I put 102s back on the 28, I found
that I had the confidence to spin fast, and I think this was partly
because I wasn't afraid of the unstoppable momentum, because the 28 is
so light. Also, if you tip forwards and need to accelerate, a wheel
with less inertia may be easier to accelerate. (On the other hand, if
the wheel has mnore inertia, instead of it accelerating, you'll push
yourself back upright, by Newtons 3rd (?) law.)

This interests me very much, as one of my pipe dreams is a superlight
28, with an aero rim, and something like a 22mm tyre, light seat,
short cranks and light pedals. It might be impractical, but it'd be
sooooo elegant. *

Hi Mike,

I think you're right to a degree. I haven't ridden a 28" enough to
comment on how well it performs on uneven ground. I think on flat
smooth ground the 'cruise' factor is not so great, so a Coker and 29"
has less advantage over a 28" (hence why the Cokers lost out to the 28"
at UNICON).

The extra weight of the Coker definitely impedes your ability to shorten
cranks in order to spin faster. I doubt I would have gone faster on
shorter cranks than the 102mm. In fact, I'm sure I would have gone
slower because I would not have the power to spin it as fast.

Even a relatively small weight change makes a difference. When I
changed my Coker over to Tommy Miller spokes (dropped about 200g), it
was faster because I could spin slightly shorter cranks, and when I went
tubeless (dropped another 200g) I used shorter cranks still.
Essentially, on the flat I can spin 100mm cranks now; whereas I would
have been using 125's with my original Coker. There would have been no
advantage to 100s on a Stock Coker because I would not have the leverage
to spin it any faster than I could spin 125s, but now I can with a
lighter Coker wheel.

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Mikefule said:

*This is interesting, because one vcersion of "received wisdom" is
that 29s are much faster than 28s, not because of the extra inch (only
3%), but because the extra weight makes them less vulnerable to minor
obstacles and blemishes in the ground. This is the argument that
makes Cokers fast because of their momentum and "rollover factor".

However, after today's ride, when I put 102s back on the 28, I found
that I had the confidence to spin fast, and I think this was partly
because I wasn't afraid of the unstoppable momentum, because the 28 is
so light. Also, if you tip forwards and need to accelerate, a wheel
with less inertia may be easier to accelerate. (On the other hand, if
the wheel has mnore inertia, instead of it accelerating, you'll push
yourself back upright, by Newtons 3rd (?) law.)

This interests me very much, as one of my pipe dreams is a superlight
28, with an aero rim, and something like a 22mm tyre, light seat,
short cranks and light pedals. It might be impractical, but it'd be
sooooo elegant. *

Hi Mike,

I think you're right to a degree. I haven't ridden a 28" enough to
comment on how well it performs on uneven ground. I think on flat
smooth ground the 'cruise' factor is not so great, so a Coker and 29"
has less advantage over a 28" (hence why the Cokers lost out to the 28"
at UNICON).

The extra weight of the Coker definitely impedes your ability to shorten
cranks in order to spin faster. I doubt I would have gone faster on
shorter cranks than the 102mm. In fact, I'm sure I would have gone
slower because I would not have the power to spin it as fast.

Even a relatively small weight change makes a difference. When I
changed my Coker over to Tommy Miller spokes (dropped about 200g), it
was faster because I could spin slightly shorter cranks, and when I went
tubeless (dropped another 200g) I used shorter cranks still.
Essentially, on the flat I can spin 100mm cranks now; whereas I would
have been using 125's with my original Coker. There would have been no
advantage to 100s on a Stock Coker because I would not have the leverage
to spin it any faster than I could spin 125s, but now I can with a
lighter Coker wheel.

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That race was hard (super hot and humid). I was on a Coker with 125mm
cranks - way too long for the course. 110 or 102 would be my preferred
length. But it was a borrowed cycle thanks to Jack Halpern and I am not
complaining.

It sure was amazing at the start following a group of young Japanese
girls on 24" wheels with super-short cranks. I was waiting and waiting
for them to slow down so I could just pass. They never did! And we were
going 16.5mph consistently for the first couple of km. On the first
"downhill", very gentle, maybe 25' of descent, I managed to get up to
18mph or so and pass them. But spinning that big heavy stock wheel,
sweating like a pig, I was not able to hold them all off for the rest of
the way.

Anyway, lighter is better, and a lightened Coker wheel (lighter spokes
and tube) helps with speed. I am not much interested in how to make a 24
or 29 inch cycle go faster...

---Nathan

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That race was hard (super hot and humid). I was on a Coker with 125mm
cranks - way too long for the course. 110 or 102 would be my preferred
length. But it was a borrowed cycle thanks to Jack Halpern and I am not
complaining.

It sure was amazing at the start following a group of young Japanese
girls on 24" wheels with super-short cranks. I was waiting and waiting
for them to slow down so I could just pass. They never did! And we were
going 16.5mph consistently for the first couple of km. On the first
"downhill", very gentle, maybe 25' of descent, I managed to get up to
18mph or so and pass them. But spinning that big heavy stock wheel,
sweating like a pig, I was not able to hold them all off for the rest of
the way.

Anyway, lighter is better, and a lightened Coker wheel (lighter spokes
and tube) helps with speed. I am not much interested in how to make a 24
or 29 inch cycle go faster...

---Nathan

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Oh I missed this thread as well...

The UNICON race was interesting. I am always slow starting and with the
way the Japanise had set the race by putting all of there Japanise
riders at the front in stead of seeding them which may have been
sensible for a race like this caused a few problems. (something for the
rules committee possibly?) Both me and Ken were about 20m back from the
front, so it took a bit of time to get past everyone to the front.
Actually I don't know how ken got there so fast.... I guess age helps
here. I do seam to take a long time go get up to my cruising speed.

One of the interesting things was at the end of the course at the turn
around point was a slight hill. I gained about 20m on everyone at that
point and took the lead. The short crank 28" just did not seam to climb
well. I then kept the lead all the way to near the end of the last lap
where I miss understood the finishing point (as ken did - I think this
was a language thing).

The 28's had one advantage over me (and the other Cokerheads), they had
a big body to slipstream behind, definately an advantage in a race were
you are riding close to same speed and tactics can make the difference -
what I don't think has been mentioned about that day was the horrendious
wind!

It was also interesting the condition of the 28" riders, they were
really spent at the end of the race. I was tired, but within a few
minutes I was ready to go again (and did). Makes me think that it is
probably harder keeping that speed up on the lighter wheels.

Hmmm was fun day though. Sort of wish I had gone all out in the second
race, but was being a gentleman and helping my friend around the
course.

Roger

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Many good points have been made here about fast unicycles.

Then I thought that having a super fast 28 wouldn't be as much fun as my
coker. I like being high up and the 'limo effect' of the big wheel
flying over the bumps. Different folks different strokes..

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Bob22b said:

*Many good points have been made here about fast unicycles.

Then I thought that having a super fast 28 wouldn't be as much fun as
my coker. I like being high up and the 'limo effect' of the big wheel
flying over the bumps. Different folks different strokes.. *

Yeah. . . I have "M-uni" blinders . . .
In other words, I don't think anything of having to work "too hard" to
get from point A to point B. Usually, the more "uncomfortable" I am the
better the trail.

/just rode 10 paved miles on a 24"

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