Help: Atkins Diet and Training

This is a non sequitor, being diagnosed as needing cholesterol control medication and then being put
on the Atkins Diet. I infer from your remarks that you have some question about the sense of this.
You might try the Pritikin Diet instead, which is largely based on complex carbohydrates and high
fiber foods and a low fat intake.

Steve McDonald

> This is a non sequitor, being diagnosed as needing cholesterol control medication and then being
> put on the Atkins Diet. I infer from your remarks that you have some question about the sense of
> this. You might try the Pritikin Diet instead, which is largely based on complex carbohydrates and
> high fiber foods and a low fat intake.

>Steve McDonald

I thought that was strange too. If anything, I would think that the Atkins Diet would be a
splendid way to INCREASE cholestrol levels considering the heroic levels of saturated fats you can
get on that diet. I would think that if you want to lower cholestrol, going vegetarian would be
the way to go.

I am an active cyclist also. I just went on Atkins last week, but stopped because my energy level
drooped overall. My average speed dropped 2 mph. I woke up feeling like I had a sleeping pill
hangover. I only did Atkins for 5 days before I quit. Maybe if I had given it longer I may have
gotten past this.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Greg Carbonneau" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I am an active cyclist also. I just went on Atkins last week, but stopped because my energy level
> drooped overall. My average speed dropped 2 mph. I woke up feeling like I had a sleeping pill
> hangover. I only did Atkins for 5 days before I quit. Maybe if I had given it longer I may have
> gotten past this.

I think one issue with Atkins diets is that they are aimed at sedentary people, and the idea is to
give your body few carbs to burn.

Cyclists like us burn a lot of calories during our workouts. I'm no nutritionist, but you might try
modifying an Atkins diet so that you consume about as many carb calories as you burn during your
rides. This should get you back to something close to Atkins-type dieting without causing
perma-bonk.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"Steve McDonald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> This is a non sequitor, being diagnosed as needing cholesterol control medication and then
> being put on the Atkins Diet. I infer from your remarks that you have some question about the
> sense of this. You might try the Pritikin Diet instead, which is largely based on complex
> carbohydrates and high fiber foods and a low fat intake.

What makes you think that a low-fat diet leads to low blood-fat, and vice versa? How about those
Inuit types that exist primarily on fat and protein yet suffer little to know such problems?

Robin Hubert

"oldman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last week, my doctor threaten to put me on cholesterol control medication because of poor
> cholesterol profile. However, he suggested that I might try Atkin's Diet for 3 months before my
> next checkup. Atkin's diet says no/low carbo but no restriction of fat and protein.
>
> Anyone familiar with effects of Atkins diet on active cyclist? I cycled regularly (about 5
> hours/week) and take part in competitive cycling. My concerns are:
> 1. how will <20g carbo/daily (as recommended) affect my physical endurance?
> 2. how will the diet affect my strength and power?
> 3. how will it affect muscle glycogen?
> 4. effect on recovery?
>
> My profile:
> 64.5 kg, 170 cm. Resting heartrate: 48-50 bpm. Threadmill test put me in the excellent category.
> Cholesterol LDL: 205 HDL: 80 Age: 39+.
>
> I have been very strict with my diet in accordance to AHA recommendation:
> 1. < 2eggs / week
> 2. lots of fish and vegetables
> 3. no red meat
> 4. don't smoke, occasional glass of red wine (once a month?)
> 5. don't snacks on cookies, sugar, etc.
> 6. but i eat lots of carbo (pasta, rice, bread, LOTS 'cos I have big appetite)
>
> Despite(Because of?) my diet, my cholesterol is still too high.
>
>
> cheers! king young lee

Do you have any family history of heart disease? Your cholesterol is most likely being produced by
your liver...not what you eat. I was in the same boat...with 9% body fat, riding 100+ miles per
week, etc., my numbers were still bad, thanks to my poor choice of parents ;-) I also have a
significant family history (my father died at age 47...today, in fact, in '79).

Diet and exercise didn't budge my numbers, so I now take niacin to control my cholesterol. It works
great, and it's cheap - less than 7 cents per day (which is one reason you don't hear much about
it...there's no big $ in it). If you're interested in more details, email me.

I would not recommend Atkins for a cyclist. I find that I do need regular protein intake to feel
sharp when I'm exercising regularly, but I need carbs too. Other posters on this ng have been of
the opinion that Atkins is a crutch diet for couch potatoes, and that it's inappropriate for
active folks.

BTW, recent studies indicate that the health effect of drinking alcohol (including wine), are most
apparent with regular daily consumption. So, drink more wine!

GG

In article <[email protected]>, Pbwalther wrote:
> I thought that was strange too. If anything, I would think that the Atkins Diet would be a
> splendid way to INCREASE cholestrol levels considering the heroic levels of saturated fats you can
> get on that diet. I would think that if you want to lower cholestrol, going vegetarian would be
> the way to go.

Strangely, there are people out there that swear that Atkins can lower your cholestrol. There are
legions of them, actually. And I guess it has worked for some people, although my guess is that this
is more of a testament to what they ate before (lots of simple carbs, sugars and fast food, I
imagine) than to what they're eating now. Even vegetarians can get themselves in trouble if they
become white bread, peanut butter and cheese vegetarians.

I'm a vegetarian. Lost 150lbs. this way and my cholestrol is around 120. Resting heart rate 60 and
my blood pressure something like 117/78. So obviously I'm a proponent of vegetarianism, but I think
that the first key is actually getting rid of simple carbs and sugars.

Preston

It seems strange to me that someone would recommend the Atkins diet if your cholesterol is too high.
On the other hand I have been on a diet using Atkins principals, combined with Weight Watchers and
lost 50 lb. and dropped my BP about thirty points in 6 mos. I also started cycling about 50 miles a
week. I am now down to just moderately overweight. A low carb diet, combined with calorie moderation
and exercize was what I needed to lose weight. Low carb did not work by itself, nor did low cal. At
the risk of large flames, I will say that for me Carbs are like poison when it comes to weight
control. I cannot comment on cholesterol except to say that Atkins did not increase mine, and mine
has always been low. Remember, Your Mileage may vary. HTH.

Good luck, Ernie

Preston Crawford wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Pbwalther wrote:
> > I thought that was strange too. If anything, I would think that the Atkins Diet would be a
> > splendid way to INCREASE cholestrol levels considering the heroic levels of saturated fats you
> > can get on that diet. I would think that if you want to lower cholestrol, going vegetarian would
> > be the way to go.
>
> Strangely, there are people out there that swear that Atkins can lower your cholestrol. There are
> legions of them, actually. And I guess it has worked for some people, although my guess is that
> this is more of a testament to what they ate before (lots of simple carbs, sugars and fast food, I
> imagine) than to what they're eating now. Even vegetarians can get themselves in trouble if they
> become white bread, peanut butter and cheese vegetarians.
>
> I'm a vegetarian. Lost 150lbs. this way and my cholestrol is around 120. Resting heart rate 60 and
> my blood pressure something like 117/78. So obviously I'm a proponent of vegetarianism, but I
> think that the first key is actually getting rid of simple carbs and sugars.
>
> Preston

In article <[email protected]>, Preston Crawford
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Strangely, there are people out there that swear that Atkins can lower your cholestrol. There are
>legions of them, actually. And I guess it has worked for some people, although my guess is that
>this is more of a testament to what they ate before (lots of simple carbs, sugars and fast food, I
>imagine) than to what they're eating now.

Perhaps also because low-carb dieting is often done to reduce body fat, and reduction of body fat
tends to have favorable effects on blood cholesterol?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is
provided with this message.

[email protected] (Steve McDonald) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> This is a non sequitor, being diagnosed as needing cholesterol control medication and then being
> put on the Atkins Diet. I infer from your remarks that you have some question about the sense of
> this. You might try the Pritikin Diet instead, which is largely based on complex carbohydrates and
> high fiber foods and a low fat intake.
>
> Steve McDonald

Yes, that's precisely why Dr. Atkins drew much flaks from the AHA with his counter-intuitive
recommendation. I am NOT seeking an answer to whether it is right or wrong but I am more interested
in the impact on my endurance, power, and muscle loss. For the logic behind Atkin's Diet, you can go
to www.atkinscenter.com.

FWIW, I have been on a largely high fiber complex carb diet and VERY LOW fat diet for very long and
my cholesterol did not go down at all. Basing on AHA recommendation, my diet consisting of mostly
fish, skinless chicken breast, whole grains, tofu, pasta, olive oil, milk, oatmeal and yoghurt. I
should give have excellent cholesterol reading! I have no need to lose any weight since my measured
bodyfat is about 11%-13% depending on which method I used.

cheers! [email protected]

"Gary German" <gary_g@charter_NOSPAM_.net> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Do you have any family history of heart disease? Your cholesterol is most likely being produced by
> your liver...not what you eat. I was in the same boat...with 9% body fat, riding 100+ miles per
> week, etc., my numbers were still bad, thanks to my poor choice of parents ;-) I also have a
> significant family history (my father died at age 47...today, in fact, in '79).
>
> Diet and exercise didn't budge my numbers, so I now take niacin to control my cholesterol. It
> works great, and it's cheap - less than 7 cents per day (which is one reason you don't hear much
> about it...there's no big $ in it). If you're interested in more details, email me.
>
> I would not recommend Atkins for a cyclist. I find that I do need regular protein intake to feel
> sharp when I'm exercising regularly, but I need carbs too. Other posters on this ng have been of
> the opinion that Atkins is a crutch diet for couch potatoes, and that it's inappropriate for
> active folks.
>
> BTW, recent studies indicate that the health effect of drinking alcohol (including wine), are most
> apparent with regular daily consumption. So, drink more wine!
>
> GG

Yes, my family history is suspect. Mom has hypertension, dad had a stroke and I am very sure my high
cholesterol is hereditary BUT I still need to control it. I think I'm going to be less strict with
my diet and put some fat in to replace the high carb. But there's really no time to experiment 'cos
racing season is here, sigh...

From feedback I get so far in this NG and direct email (thanks to all), Atkins looks like a
bad choice.

I am aware of the recent studies on alcohol (esp. red wine) and CV health. That's my excuse for red
wine but red wine daily is too expensive and time consuming for me.

cheers! Oldman

[email protected] (oldman) wrote:

>Anyone familiar with effects of Atkins diet on active cyclist?

I once went on the Atkins diet along with my wife. I really only needed to lose 5 pounds
(2.3kg) or so, but had to prove to myself that you could actually lose weight while eating lots
of fat and meat.

I DID lose the weight, and pretty quickly. I continued to ride about 200 miles a week, and that went
fine for a week or two. Then one day I was about 10 miles into a ride and BLAM. No energy. Total
bonk. I crawled home at a much-reduced pace.

The next day was the same way - I could go 6-10 miles before "hitting the wall". I figured out that
half a candy bar would extend the mileage to about 20 miles (32km) before running out of gas.

I started eating normally again - I had lost the weight I thought I should, and there was NO way I
was going to be able to train at a reasonable level while on the diet.

Others may have a different experience though - if your fat stores are greater, or your riding
intensity is less than mine, you may not experience the same thing... but I'd still seriously
recommend not planning any really long rides while on the Atkins diet.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

I have been interested in cholesterol lately (genetic predisposition) and have read a bit here and
there. I have read that your blood cholesterol level is primarily controlled by genetic factors.
Apparently, 90% of cholesterol originates in the liver as part of our normal body function. Dietary
changes have very little effect on overall choesterol levels. So even though you may change your
diet radically it's no guarantee that your choesterol will return to "normal" levels. Which I find
disappointing. You can alter your ratio of good and bad cholesterol with diet, but it may be very
difficult to get a normal cholesterol level from diet.

I think you can build muscle fine on a predominantly protein-based diet. However, for competitive
events, it's always been my understanding that carbs are the easiest/fastest fuel for muscles to
convert to energy. You could train fine on a protein-diet but you will probably not have the
endurance you would normally get if you were to load up on carbs before a ride or during a ride.
Sugar is the most extreme example of this, providing a great deal of instant energy and being almost
entirely a carbohydrate.

Cheers,

Scott..
--
Scott Anderson

"oldman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Yes, that's precisely why Dr. Atkins drew much flaks from the AHA with his counter-intuitive
> recommendation. I am NOT seeking an answer to whether it is right or wrong but I am more
> interested in the impact on my endurance, power, and muscle loss. For the logic behind Atkin's
> Diet, you can go to www.atkinscenter.com.
>
> FWIW, I have been on a largely high fiber complex carb diet and VERY LOW fat diet for very long
> and my cholesterol did not go down at all. Basing on AHA recommendation, my diet consisting of
> mostly fish, skinless chicken breast, whole grains, tofu, pasta, olive oil, milk, oatmeal and
> yoghurt. I should give have excellent cholesterol reading! I have no need to lose any weight since
> my measured bodyfat is about 11%-13% depending on which method I used.
>
> cheers! [email protected]

Hi,

I am 23, 90-95kg, 180cm, RHR ~60bpm. I ride daily (generally 50k/day), run 5k two nights a
week, swim 300-1000m some days, 60k bunch ride on Sat 40min race Sun (often ride 20+k's to and
from circuit)

I have a massive appetite. I eat lots of simple sugars - I love lollies and chocolate. I also eat a
reasonable amount of carbs in the form of toast for breakfast, pasta/rice/vegies for lunch, pasta
or rice or potato often with vegies for dinner. My gf is a vegetarian so I only eat meat when I
forget my lunch and have to buy it or when we go to a restaraunt for dinner maybe once or twice a
week. 1 or 2 coke cans during the day or a hot chocolate/milo. I don't add oil, salt to foods. I
had a highish blood pressure reading a couple of years ago but that went away. I think I need to
lose some weight. I get dropped on Thursday night's hilly bunch ride and the guys I run with are
all faster than me.

How do I work out my optimum weight? What about if I am solidly built? I'm definately more of a
sprinter than a hill-climber. Is it simply a matter of reducing my overall intake to lose weight or
is there a specific focus I could concentrate on? How do you all stop pigging out after a big ride?
I often get home after a big ride and eat everything in site... which doesn't help the situation.
Does eating a meal before riding reduce the desire to eat loads after the ride? I always leave for
work with an empty stomach and before bunch rides and races will only have a fruit bar and a drink.

Thanks for any suggestions, hip

"Robin Hubert" . wrote > What makes you think that a low-fat diet leads to low blood-fat, and vice
> versa? How about those Inuit types that exist primarily on fat and protein yet suffer little to
> know such problems?
>
> Robin Hubert
Aye, that is true but, when introduced(i.e. sold) snowmobiles, televisions, rifles, housetrailers,
refrigeratators and LP gas. They caught up, in spades. Len

In article <[email protected]>,
"hippy" <[email protected]> writes:

> How do I work out my optimum weight?

Probably the best answer would be to check with a qualified medical professional. Maybe a
sports-oriented one would be best.

> What about if I am solidly built? I'm definately more of a sprinter than a hill-climber. Is it
> simply a matter of reducing my overall intake to lose weight or is there a specific focus I could
> concentrate on?

You might think about cutting down on all those refined carbs. <chuckle> ... who am I to talk? I've
got a weakness for bakery confections like cookies, napoleon, cookies, Nanaimo bar, cookies,
eclairs, cookies, eccles cakes ... did I mention cookies? But I also enjoy other, less
[artificially] sugared snacks, like smoked almonds, or fresh raspberries, or trail mix. There are
all kinds of delicious options.

I also like to make my own snacks (pretty good date-nut loaf, if I do say so myself), because I have
some control over what goes into them -- less granular white sugar/more honey, and so on. I make
good raisin scones, too.

> How do you all stop pigging out after a big ride?

I usually just have a nice cup of tea (a wee drop of milk in first, no sugar) before sitting down to
a meal or large snack. I like to "unwind" a bit before eating. Maybe it gives my body a chance to
decide just how hungry it really
is. Or isn't.

> I often get home after a big ride and eat everything in site... which doesn't help the situation.
> Does eating a meal before riding reduce the desire to eat loads after the ride?

Eating too much before riding just makes me logy -- especially if it's super rich food that
too-much-of tends to give people the gout. I find for myself it's best to start out after a light
but balanced meal, and then pick & snack while en route. But that's just me -- your milage may vary.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

By coincidence, as I ride the Web and watch the local TV news on my PIP, they are showing their
"Health-Watch" segment, featuring the Atkins Diet. They show numerous interviews with those who are
using or have previously tried this diet. Some educated nutritionists are also interviewed. The
concensus is that many who use it, experience a 5 to 10-lb. weight loss in the first few weeks,
mostly from reduced water and fiber in their systems. Then, most of them feel weak and slow down
their activities, soon drifting back to their old eating habits or trying some other sort of diet.

I went through the full routine wih this diet, some time ago. Then, ending up after a month
with no benefit and having spent a lot of money on the more expensive foods prescribed by it, I
discovered Nathan Pritikin's dietary formula, which is almost an exact opposite of the Atkins
Diet. I developed my own version of it, which calls for lots of foods with complex
carbohydrates and fiber, moderate amounts of protein, low fat and very little simple
carbohydrates. Whole-wheat pasta, beans and peas, fish, skinless poultry, fresh fruits and raw
or steamed vegetables are the main foods I eat. It's important to understand the great
difference between slow-digesting complex carbohydrates and quickly absorbed simple
carbohydrates, as they affect your energy and fat-storing potential. I can follow this diet
indefinitely, feel full and satisfied and can easily lose weight in a painless, although slow
way. I also have lots of energy and have no problem with completing a hard workout, even if I'm
gradually losing weight. Wholegrain rice, wheat and oats provide much better fiber and vitamins
than refined grain products and they digest more slowly and enhance the sustained energy effect
you get from their complex carbohydrates. White rice and bread made from refined flour break
down and digest very quickly and don't give much in the way of energy over the whole day. My
entire diet plan is 15 typed pages long and this is just the very short version. By the way, my
diet costs much less than what I ate in the old days. Why do I have to lose weight, if my diet
plan is so good? Because at times, I just eat too much of it-----I should say, way too much.
But, if I stay even close to my daily maintenance amount of calories, I don't gain weight,
especially when I ride a lot and cover several miles on foot every day. I generally weigh 40
lbs. less than before I started eating this way. Cut out the extra salt in your diet and lose 3
to 5 ugly and sluggish pounds, mostly of retained water, in 3 days.

Steve McDonald

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Last week, my doctor threaten to put me on cholesterol control medication because of poor
> cholesterol profile. However, he suggested that I might try Atkin's Diet for 3 months before my
> next checkup. Atkin's diet says no/low carbo but no restriction of fat and protein.
>
> Anyone familiar with effects of Atkins diet on active cyclist?

It makes people hate you because you are so much faster than they are and it makes oyu lonely
because you are always dropping the pack.

> I cycled regularly (about 5 hours/week) and take part in competitive cycling. My concerns are:
> 1. how will <20g carbo/daily (as recommended) affect my physical endurance?

I don't know but dropping 60 pounds that way helped mine.

> 2. how will the diet affect my strength and power?
> 3. how will it affect muscle glycogen?
> 4. effect on recovery?
>
> My profile:
> 64.5 kg, 170 cm. Resting heartrate: 48-50 bpm. Threadmill test put me in the excellent category.
> Cholesterol LDL: 205 HDL: 80 Age: 39+.
>
> I have been very strict with my diet in accordance to AHA recommendation:
> 1. < 2eggs / week
> 2. lots of fish and vegetables
> 3. no red meat
> 4. don't smoke, occasional glass of red wine (once a month?)
> 5. don't snacks on cookies, sugar, etc.
> 6. but i eat lots of carbo (pasta, rice, bread, LOTS 'cos I have big appetite)
>
> Despite(Because of?) my diet, my cholesterol is still too high.
>

Well that's because cholesterol in your blood is only stored there because you eat all those carbs.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> [email protected] (oldman) wrote:
>
> >Anyone familiar with effects of Atkins diet on active cyclist?
>
> I once went on the Atkins diet along with my wife. I really only needed to lose 5 pounds (2.3kg)
> or so, but had to prove to myself that you could actually lose weight while eating lots of fat
> and meat.
>
> I DID lose the weight, and pretty quickly. I continued to ride about 200 miles a week, and that
> went fine for a week or two. Then one day I was about 10 miles into a ride and BLAM. No energy.
> Total bonk. I crawled home at a much-reduced pace.
>
> The next day was the same way - I could go 6-10 miles before "hitting the wall". I figured out
> that half a candy bar would extend the mileage to about 20 miles (32km) before running out of gas.

Someone following the atkins plan and eating a candy bar to gain energy is analogous to an
amphetamine addict trying to quit and using caffeine pills to get over the mid afternoon crash.
What you should eat is some beef jerky or almonds, something with protein and/or fat but not
carbs. At that point in the diet your body is running on protein and fat not straight glucose.
Once you break that barrier in the first week that switches your body over to burning fat for fuel
instead of waiting for constant sugar supply, sugar can actually give you a hang over just like
you had been drinking all night, which is why it's so easy to stop eating it once you get through
the initial withdrawal. I never read the Atkins book, I have a feeling it is really short on
technical information because people who have read it seem to be unaware as to why it works. I
recommend "Protein Power", http://www.eatprotein.com/, it adequately explains the biology behind
the whole thing and the doctors that wrote it have been using the plan in their own practice for
many years before it even started to become widely known (again), they aren't just trying to sell
$3.00 bars to Oprah.

> Others may have a different experience though - if your fat stores are greater, or your riding
> intensity is less than mine, you may not experience the same thing... but I'd still seriously
> recommend not planning any really long rides while on the Atkins diet.
>

Oh man when I had serious fat stores I could do some serious mileage with no food at all and lost up
to 6 pounds a week. Now I actually have to eat that beef jerky or have 4 or 5 eggs before going out.
The whole reason I started the diet was that I bombed like you did on a 60km off road ride and was
absolutely delirious, that happened because I ran out of cliff bars about 2 hours before. I don't
remember exactly how I happened to come across "Protein Power", but I'm pretty sure it was someone
in this group that told me about it when I asked what to do about being limited by how many bars I
could carry. In 6 months I went from the slowest in the pack to the fastest by a large margin, lost
60 lbs. and 6" off my waist and I lost 25 of those pounds over the winter months when I wasn't even
putting in any significant miles. 3 years later I'm still 175lbs., down from 235lbs. I will be
between 165 and 172lbs. all summer once this friggin snow melts and then go back to 175 again in the
fall just like clockwork. This is because, as the book explains, you have a predesignated weight you
would be at if you were say, an Eskimo in the 1800s, eating nothing but meat and completely free of
processed carbohydrates. You'll lose a few pounds more as a result of constant strenuous exercise
burning more calories than you consume, but as soon as you stop you won't balloon up unless you get
into the carbs again because your body will simply not store the excess calories. This is also the
reason behind the high incidence of Type II diabetes today, especially in native peoples. We
European descendants have been eating **** long enough to have killed off a lot of the family lines
prone to diabetes but natives haven't had the time and the numbers for that to happen.

--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com