Legalized draft

It says this where?

"Harold Buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just spotted this on the USAT website: effective June 1, all USAT
> age-group events will be draft-legal. They said something about wanting
> a larger pool of people with drafting experience to draw from for the US
> Olympic team. It will be interesting to see how this turns out; I think
> a lot of races will renounce their USAT affiliation.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

What's the date today again?

Mark wrote:

> It says this where?
>
> "Harold Buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I just spotted this on the USAT website: effective June 1, all USAT
> > age-group events will be draft-legal. They said something about
> > wanting a larger pool of people with drafting experience to draw
> > from for the US Olympic team. It will be interesting to see how
> > this turns out; I think a lot of races will renounce their USAT
> > affiliation.
> >
> > --Harold Buck
> >
> >
> > "I used to rock and roll all night,
> > and party every day.
> > Then it was every other day. . . ."
> > -Homer J. Simpson

I thought that as well, however, I thought that would have to be the lamest
April Fool's joke ever. Plus it was posted after the "12 deadline". At least
from where I sit it was.
M~

"Steve Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What's the date today again?
>
> Mark wrote:
>
>> It says this where?
>>
>> "Harold Buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > I just spotted this on the USAT website: effective June 1, all USAT
>> > age-group events will be draft-legal. They said something about
>> > wanting a larger pool of people with drafting experience to draw
>> > from for the US Olympic team. It will be interesting to see how
>> > this turns out; I think a lot of races will renounce their USAT
>> > affiliation.
>> >
>> > --Harold Buck
>> >
>> >
>> > "I used to rock and roll all night,
>> > and party every day.
>> > Then it was every other day. . . ."
>> > -Homer J. Simpson
>

A classic, Harold.


Harold Buck <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I just spotted this on the USAT website: effective June 1, all USAT
> age-group events will be draft-legal. They said something about
> wanting a larger pool of people with drafting experience to draw from
> for the US Olympic team. It will be interesting to see how this turns
> out; I think a lot of races will renounce their USAT affiliation.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck <[email protected]> wrote in news:no_one_knows-
[email protected]:

> I just spotted this on the USAT website: effective June 1, all USAT
> age-group events will be draft-legal. They said something about wanting
> a larger pool of people with drafting experience to draw from for the US
> Olympic team. It will be interesting to see how this turns out; I think
> a lot of races will renounce their USAT affiliation.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

That was pretty good. . . It reminds me however that everytime I hear about
drafting being accepted I think that the next thing some would want would
be to use flippers on the swim.
Dale


--
Take out my bike to e-mail.

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:25:51 -0500, Dale <[email protected]>
wrote:

Harold Buck <[email protected]> wrote in news:no_one_knows-
[email protected]:

> I just spotted this on the USAT website: effective June 1, all USAT
> age-group events will be draft-legal. They said something about wanting
> a larger pool of people with drafting experience to draw from for the US
> Olympic team. It will be interesting to see how this turns out; I think
> a lot of races will renounce their USAT affiliation.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

That was pretty good. . . It reminds me however that everytime I hear
about
drafting being accepted I think that the next thing some would want
would
be to use flippers on the swim.
Dale


You're comparing apples and oranges. Drafting is a very natural and
logical result of a large group traveling in close proximity to one
another. Birds flying through the air in a flock practice a form of
drafting, but when was the last time you saw them start strapping on
extra wings?

In article <[email protected]>,
Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:

> You're comparing apples and oranges. Drafting is a very natural and
> logical result of a large group traveling in close proximity to one
> another. Birds flying through the air in a flock practice a form of
> drafting, but when was the last time you saw them start strapping on
> extra wings?


It depends on how you look at it. Another way of looking at it is that
people who want to use flippers or who want to draft are both looking
for a way to get through the race with less overall effort.

My thought: if you really want to allow drafting, put the bike first so
that everyone starts out on equal footing (instead of allowing a pack to
negate the lead someone worked so hard to get on the swim). But this
will never happen, for a number of reasons (safety in both the swim and
the bike being the most important factors).

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You're comparing apples and oranges. Drafting is a very natural and
>> logical result of a large group traveling in close proximity to one
>> another. Birds flying through the air in a flock practice a form of
>> drafting, but when was the last time you saw them start strapping on
>> extra wings?
>
>
> It depends on how you look at it. Another way of looking at it is that
> people who want to use flippers or who want to draft are both looking
> for a way to get through the race with less overall effort.
>
> My thought: if you really want to allow drafting, put the bike first
> so that everyone starts out on equal footing (instead of allowing a
> pack to negate the lead someone worked so hard to get on the swim).
> But this will never happen, for a number of reasons (safety in both
> the swim and the bike being the most important factors).
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

And not to pile on but, if the point of drafting is not to make the
event easier or put another way less of an individual sport and more of
a team challenge then why do we not see the same tightly packed groups
of runners? Would that "naturally occuring" tight group not occur on the
run as well? Dale

In article <[email protected]>,
epson <[email protected]> wrote:

> And not to pile on but, if the point of drafting is not to make the
> event easier or put another way less of an individual sport and more of
> a team challenge then why do we not see the same tightly packed groups
> of runners? Would that "naturally occuring" tight group not occur on the
> run as well?


I guess I'm not sure what point you're making here. Air resistance is
not a factor in running, but it is in biking, so running in a big group
doesn't really save you energy (unless there's a strong headwind, in
which case you do see people draft).

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck <[email protected]> wrote in news:no_one_knows-
[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> epson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> And not to pile on but, if the point of drafting is not to make the
>> event easier or put another way less of an individual sport and more of
>> a team challenge then why do we not see the same tightly packed groups
>> of runners? Would that "naturally occuring" tight group not occur on the
>> run as well?
>
>
> I guess I'm not sure what point you're making here. Air resistance is
> not a factor in running, but it is in biking, so running in a big group
> doesn't really save you energy (unless there's a strong headwind, in
> which case you do see people draft).
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson
>

Well, actually that was my point. I guess I was trying to say that the
tightly packed groups of bikes were not naturally occuring and logical as
Radioactive man asserted. That they only occured because it made the ride
easier. And IF they occured naturally on the bike then why not on the run.

Great tag like by the way. I can relate.
Dale

Harold Buck wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>You're comparing apples and oranges. Drafting is a very natural and
>>logical result of a large group traveling in close proximity to one
>>another. Birds flying through the air in a flock practice a form of
>>drafting, but when was the last time you saw them start strapping on
>>extra wings?
>
>
>
> It depends on how you look at it. Another way of looking at it is that
> people who want to use flippers or who want to draft are both looking
> for a way to get through the race with less overall effort.
>
> My thought: if you really want to allow drafting, put the bike first so
> that everyone starts out on equal footing (instead of allowing a pack to
> negate the lead someone worked so hard to get on the swim). But this
> will never happen, for a number of reasons (safety in both the swim and
> the bike being the most important factors).
>
> --Harold Buck


Hi Harold,
My personal opinion: drafting causes triathlon to change from an
individual sport to a group sport. Personally, I like to occasionally
hang out with others during a ride, but I prefer the sport remain an
individual effort. Go ahead and have draft legal races, as long as
non-draft races remain dominant.

"epson" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...

> Well, actually that was my point. I guess I was trying to say that the
> tightly packed groups of bikes were not naturally occuring and logical as
> Radioactive man asserted. That they only occured because it made the ride
> easier. And IF they occured naturally on the bike then why not on the run.

Biking in packed groups IS the natural way to bike.

If one wants to go as fast as possible from point A to point B with a bike,
he drafts.

I made my first draft-legal race (duathlon - waiting for the water to warm
up!) last week, and this was such a pleasure!

No permanent suspicion of cheating, no accusation, no risk of being unfairly
disqualified: simply go as fast as you can to the finish line!

This was such a relief from my other draft-illegal races...

There is a virtue in making the rules as stupid simple and straightforward
as possible: take your bike and go as fast as possible is the best rule. No
more endless discussions on who drafted and who didn't.

And don't believe the race was easier: it was much faster that a draft
illegal race, I needed sometime to switch to anaerobic mode / explosive
strength (to stick to the pack), and I can guaranty you that if you try to
follow people faster than you are, you will find it very difficult. Almost
all bike road races are draft legal, and Armstrong and the likes are not too
shabby!

And the argument that it is a disadvantage for good swimmers doesn't hold.
One can argue that a good swimmer will have his advantage cancelled when the
biker pack will pass him, but conversely, one can argue that only good
swimmers will be able to catch the right pack.

Keep triathlon simple.

Legalize draft!

-- Olivier

In article <[email protected]>,
"Silver0l" <[email protected]> wrote:

> And the argument that it is a disadvantage for good swimmers doesn't hold.
> One can argue that a good swimmer will have his advantage cancelled when the
> biker pack will pass him, but conversely, one can argue that only good
> swimmers will be able to catch the right pack.
>

So, the fact that bad swimmers and good swimmers can both potentially
get screwed makes it fair? Didn't your momma ever tell you two wrongs
don't make a right?

I'm sorry, but I think if I can swim the course one minute faster than
you can and our cycling and running skills and conditioning are exactly
the same, I should beat you by one minute, not lose because you caught
up to me--and got to rest while doing it--by riding in a peloton.

Drafting is great--for road cycling races. Let's leave it there.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> What does this mean? Does one group beat another group? I've heard of
> team sports -- that;s where a team can beat another team. What is a
> group sport?
>
> JT
>

It's a sport where a bunch of folks race together until the last minute,
then see who can outsprint the rest!

Tom

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:11:03 GMT, Triathlete
<[email protected]> wrote:

>drafting causes triathlon to change from an
>individual sport to a group sport.

What does this mean? Does one group beat another group? I've heard of
team sports -- that;s where a team can beat another team. What is a
group sport?

JT

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"Harold Buck" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Silver0l" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > And the argument that it is a disadvantage for good swimmers doesn't
hold.
> > One can argue that a good swimmer will have his advantage cancelled when
the
> > biker pack will pass him, but conversely, one can argue that only good
> > swimmers will be able to catch the right pack.
> >
>
> So, the fact that bad swimmers and good swimmers can both potentially
> get screwed makes it fair? Didn't your momma ever tell you two wrongs
> don't make a right?


Did you look at the Olympics. Do you question the value of the athletes
here?

The fact that bad swimmers and good swimmers can both potentially get
screwed just mean that nobody get screwed. The rule is just different. You
have to swim fast, get in the right pack, and hold your place in it.


I can tell you when I got screwed.

This is when draft was declared illegal, and when I got passed by numerous
bike packs. You get screwed when somebody takes an unfair, illegal advantage
to beat you.

Illegal drafting is what is happening in real life, every time, everywhere.

And this is what is making people bitter, and ruins the good spirit in so
many triathlons.


Legalizing drafting is the only way to solve the problem.


-- Olivier

2cts worth....

I'm a swimmer tri'er - and follow Harolds point about if cycling were
first. Equally in theory we could choose to draft and hold back in the
open water swim and have an energy reserve for the bike over the better
biker, poorer swimmer.

I have done one draft legal race in Sweden - and throughly enjoyed it.
In practice you still race hard. You dont rest all the way round unless
you are one of the best in the race anyway.

You can draft in open water swimming, road biking, F1, MotoGP, running
to some extent.

Some sports are not draft practical - pole vault )

Enter draft races if you want drafting and not if you dont.

Personally though overall I think its an individual thing and should be
done on your own.

"Silver0l" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Did you look at the Olympics. Do you question the value of the athletes
>here?

I was there for the 2000 Olypic triathlons in Sydney.

Bloody boring, "non-events" that consisted of a swim, a rambling pack
ride by anyone who had a decent swim leg that served as nothing more
than a warm-up for the "real event", a 10k run.

The only thing that made the bike portion worthwhile at all was the
fact that the women seemed to crash a lot (not that I like them
crashing, but at least it would wake you up as a spectator).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

"Silver0l" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Illegal drafting is what is happening in real life, every time,
> everywhere.
>
> And this is what is making people bitter, and ruins the good spirit in so
> many triathlons.
>
> Legalizing drafting is the only way to solve the problem.
>
> -- Olivier


Ohhh. I get it now. Since "everyone" is breaking the rules, we should
change the rules so "everyone" can be happier. What splendid logic.

(sarcasm intended)

John