631 for touring frame

[dubwoy]

Now that 531 st has been phased out, ive been advised that the way to go is with 631 reynolds instead, apparently stronger joints due to the air hardening properties of the tube, and it is strainger and slightly lighter than the 5321. Im having it made for a pan am. ride onto a 26in wheel with sloping top tube for more rigidity. Does anyone know if it is suitable or have any information on the topic.
Cheers.

 

[pharoutman]

Originally posted by dubwoy
Now that 531 st has been phased out, ive been advised that the way to go is with 631 reynolds instead, apparently stronger joints due to the air hardening properties of the tube, and it is strainger and slightly lighter than the 5321. Im having it made for a pan am. ride onto a 26in wheel with sloping top tube for more rigidity. Does anyone know if it is suitable or have any information on the topic.
Cheers.

heres a link

http://www.reynoldsusa.com/tubing/tubing.html

 

[daveornee]

Originally posted by dubwoy
Now that 531 st has been phased out, ive been advised that the way to go is with 631 reynolds instead, apparently stronger joints due to the air hardening properties of the tube, and it is strainger and slightly lighter than the 5321. Im having it made for a pan am. ride onto a 26in wheel with sloping top tube for more rigidity. Does anyone know if it is suitable or have any information on the topic.
Cheers.

Suitable? Yes, but why not go all the way to 853?
See the Reynolds site at URL:
http://www.reynolds-cycle.com/internet/us/tech/ustech.htm
853 is stiffer and stronger than 653 for the same weight.

 

[darkboong]

Most of the frame-builders I talked to about this were quite happy to build me an 853 frame but recomended 631. The reason given was that a 631 frame will have a little more "give" in it (ie: it's less rigid) which will be more comfy over a long ride.

My idea of a touring bike appears to be a bit whackol though. I've put put together an Audax style 631 frame with 700x23s. That kind of setup seemed to be *normal* way back when I first started touring in the mid 80s.

All that said, one of the nicest touring bikes I ever rode had a 753 frame with some really exotic *racing* rims sporting Dura Ace groupset and 700x20s ! I do recall thinking that I wouldn't be too keen on doing 100 miles a day on that tho.

 

[daveornee]

Originally posted by darkboong
Most of the frame-builders I talked to about this were quite happy to build me an 853 frame but recomended 631. The reason given was that a 631 frame will have a little more "give" in it (ie: it's less rigid) which will be more comfy over a long ride.

My idea of a touring bike appears to be a bit whackol though. I've put put together an Audax style 631 frame with 700x23s. That kind of setup seemed to be *normal* way back when I first started touring in the mid 80s.

All that said, one of the nicest touring bikes I ever rode had a 753 frame with some really exotic *racing* rims sporting Dura Ace groupset and 700x20s ! I do recall thinking that I wouldn't be too keen on doing 100 miles a day on that tho.

Skinny tires and touring don't mix.
I think the idea of more frame "give" doesn't belong in a touring bicycle either.
If you are doing loaded touring you need stability and stiffness.
You can easily adust the give with fatter tires and lower inflation.
If you want comfort and stability without the full touring load, I suggest you look at a bicycle like Co-Motion "Nor"Wester at:
http://www.co-motion.com/norwester.html
If you want additional load carrying capacity for full loaded touring, I suggest you look at a bicycle like Co-Motion Americano:
http://www.co-motion.com/Amerc.html
Waterford Precision Adventure Cycle, T14, Bruce Gordon's bicycles are all worth consideration for touring.

 

[darkboong]

Originally posted by daveornee
Skinny tires and touring don't mix.

That's the weird thing though, I've done thousands of miles on 28s and 23s and I've been very happy with it.

I have a "love worn" Panaracer Touring II 700x28 tire out in the shed, it has done over 12,000 miles without a single puncture, and no issues with grip either. Anyone know of a similar replacement, I'm buggered if I can find anything like them that will last beyond 1000 miles.

I think the idea of more frame "give" doesn't belong in a touring bicycle either.

The stiffness argument didn't entirely convince me, because as you said you want the thing to be rigid under load. Besides you can probably do far more with tire pressures and weight distribution.

In practice all of the issues I've had with the bike feeling wobbly underneath me have stemmed from the rack and the fixings of the panniers. It does not matter how rigid your frame is if you have 30+ kilos moving around on the back of the bike.

 

[daveornee]

Originally posted by darkboong
That's the weird thing though, I've done thousands of miles on 28s and 23s and I've been very happy with it.

I have a "love worn" Panaracer Touring II 700x28 tire out in the shed, it has done over 12,000 miles without a single puncture, and no issues with grip either. Anyone know of a similar replacement, I'm buggered if I can find anything like them that will last beyond 1000 miles.



The stiffness argument didn't entirely convince me, because as you said you want the thing to be rigid under load. Besides you can probably do far more with tire pressures and weight distribution.

In practice all of the issues I've had with the bike feeling wobbly underneath me have stemmed from the rack and the fixings of the panniers. It does not matter how rigid your frame is if you have 30+ kilos moving around on the back of the bike.

I am stating my opinions based on my experinces. I have been riding for 50 years and done over 100,000 miles of touring.
When I addressed tire size I was talking about 20 and 23 being too skinny for my loaded touring.
I agree that rigid sturdy racks properly installed to a stiff frame and fork, with panniers tightly fixed, will aid not only taking out the wobbles, but also make the touring experience less tiring.

If you want something close to what you had with the Panaracer Toruing II 700Cx28, take a look at the RuffyTuffy at Rivendell:
http://rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/tires_tubes/10043.html
They are made by Panaracer.
I've ridden the Northern Tier and back (~7,000 miles) on these, and there are miles left on the front tire.
I have 6,500 miles on Avocet DuroPlus but they are 700C X 32.
Avocet makes Duro in 700C X 28. I would expect them to wear well and ride well. See what I am talking about at:
http://www.avocet.com/tirepages/carbon12_specs.html
We ride the Panaracer Tandem tires on our 700C tandem. They are wearing well. I think they are 700C X 32.

 

[darkboong]

Originally posted by daveornee
I am stating my opinions based on my experinces. I have been riding for 50 years and done over 100,000 miles of touring.

Heh, god forbid that I tell you how to set up your bike. Wouldn't dream of it.

When I addressed tire size I was talking about 20 and 23 being too skinny for my loaded touring.

I do draw the line at x20s, and my bike has spent the vast majority of its luggage carrying days sporting x28s. I do like riding the bike unencumbered though, so x23s suit me providing I'm not going to pile 30+kg on the back of it.

If you want something close to what you had with the Panaracer Toruing II 700Cx28, take a look at the RuffyTuffy at Rivendell:
http://rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/tires_tubes/10043.html
They are made by Panaracer.

Fantastic ! They look like just the ticket, thank you ! I figured I must have been looking in the wrong places, been away from touring for a long time. I miss it a lot.