10sp vs 9sp Question

53-11 said:

I was suprised when I read somewhere how abundant this stuff is in the environment.

It's there, but you need to throw away an equal mass of magnesium and a whole bunch of energy to extract it.

I'm 37 and can afford any bicycle made. Which is why I ride Ti and not a [censored] alum bike made out of recycled Coors Light cans.

[censored] [censored] ant.

JohnO said:

So daddy did buy you that titanium frame?

I guess someone fell for that line of hooey after all.

Yeah tested in the lab under ideal conditions... not in use in the real world... to fail and kill people.

alienator said:

I guess those CF compressor blades for jet engines that were tested in a lab in which I worked and that showed superior performance were really just stealthy harbingers of disaster.

el Inglés said:

Titanium is a great material but it´s difficult to work with - the tubes don´t break but I´ve seen a couple with busted welds - that´s what makes them expensive , titanium is one of the commonest minerals on earth , you know those pure white beaches ? well the ones that are not coral sand ( and most aren´t ) are titanium dioxide .
ps I´ve also seen carbon frames come unglued as well .

ore has to be refined to get titanium dioxide, it's not a naturally occuring compound

IronDonut

Are you mad at the world or just people with a different opinion than your own?

Did a Coors light can harm you in some Way?

Since you have enough money to buy any bike made, you should buy a large quantity of valium. You need it!

Your love affair with titanium does not extend to everyone else. Last year I was riding with a group of so-called "experts". We were going downhill about 50 kmh when a rider on a Litespeed titanium frame suddenly pulled over. His top tube and down tube both bent when he hit a compression in the road. My "recycled Coors Light can" aluminum bike went through the compression without a problem.

Frames fail!

All of them!

Get over it!

Alpha said:

Are you mad at the world or just people with a different opinion than your own?

Did a Coors light can harm you in some Way?

Since you have enough money to buy any bike made, you should buy a large quantity of valium. You need it!

Haha, This mission Iron Donut is on is worse than a Religious Jihad or Crusade. Facts and logic don't matter only the triumph of Titanium over all other materials.

Engineering and application be damned, it's the magical properties of titanium that transcend all😕

IronDonut said:

Yeah tested in the lab under ideal conditions... not in use in the real world... to fail and kill people.

Funny thing, that lab testing: all high performance aerospace bits go through it. I know they don't tell you that in the GED classes you're taking, right now, but it's true. Of course, given how little you know about materials, material science, and the physics behind it all, methinks it wouldn't do any good for anyone to get too technical with you. Hell, it probably took a few weeks for you to put that DQ curl on top of the ice cream cones just right, like your boss showed you.

alienator said:

Of course, given how little you know about materials, material science, and the physics behind it all, methinks it wouldn't do any good for anyone to get too technical with you. Hell, it probably took a few weeks for you to put that DQ curl on top of the ice cream cones just right, like your boss showed you.

Hey... easy there. Why not drop some knowledge(in lamin terms) on us all , so that everyone knows where your coming from 😕 However, you might figure that this person is not "worth" explaining the fine details of CF , Ti(there is a difference between 3/2.5 and 6/4 Ti), Al , Scandium(Geee, what ever happened w/ this material.. seems like its getting phased out 😕 ), or Steel frames. So be it.

Maybe that the problem... the more complicated something gets....... the higher likely-hood of something going wrong with it(ie. CF... I mean, come on.. its put together by humans.. from beginning to end). I know, out of the four natually occuring metals listed above ....... all things being equal(ie. DESIGN of the frame, size, etc.) .......... I'd rather ride a nice 6/4 Ti frame(not because of the weight , but due to the ride quality, no corrosion, strength, and its just as shock absorbing as Steel.. if not more so). I dont fully buy into the "you get what you pay for" mentality... however , nice 6/4 Ti. frames do command good money $$- and possibly for good reason.

Also.... he may work at DQ for all we are concerned....... but you also have to look at a persons local area in which he lives(opportunities, etc. ??) ..... not everyone has a daddy-Warbucks to then PAY for their schooling, etc. ...so that they can make a decent life for themselves ........ or if your a real man , you do it 100% on your own......... and you say F*uck the parents/family if they dont want to help you out along the way. :o

Team work fella's .......Team work 😉

Well I for one do believe that bikes made of recycled Coors Light beer cans are inferior in every aspect. Everyone who's anyone knows that Foster's cans make for a superior ride in terms of tensile strength and road feel. And they're much more fun to empty as well!! 😄

Adam-from-SLO said:

Hey... easy there. Why not drop some knowledge(in lamin terms) on us all , so that everyone knows where your coming from 😕 However, you might figure that this person is not "worth" explaining the fine details of CF , Ti(there is a difference between 3/2.5 and 6/4 Ti), Al , Scandium(Geee, what ever happened w/ this material.. seems like its getting phased out 😕 ), or Steel frames. So be it.

Why? Is Iron Donut out there with an open mind and critical thought ready to go? It seems as though all kinds of folks have chimed in, here, with reasonable arguments re: how a material is not in and of itself bad. Only designs are bad. Poorly thought out applications are bad. There is nothing in Ti that makes it intrinsically better than Al, Steel, CF, or just about any other material. Quite a few people, here, have reported re: broken Ti frames/bits. Wow! Whoda thunk that would happen to a wonder material?!
FWIW, I'm buying a Moots Ti frame this summer, not because it's Ti but because it's a well fleshed out design.

As for the rest....well.....your thoughts aren't very clear, here. Care to explain them more clearly?

Adam-from-SLO said:

Maybe that the problem... the more complicated something gets....... the higher likely-hood of something going wrong with it(ie. CF... I mean, come on.. its put together by humans.. from beginning to end). I know, out of the four natually occuring metals listed above ....... all things being equal(ie. DESIGN of the frame, size, etc.) .......... I'd rather ride a nice 6/4 Ti frame(not because of the weight , but due to the ride quality, no corrosion, strength, and its just as shock absorbing as Steel.. if not more so). I dont fully buy into the "you get what you pay for" mentality... however , nice 6/4 Ti. frames do command good money $$- and possibly for good reason.

Your argument re: CF and complication doesn't work. Can you take me to where 6/4 Ti is mined? You know, it's people that make that alloy. It's also people that draw the tubes, cut them, mitre them, and weld them together. That's less complicated? No, it's just a different method. And there is no greater likelihood of a properly designed CF failing than there is for a properly designed Ti piece. The failure modes are different, that's all. So what? That doesn't mean that Ti is necessarily better. There is no empirical "better."

Adam-from-SLO said:

Also.... he may work at DQ for all we are concerned....... but you also have to look at a persons local area in which he lives(opportunities, etc. ??) ..... not everyone has a daddy-Warbucks to then PAY for their schooling, etc. ...so that they can make a decent life for themselves ........ or if your a real man , you do it 100% on your own......... and you say F*uck the parents/family if they dont want to help you out along the way. :o Team work fella's .......Team work 😉

Team work??????? Gee, thanks, Coach....I guess. As for your comments re: college, "daddy-Warbucks," and F*uck the parents/family....what is that all about? Iron Dognut only brought invective and trolling to the table. At what point did he display any ability or interest in actual understanding? As a troll, I think everyone should feel free to insult him at their pleasure. He's certainly doing enough insulting....and doing it for no reason other than to get people worked up. Anyway, if you couldn't read the sarcasm in my DQ comments....oh well: such is the price that is paid with communication on the internet.

Adam-from-SLO said:

Hey... easy there. Why not drop some knowledge(in lamin terms) on us all , so that everyone knows where your coming from 😕 However, you might figure that this person is not "worth" explaining the fine details of CF , Ti(there is a difference between 3/2.5 and 6/4 Ti), Al , Scandium(Geee, what ever happened w/ this material.. seems like its getting phased out 😕 ), or Steel frames. So be it.

Why? Is Iron Donut out there with an open mind and critical thought ready to go? It seems as though all kinds of folks have chimed in, here, with reasonable arguments re: how a material is not in and of itself bad. Only designs are bad. Poorly thought out applications are bad. There is nothing in Ti that makes it intrinsically better than Al, Steel, CF, or just about any other material. Quite a few people, here, have reported re: broken Ti frames/bits. Wow! Whoda thunk that would happen to a wonder material?!
FWIW, I'm buying a Moots Ti frame this summer, not because it's Ti but because it's a well fleshed out design.

As for the rest....well.....your thoughts aren't very clear, here. Care to explain them more clearly?

Adam-from-SLO said:

Maybe that the problem... the more complicated something gets....... the higher likely-hood of something going wrong with it(ie. CF... I mean, come on.. its put together by humans.. from beginning to end). I know, out of the four natually occuring metals listed above ....... all things being equal(ie. DESIGN of the frame, size, etc.) .......... I'd rather ride a nice 6/4 Ti frame(not because of the weight , but due to the ride quality, no corrosion, strength, and its just as shock absorbing as Steel.. if not more so). I dont fully buy into the "you get what you pay for" mentality... however , nice 6/4 Ti. frames do command good money $$- and possibly for good reason.

Your argument re: CF and complication doesn't work. Can you take me to where 6/4 Ti is mined? You know, it's people that make that alloy. It's also people that draw the tubes, cut them, mitre them, and weld them together. That's less complicated? No, it's just a different method. And there is no greater likelihood of a properly designed CF failing than there is for a properly designed Ti piece. The failure modes are different, that's all. So what? That doesn't mean that Ti is necessarily better. There is no empirical "better."

Adam-from-SLO said:

Also.... he may work at DQ for all we are concerned....... but you also have to look at a persons local area in which he lives(opportunities, etc. ??) ..... not everyone has a daddy-Warbucks to then PAY for their schooling, etc. ...so that they can make a decent life for themselves ........ or if your a real man , you do it 100% on your own......... and you say F*uck the parents/family if they dont want to help you out along the way. :o Team work fella's .......Team work 😉

Team work??????? Gee, thanks, Coach....I guess. As for your comments re: college, "daddy-Warbucks," and F*uck the parents/family....what is that all about? Iron Dognut only brought invective and trolling to the table. At what point did he display any ability or interest in actual understanding? As a troll, I think everyone should feel free to insult him at their pleasure. He's certainly doing enough insulting....and doing it for no reason other than to get people worked up. Anyway, if you couldn't read the sarcasm in my DQ comments....oh well: such is the price that is paid with communication on the internet, where not-so-subtleties are sometimes missed.

alienator said:

Why? Is Iron Donut out there with an open mind and critical thought ready to go? It seems as though all kinds of folks have chimed in, here, with reasonable arguments re: how a material is not in and of itself bad. Only designs are bad. Poorly thought out applications are bad. There is nothing in Ti that makes it intrinsically better than Al, Steel, CF, or just about any other material. Quite a few people, here, have reported re: broken Ti frames/bits. Wow! Whoda thunk that would happen to a wonder material?!
.

Thats all I was asking for. Thanks bro :o

However, everything being equal(like I said before.... design, etc.) ...... each frame material has its own characteristics, different feel for the road, etc. ....... whether you want to believe that , or not. In which case , each material has its own marits ....... whether they be good/ or bad given different circumstances (riders syles>> sprinter vs. endurance rider).

I do own 2 CF frames(ROAD... not MTB) ... one Mono / one with CF lugs (both Euro frame builders).

I dont let posters like Iron Dognut get to me... one bit.

Maybe the problem here is that there are no Moderators on this forum..... ahhhhhhhhhhhh there is a price to be paid when there is "too much Freedom" 🙄 Yeah....... I got the DQ bit the first time >> thanks for all the great laughs

Man, what a bunch of tools. You guys should pull your angry ti riding heads out of your a**es. All the materials metioned in the above posts can be great, it's in the workmanship. There are many incredible steel, aluminium, scandium, titanium and carbon bikes out there, but even more terrible ones. Each material (when built well) will bring different ride characteristics to the table. These characteristics can be manipulated through different deesigns and fabrication methods. In conclusion, shut the $#@% up and ride your damn bikes, who cares what it's made of. It's about the ride. If never met a bunch of more retarded people than you folks. Remeber to not reproduce with your siblings as your parents did, thats called inbreding and causes the kind of mental defeciencies you are showing.

mrbakeo said:

Man, what a bunch of tools. You guys should pull your angry ti riding heads out of your a**es. All the materials metioned in the above posts can be great, it's in the workmanship. There are many incredible steel, aluminium, scandium, titanium and carbon bikes out there, but even more terrible ones. Each material (when built well) will bring different ride characteristics to the table. These characteristics can be manipulated through different deesigns and fabrication methods. In conclusion, shut the $#@% up and ride your damn bikes, who cares what it's made of. It's about the ride. If never met a bunch of more retarded people than you folks. Remeber to not reproduce with your siblings as your parents did, thats called inbreding and causes the kind of mental defeciencies you are showing.

I concur.

I care what a bike is made of... it is a free country after all 😉

"Its about the ride". No, actually its not. Its about being healthy so you can then pedal the damn bike >>> then its about your genetics , either your lean+mean ... or your not. Get fit.

**You've never met me...... thus I cannot be one of those "bunch of retarded people" that your talking about 🙂

mrbakeo said:

If never met a bunch of more retarded people than you folks. Remeber to not reproduce with your siblings as your parents did, thats called inbreding and causes the kind of mental defeciencies you are showing.

I am willing to bet that most of the posters on this thread could mate with gorillas and the offspring would have better reading comprehension than you.

wilmar13 said:

I am willing to bet that most of the posters on this thread could mate with gorillas and the offspring would have better reading comprehension than you.

Sitting here eating my banana 😄 thinking, yep, that's probably a true statement.

I am the boss and I have a bunch of little cubical humpers like yourselves doing by bidding.

I love the corporate ponsi scheme. You do all the work I make all the money.

alienator said:

Funny thing, that lab testing: all high performance aerospace bits go through it. I know they don't tell you that in the GED classes you're taking, right now, but it's true. Of course, given how little you know about materials, material science, and the physics behind it all, methinks it wouldn't do any good for anyone to get too technical with you. Hell, it probably took a few weeks for you to put that DQ curl on top of the ice cream cones just right, like your boss showed you.

IronDonut said:

I am the boss and I have a bunch of little cubical humpers like yourselves doing by bidding.

I love the corporate ponsi scheme. You do all the work I make all the money.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh
A wanna-be Puppet-Master ........ however, most people fail to realize that EVERYONE in the corperate hierarchy are simply Puppets themselves >>> helping to cut costs/create a profit >>> all for the sake of the share-holders to later cash in on(dividends, etc.). Talk about a bunch of rabid-animals 😉

If you enjoy making someone else a profit.... more power to you :o

Adam-from-SLO said:

Ahhhhhhhhhhh
A wanna-be Puppet-Master ........ however, most people fail to realize that EVERYONE in the corperate hierarchy are simply Puppets themselves >>> helping to cut costs/create a profit >>> all for the sake of the share-holders to later cash in on(dividends, etc.). Talk about a bunch of rabid-animals 😉

If you enjoy making someone else a profit.... more power to you :o

This is a bit naive of you to think a public company (i.e. most corporate environments) puts shareholders first. With rare exceptions, in a publically owned company with high margins we throw away more money in perks for upper level employees, bad processes, bureurcracy, creating useless kingdoms and politics than you can believe possible... when you can still show a 30% profit where is the motivation to increase that when the "shareholders" are satisfied? I am not saying it is a conscious decision, but things are so much more focused on profit for "shareholders" in a privately held company by far. But yeah you are totally right about one thing...everyone is still a tool, myself included. 😉

IronDonut said:

I am the boss and I have a bunch of little cubical humpers like yourselves doing by bidding.

I love the corporate ponsi scheme. You do all the work I make all the money.

(sic)

So there! (Mama, they're being mean to me again!)