60-miler

kramer said:

Actually, saddle time is the PROBLEM right now..... Anything over an hour
and I get really sore, lol....

Perhaps some biking shorts would help in that area...

Dane Jackson said:

Quoted message said:

THE LESSER-KNOWN PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #17: SARTRE

Named after the late existential philosopher, SARTRE is an extremely
unstructured language. Statements in SARTRE have no purpose; they

just are.

Quoted message said:

Thus SARTRE programs are left to define their own functions. SARTRE
programmers tend to be boring and depressed, and are no fun at

parties.

Are you referring to the philosophy of Jean-Paul Sartre? Is there
really a programming language called Sartre? Call me stupid, but I
really want to know? Jean-Paul Sartre is bizarre.

Things are bad! Things are very bad: I have it, the filth, the Nausea.

WEIRD!!!!

It's all good?
Maggie

On 26 Apr 2005 04:13:17 -0700, "Maggie" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Are you referring to the philosophy of Jean-Paul Sartre? Is there
really a programming language called Sartre?

Methinks it might be a spoof of the genuine programming language
Pascal, after the French mathematician Blaise Pascal.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

I should mention that this is in addition to lifting weights twice a
week....

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

kramer said:

Actually, saddle time is the PROBLEM right now..... Anything over an

hour

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and I get really sore, lol.... But really, I am doing this or exercise

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

does an hour ride 4-5 times a week at 13-15 MPH do me some good for

keeping

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trim? Or should I have a diff. approach?

Certainly, over time, riding this amount (5 hours/wk) will start to make
you noticeably fitter in about a year or so, but the bike is so efficient
that it won't do a lot to help your 'trim'-ness. IMO, you should aim to

get

Quoted message said:

about 14-15 hours/week for a good beginner's goal, based on what I've read
from Chris Carmichael.

My sense is you only start significantly decreasing bodyfat % when you get
up to the level of riding (rough guess) about 15 hours or more a week at
reasonable intensity. However there are lots of people who ride their bike
90min a day who are still 30-50 or more, pounds overweight - but they're
usually not gaining weight, either. IOW, you shouldn't expect to start
pigging out at Mickey-D's just because you're riding 70miles a week at
13mph.

I start to notice some decrease in body fat when I'm riding at least 160
miles per week, diet remaining about the same (no sugar, white carbs,
etc.). The extra riding does tend to cut my appetite a little in the hour
pre- and post ride, and I tend to eat 'cleaner' when I'm riding a lot.
ymmv.

jj

kramer said:

"Dane Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hey, you're on the bike. That's the first and most important step. If

all

Quoted message said:

you do is just do some hour rides every week that would be great. But,
cycling is addictive. I predict more saddle time in your future. 😉

Actually, saddle time is the PROBLEM right now..... Anything over an hour
and I get really sore, lol.... But really, I am doing this or exercise and
does an hour ride 4-5 times a week at 13-15 MPH do me some good for keeping
trim? Or should I have a diff. approach?

Well, some of this could be just adjusting to riding. Assuming your
saddle is decent and your fit is okay, it will take about two weeks
of riding for your 'seat' to adjust to cycling. If you're having
severe pain or it continues, you should really look into adjusting
your position of the bike so you are more comfortable.

Any bike riding is good for keeping trim. As to how much or how little
that depends on your goals. Are you 100 pounds overweight and trying
to get down to what you consider a healthier, better weight? [1] Or are
you just trying to maintain your current body shape/fitness?

The absolute best thing you can do is to make it part of your regular
life. As with so much else in life, consistency is more important than
magnitude. I seriously recommend investigating bike commuting.

How far do you live from work?

[1] This is where I started.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Chapter 1

The story so far:

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot
of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams

jj said:

On 26 Apr 2005 07:41:50 -0700, "SlowRider" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

To a certain extent I concur, but I would hesitate to tell a beginner
to put in 14-15 hours per week -- it sounds like a recipe for
over-training. In fact, that doesn't sound like a beginner to me,
unless you're talking about someone starting a criterium/road racing
career.

I don't think I said this. I said don't expect weight loss from riding
until you're riding at that level. An advanced rider could probably lose
weight on less if they were riding at above 20mph for the majority of their
rides.

I really don't think this is true. In fact I have the charts to disprove
it for my particular case. The weeks/months where I have the most saddle
time are rarely the times I lost weight. With that much exercise being
done, my body demanded food. With more moderate exercise, my appetite
was more moderate, and I tended to lose the most weight during these
periods.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
When the speaker and he to whom he is speaks do not understand, that is
metaphysics.
-- Voltaire

Just zis Guy said:

On 26 Apr 2005 04:13:17 -0700, "Maggie" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Are you referring to the philosophy of Jean-Paul Sartre? Is there
really a programming language called Sartre?

Methinks it might be a spoof of the genuine programming language
Pascal, after the French mathematician Blaise Pascal.

You would be correct. Pascal is a good teaching language, certainly
it teaches better habits than BASIC, which is what used to be used for
that purpose frequently. I don't know what they're using these days,
probabably Java. *shudder*

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"In Java, everything is an object! Oh...except for the basic types,
you need to use object wrappers for those." - Anonymous Coward on /.

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:29:27 -0700, "kramer" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I should mention that this is in addition to lifting weights twice a
week....

Why?

Lifting weights is probably the perfect "cross training" activity for
cycling.

I thought it was gardening.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky

Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

"kramer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Commuting to work is difficult for a few reasons. It is about 15 miles
away, and we get our fair share of rain in the Northwest.

I also live about 15 miles away, and I live in the Pacific Northwest. In
fact, you'll find a goodly number of people on rbm in the Pacific NW. Where
exactly do you live? Maybe some folks can give you advice as to routes,
shower facilities near your workplace, etc.

Quoted message said:

Also, I have two
young children who go to Grandma'a on my way to work.

At worst, you drive your kids to Grandma's, and then ride from there.

Quoted message said:

And as an architect,
it would be difficult to maintain a professional appearance without the

use

Quoted message said:

of some shower type facilities which are not avail. for me.

This is not a problem at all. Although I do have the benefit of shower
facilities where I work, when I bicycle to other locations, such as
workshops and conferences, where showers are not available, I am able to
maintain a professional appearance, including a suit, stupid pointy shoes
and panty hose. It just takes some planning.

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, I
do a lot of driving to meetings, job sites, etc and my office is not
somewhere where I would like to leave a car overnight.

Every day?

Quoted message said:

And if you add up the last paragraph you will see that my kids and my job
require much of my time and just to get 5 hours in a week is really at the
cost of neglecting my wife....lol.

The reason why I originally took up bike commuting this last time was
because I had small children. (They are no longer so small.) I didn't want
to spend time at work, and then spend time away from them further while I
was down at the Y. By combining commuting and exercising, I was able to
minimize the time my kids were supervised by others.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky

Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Dane Jackson said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think I said this. I said don't expect weight loss from

riding

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

until you're riding at that level. An advanced rider could probably

lose

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weight on less if they were riding at above 20mph for the majority

of their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rides.

I really don't think this is true. In fact I have the charts to

disprove

Quoted message said:

it for my particular case. The weeks/months where I have the most

saddle

Quoted message said:

time are rarely the times I lost weight. With that much exercise

being

Quoted message said:

done, my body demanded food. With more moderate exercise, my

appetite

Quoted message said:

was more moderate, and I tended to lose the most weight during these
periods.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
When the speaker and he to whom he is speaks do not understand, that

is

Quoted message said:

metaphysics.
-- Voltaire

The motto of the group I ride with is something like "we ride to eat"
So, in one sense I'll agree that often a hard ride "earns" the rider
some extra calories. But there is little doubt that hard training burns
more calories than moderate training. So, if one wants to lose weight
hard traing is more efficient.
My own experience has been that during periods of very hard training I
lose weight no matter how much it seems I eat. For me it seems that
when I train very hard my appetite actually moderates and the delta
between calories in and calories burned is at its max.

gds said:

Dane Jackson said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think I said this. I said don't expect weight loss from

riding

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

until you're riding at that level. An advanced rider could probably

lose

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weight on less if they were riding at above 20mph for the majority

of their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rides.

I really don't think this is true. In fact I have the charts to

disprove

Quoted message said:

it for my particular case. The weeks/months where I have the most

saddle

Quoted message said:

time are rarely the times I lost weight. With that much exercise

being

Quoted message said:

done, my body demanded food. With more moderate exercise, my

appetite

Quoted message said:

was more moderate, and I tended to lose the most weight during these
periods.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
When the speaker and he to whom he is speaks do not understand, that

is

Quoted message said:

metaphysics.
-- Voltaire

The motto of the group I ride with is something like "we ride to eat"
So, in one sense I'll agree that often a hard ride "earns" the rider
some extra calories. But there is little doubt that hard training burns
more calories than moderate training. So, if one wants to lose weight
hard traing is more efficient.
My own experience has been that during periods of very hard training I
lose weight no matter how much it seems I eat. For me it seems that
when I train very hard my appetite actually moderates and the delta
between calories in and calories burned is at its max.

I have to agree that the hard riding will burn more calories. I went on
a longish 60+ mile ride on Monday but took about 8 hours to do it what
with stopping to talk with people, sit on the grass and eat, and
generally goof off. Sure I burned calories but I probably ate more. For
calorie burning I do either a 6 mile speed run or a 12 mile one,
stopping at home and drinking cold water once each lap. A ten minute
cool down and then another fast ride, repeated all day, burns more
calories than the longer slower rides and never gets me far enough that
I can't walk a broken bike back.
Works for me.
Bill Baka

jj said:

Dane Jackson said:

jj said:

I don't think I said this. I said don't expect weight loss from riding
until you're riding at that level. An advanced rider could probably lose
weight on less if they were riding at above 20mph for the majority of their
rides.

I really don't think this is true. In fact I have the charts to disprove
it for my particular case. The weeks/months where I have the most saddle
time are rarely the times I lost weight. With that much exercise being
done, my body demanded food. With more moderate exercise, my appetite
was more moderate, and I tended to lose the most weight during these
periods.

What are you disputing? You're talking saddle time, and I'm suggesting that
a harder shorter workout might do more to help one lose weight -if- they
are trying to lose weight.

It just seems like poor advice to be giving someone who just started
back into cycling. Yes you're going to burn more calories if you ride
higher/faster. But it's daft to be telling someone they have to be
riding 20 mph to see any results. Yes, he should try and put a good
amount of effort into it. But maybe starting out 13mph for his
condition in his terrain is appropriate.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
I am professionally trained in computer science, which is to say
(in all seriousness) that I am extremely poorly educated.
-- Joseph Weizenbaum, "Computer Power and Human Reason"

Quoted message said:

Well, some of this could be just adjusting to riding. Assuming your
saddle is decent and your fit is okay, it will take about two weeks
of riding for your 'seat' to adjust to cycling. If you're having
severe pain or it continues, you should really look into adjusting
your position of the bike so you are more comfortable.

Any bike riding is good for keeping trim. As to how much or how little
that depends on your goals. Are you 100 pounds overweight and trying
to get down to what you consider a healthier, better weight? [1] Or are
you just trying to maintain your current body shape/fitness?

The absolute best thing you can do is to make it part of your regular
life. As with so much else in life, consistency is more important than
magnitude. I seriously recommend investigating bike commuting.

How far do you live from work?

I am just looking to lose 10 pounds really. I haven't been able to shed
these love handles in years.

Commuting to work is difficult for a few reasons. It is about 15 miles
away, and we get our fair share of rain in the Northwest. Also, I have two
young children who go to Grandma'a on my way to work. And as an architect,
it would be difficult to maintain a professional appearance without the use
of some shower type facilities which are not avail. for me. Furthermore, I
do alot of driving to meetings, job sites, etc and my office is not
somewhere where I would like to leave a car overnight. (I know, excuses are
easy to come by)

And if you add up the last paragraph you will see that my kids and my job
require much of my time and just to get 5 hours in a week is really at the
cost of neglecting my wife....lol.

"kramer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually, saddle time is the PROBLEM right now..... Anything over an

hour

Quoted message said:

and I get really sore, lol.... But really, I am doing this or exercise

and

Quoted message said:

does an hour ride 4-5 times a week at 13-15 MPH do me some good for

keeping

Quoted message said:

trim? Or should I have a diff. approach?

The best approach is whatever works for you. Bike riding should be fun,
make it a chore and you'll find reasons to not ride. I like the 1 hr rides,
just to get out and get some air exercise. I also like long solo
excursions into the countryside, although you need to work up to those
distances. We have fast-paced group "fitness" rides around here a few times
a week. These are probably the most fun and the most challenging. It took
me about a year of steady riding before I could keep up though. I found
that I was able to drop 10% of my body weight and keep it off after I
started cycling (~10 years ago). I probably do 100 mi/wk, but that's at a
pretty high exertion level. I didn't start out that hard...

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

kramer said:

I should mention that this is in addition to lifting weights twice a
week....

Why?

Lifting weights is probably the perfect "cross training" activity for
cycling.

Claire Petersky said:

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:29:27 -0700, "kramer" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>I should mention that this is in addition to lifting weights twice a
>week....

Why?

Lifting weights is probably the perfect "cross training" activity for
cycling.

I thought it was gardening.

It's also napping, which I try to do for at least an hour in the afternoon
after riding.

jj

kramer said:

I should mention that this is in addition to lifting weights twice a
week....

Why?

jj

Dane Jackson said:

jj said:

Dane Jackson said:

jj <[email hidden]> wrote:

>I don't think I said this. I said don't expect weight loss from riding
>until you're riding at that level. An advanced rider could probably lose
>weight on less if they were riding at above 20mph for the majority of their
>rides.

I really don't think this is true. In fact I have the charts to disprove
it for my particular case. The weeks/months where I have the most saddle
time are rarely the times I lost weight. With that much exercise being
done, my body demanded food. With more moderate exercise, my appetite
was more moderate, and I tended to lose the most weight during these
periods.

What are you disputing? You're talking saddle time, and I'm suggesting that
a harder shorter workout might do more to help one lose weight -if- they
are trying to lose weight.

It just seems like poor advice to be giving someone who just started
back into cycling. Yes you're going to burn more calories if you ride
higher/faster. But it's daft to be telling someone they have to be
riding 20 mph to see any results. Yes, he should try and put a good
amount of effort into it. But maybe starting out 13mph for his
condition in his terrain is appropriate.

I can lose weight at 13-15 MPH for hours on end or 20 until I run out of
legs, which is not hours on end. Either way beats the hell out of
sitting on a couch with a remote in one hand and a beer in the other. A
century takes me from 6.5 hours (in summer shape) to 9 or ten (winter
shape, and some goofing off). At least I am on the bike and without a
television to waste time on. I am not racing anyone but myself.
Bill Baka

Peter Cole said:

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

kramer said:

I should mention that this is in addition to lifting weights twice a
week....

Why?

Lifting weights is probably the perfect "cross training" activity for
cycling.

I have to agree on the weight lifting since my muscles seem to be
migrating to my legs. The muscle mass goes where it is needed, no
excuses, so you need to do something more strenuous than holding the
handlebars, or in my case, sometimes a death grip on a rocky downhill.
Muscles need work, they are not self maintaining. Atrophy exists, period.
Bill Baka

Dane Jackson said:

jj said:

On 26 Apr 2005 07:41:50 -0700, "SlowRider" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

To a certain extent I concur, but I would hesitate to tell a beginner
to put in 14-15 hours per week -- it sounds like a recipe for
over-training. In fact, that doesn't sound like a beginner to me,
unless you're talking about someone starting a criterium/road racing
career.

I don't think I said this. I said don't expect weight loss from riding
until you're riding at that level. An advanced rider could probably lose
weight on less if they were riding at above 20mph for the majority of their
rides.

I really don't think this is true. In fact I have the charts to disprove
it for my particular case. The weeks/months where I have the most saddle
time are rarely the times I lost weight. With that much exercise being
done, my body demanded food. With more moderate exercise, my appetite
was more moderate, and I tended to lose the most weight during these
periods.

What are you disputing? You're talking saddle time, and I'm suggesting that
a harder shorter workout might do more to help one lose weight -if- they
are trying to lose weight.

The reason might be that after 80minutes riding about as hard as you can
the metabolism may stay elevated after the ride.

Riding for two hours at 12mph on the flats is a lot of saddle time, but I
doubt it burns as many calories on the bike or afterwards.

jj